Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #18

[FactFinder3000]

SBM/BBM - So is the forensics teacher saying he actually read these notes (if provided a paper transcript of video) of B&K or just in general in his past expertise?

I find that sentence could go either way. I can't tell if that comment is related to this case.

I believe he's saying that in his 30 year career as a police officer he's seen a few suicide notes written by people that have committed homicide, and they're usually self-serving and not factually accurate.

First thing I said, when news of the video came out, was that they would be saying they never meant for any of this to happen. There is no sign whatsoever that these two were looking for notoriety. Folks who commit homicide often still want to be seen in a positive way.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Thank