Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #5

[HongKongPhooey]

I hope so or set up a charity in Norahs memory.

It's Nora

 

[Liming]

Oh, I interpreted it as being a school for multiple disabilities.
I have never heard of physical therapy or occupational therapy being necessarily for LD students. Imo

Moderate diabilties in the UK re schooling would include those who have Downs syndrome, autism and so on but are capable in some areas.

Severe learning difficulties would mean a special unit, because they can do absolutely nothing for themselves or what they can do is very limited, or they may have very severe behavioral issues
Some may need 1 to 1 /2 to 1 because they may harm others or themselves.

 

[SuperTmo]

I have been following this case since the first news reports of her disappearance.
At no time did her mother state mild learning difficulties.As HKP wrote it was her French grandfather and that could have been a translation confusion.
I think her parents would be totally honest when describing Nora's abilities to the Malaysian police and rescue team.

I didn’t say she was quoted as saying mild. I was referring to her first statement and being quoted in general. You mentioned reasons the quote might be wrong and I addressed those. Sorry for the confusion!

 

[SuperTmo]

Does anyone know if the road the motorcyclist was on leads up to the top of the waterfall? If the motorcyclist was close enough to see that Nora was white, I would expect he was close enough for Nora to hear the bike and know she was near a road and to make her way there. And maybe head off in the wrong direction hoping the road took her to the lodge. I’m wondering if she actually walked along paths/roads and found herself above the waterfall where there is an easier route down. And was unlucky that none of the searchers saw her as they were all ploughing through the forest. And she may have hidden from big groups of men dressed like soldiers.

After reaching the waterfall, she might have tried to find her way down the river back to the lodge as I think she did know that the waterfall was above the lodge. And that’s when she got so lost.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if some local people did see her but were too frightened to approach her. Or waited to find a woman, but by then she had run off. If I saw a distressed naked girl, I think I’d assume she had been sexually assaulted. Reading the article about the lost children in 2015 it would seem that indigenous people are oppressed in Malaysia. So if someone did see her they might be scared to get involved for fear of being blamed. Particularly if the parents had been saying they thought she had been abducted.

Whatever happened, it is just so sad. I can’t stop imagining her as darkness fell each evening and her terror at being alone in such an unfamiliar place. And then the pain she endured. I hope she also experienced something beautiful from time to time that gave her a short reprieve from her fear and confusion.

Really good points! Given how convoluted this story is I wouldn’t blame anyone for being hesitant to approach her. Maybe that is why a whole hiking group went together when she was found. So nobody could find themselves being blamed.

 

[SuperTmo]

I believe the ones from the Grandpa.




My daughter has a grandparent who describes her as having “a little bit of Down syndrome.”

If you want an accurate picture of a child with special needs you go to their parent or caregiver that interacts with them daily.

Well, yes of course you would. But when you pair grandpa’s statement with the mom’s statement on the first or second day of, “she looks younger, she can’t take care of herself, and she won’t understand what’s going on,” that sounds quite mild to me... The onus is on the parents to be forthcoming with that info. What mom said matches with a mild issue, and frankly could describe ANY teen lost in a jungle in a foreign country.

 

[SuperTmo]

Maybe the ones that described her as having mild disabilities.
Holoprosencephaly is not normally a mild condition. Imo

Some people are only mildly impacted by it. There is a huge range in the severity. The least severe ones are barely impacted.

 

[SuperTmo]

DBM

 

[Liming]

Anyway intelligence can be interpreted in many ways, I lost my car in the super market car park, "Oh dear, where is the car?" Little one [Downs syndrome ]who was completely none verbal at the time immediately points and there was my car! I was astounded she remembered but her abilities were better than mine at this moment . I am somewhat dyslexic etc

 

[SuperTmo]

I'm sorry, I don't know how else to help you understand. I have tried to explain this many times.
Her grandfather was the one who said he would describe her as having mild disabilities.

People who don't understand the specific classifications don't always use the right terminology.

A long time ago, when I first started working with Special Needs students, my boyfriend's grandmother asked me if my students were "morons." (She later became my grandmother in law)
Many years ago this was the term for people with disabilities.
This was in the middle of a big family dinner so it was one of those moments you never forget.

But she just did not know the proper terminology, so I patiently explained what the proper terms were. (although my husband and I laughed about it for years later)

So it could be that the extended family just doesn't know the proper terms to describe her disabilities.
It's just not really significant. Imo

You don’t need to make me understand anything. Again, I was not referring to the grandpa or the word mild, just the statement from the mom about how she looks younger and whatnot. Mom’s chance to talk about Nora’s condition and she left out all of the most important stuff.

I’m capable of understanding on my own, thank you. I’ve worked as a paraeducator in our ALC class for special needs students. Based on what we know about Nora’s abilities she would not have been considered moderately disabled physically at our school.

I get what you are trying to say, that the mom didn’t leave out info about Nora’s health that was critical, and that you believe she was moderately to severely disabled but I guess I disagree with you and that is ok.

Here is a great link on this condition and I’ve mentioned the part that describes the wide range of severity:

“In most cases of holoprosencephaly, the malformations are so severe that babies die before birth. In less severe cases, babies are born with normal or near-normal brain development and facial deformities that may affect the eyes, nose and upper lip.”

About Holoprosencephaly

 

[SuperTmo]

Oh, I interpreted it as being a school for multiple disabilities.
I have never heard of physical therapy or occupational therapy being necessarily for LD students. Imo

Our school has one of the two sped programs in our district and we have two OT’s and two PT’s on staff. Kids with ADHD do get OT (to help them with things like fidgets to keep hands busy, or in the case of one boy to keep him doing stuff like chewing his shirts and some PT (to help them get some energy out between recesses). But I’m not sure how normal that is. We are lucky to have two OT’s and PT’s at a school with only ~30 sped students.

 

[MsBetsy]

You don’t need to make me understand anything. Again, I was not referring to the grandpa or the word mild, just the statement from the mom about how she looks younger and whatnot. Mom’s chance to talk about Nora’s condition and she left out all of the most important stuff.

I’m capable of understanding on my own, thank you. I’ve worked as a paraeducator in our ALC class for special needs students. Based on what we know about Nora’s abilities she would not have been considered moderately disabled physically at our school.

I get what you are trying to say, that the mom didn’t leave out info about Nora’s health that was critical, and that you believe she was moderately to severely disabled but I guess I disagree with you and that is ok.

Here is a great link on this condition and I’ve mentioned the part that describes the wide range of severity:

“In most cases of holoprosencephaly, the malformations are so severe that babies die before birth. In less severe cases, babies are born with normal or near-normal brain development and facial deformities that may affect the eyes, nose and upper lip.”

About Holoprosencephaly

I meant your question about why Nora's mother "didn't just lay it out bare from the start."
She was not the one who said she had a mild disability in the first place.

 

[Skigh]

I really am not sure why there are all the discussions about the level of Nora's disabilities.
What point are people trying to make?

 

[SuperTmo]

I really am not sure why there are all the discussions about the level of Nora's disabilities.
What point are people trying to make?

Well.... it’s a significant part of the story and plays a huge role in whatever happened to her. Parents say she was too disabled to get out there, LE says that no strangers broke in and took her. The description of her health changed over time, and what they started out describing is a kid who could get out there on her own, but what it ended up describing was a kid far too disabled to make it. People are just talking and trying to figure out all the pieces and how it shakes out.

This is a very unique case and I think that makes us really want to figure out what happened and why. I get hung up on how did she get there on her own if she is as badly off as the parents said in their second description. I can totally see how she did with their first one. I just want to know the how.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Lovely video of the school , worth a watch.

oh maaaan

 

[HopeForTheBest]

I know very little of this case and have a thought that probably has been considered but in case not: When we talk about navigating this jungle area, most of us are thinking about a person on two legs walking through as most would. Especially for someone who might be unsteady and especially at night or if NQ fell, might she have crawled instead? It’s not as fast as walking but it can get you through things, it might help explain why she wasn’t seen as her profile would be lower and smaller, and it might explain why her clothes were off due to catching on things or mud. MOO.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

As they flew back, police admitted that inexperienced searchers may have missed critical opportunities to save the teenager, who had severe learning difficulties.

As her parents and sister, 12, and brother, eight, returned to London, senior police officers involved in the search told The Mail on Sunday that Nora – who is believed to have been alive in the jungle for up to a week – might have been found before her death.

The searchers included people who were inexperienced and got tired quickly in the hot and humid conditions and didn’t always walk at arm’s length from each other,’ said one officer, speaking on condition of anonymity.

‘We can’t blame them because it was the first time for many of these searchers working for so many hours in these conditions and water and food supplies were limited. Overall, I think they did a good job despite incredibly arduous conditions.

Another senior officer, who also asked not to be named, said the area where Nora was found was yesterday still being investigated by forensic officers to see if there were any signs that Nora was abducted or assaulted before her death. Her underwear has not been found.

Sniffer dogs only picked up her trail about 100 metres from the lodge, and how a child with special needs could have walked nearly two miles into dense forest and through a steep ravine is mystifying.

‘Everyone is very upset and we have agonised over how she ended up in a waterfall area that had been combed by search teams in the first seven days.’
Malaysian police admit 'inexperienced' officers may have missed 'vital clues' in Nora Quoirin search | Daily Mail Online

 

[SuperTmo]

As they flew back, police admitted that inexperienced searchers may have missed critical opportunities to save the teenager, who had severe learning difficulties.

As her parents and sister, 12, and brother, eight, returned to London, senior police officers involved in the search told The Mail on Sunday that Nora – who is believed to have been alive in the jungle for up to a week – might have been found before her death.

The searchers included people who were inexperienced and got tired quickly in the hot and humid conditions and didn’t always walk at arm’s length from each other,’ said one officer, speaking on condition of anonymity.

‘We can’t blame them because it was the first time for many of these searchers working for so many hours in these conditions and water and food supplies were limited. Overall, I think they did a good job despite incredibly arduous conditions.

Another senior officer, who also asked not to be named, said the area where Nora was found was yesterday still being investigated by forensic officers to see if there were any signs that Nora was abducted or assaulted before her death. Her underwear has not been found.

Sniffer dogs only picked up her trail about 100 metres from the lodge, and how a child with special needs could have walked nearly two miles into dense forest and through a steep ravine is mystifying.

‘Everyone is very upset and we have agonised over how she ended up in a waterfall area that had been combed by search teams in the first seven days.’
Malaysian police admit 'inexperienced' officers may have missed 'vital clues' in Nora Quoirin search | Daily Mail Online

I mean, they can second guess themselves if they want.... I’m sure that is normal! There will always be what-ifs. But I think the conditions were extreme and they did the very best they could with the amazing people that they had. I really doubt the outcome would be different.

 

[Simply Southern]

As they flew back, police admitted that inexperienced searchers may have missed critical opportunities to save the teenager, who had severe learning difficulties.

As her parents and sister, 12, and brother, eight, returned to London, senior police officers involved in the search told The Mail on Sunday that Nora – who is believed to have been alive in the jungle for up to a week – might have been found before her death.

The searchers included people who were inexperienced and got tired quickly in the hot and humid conditions and didn’t always walk at arm’s length from each other,’ said one officer, speaking on condition of anonymity.

‘We can’t blame them because it was the first time for many of these searchers working for so many hours in these conditions and water and food supplies were limited. Overall, I think they did a good job despite incredibly arduous conditions.

Another senior officer, who also asked not to be named, said the area where Nora was found was yesterday still being investigated by forensic officers to see if there were any signs that Nora was abducted or assaulted before her death. Her underwear has not been found.

Sniffer dogs only picked up her trail about 100 metres from the lodge, and how a child with special needs could have walked nearly two miles into dense forest and through a steep ravine is mystifying.

‘Everyone is very upset and we have agonised over how she ended up in a waterfall area that had been combed by search teams in the first seven days.’
Malaysian police admit 'inexperienced' officers may have missed 'vital clues' in Nora Quoirin search | Daily Mail Online

This makes me sad.

We can’t blame them because it was the first time for many of these searchers working for so many hours in these conditions and water and food supplies were limited. Overall, I think they did a good job despite incredibly arduous conditions.’

They searched in horrendous, hot, humid, treacherous conditions, with limited food and water.

I always try to be the first on hand with bottled water, nabs and Little Debbie. Workers can grab and pocket. I'm in a small town and there always plenty of food. I'm so sorry food was not plentiful.

This was very expense and taxed the community resources, I feel sure. Extra food, water, gas, batteries, extra people staying, etc.

I hope there is some relief and recognition for all those that searched and helped in every way. I'm grateful to this community.


JMHO

 

[neesaki]

As they flew back, police admitted that inexperienced searchers may have missed critical opportunities to save the teenager, who had severe learning difficulties.

As her parents and sister, 12, and brother, eight, returned to London, senior police officers involved in the search told The Mail on Sunday that Nora – who is believed to have been alive in the jungle for up to a week – might have been found before her death.

The searchers included people who were inexperienced and got tired quickly in the hot and humid conditions and didn’t always walk at arm’s length from each other,’ said one officer, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Well this is just not right. Not right at all.

Hopefully at least some of the donations to Nora's family will somehow make it to these very courageous and selfless people. JMO

 

[Chiatos]

Nora was starting to become more independent, and had made some strong friendships. I have today received several emails from parents who have given me examples of her kindness to other, still more vulnerable children.

Thanks for the link @momrids6

I still believe that she was taken to the waterfall by someone else. Whether that person took her from inside the house or from outside the house, I have no clue.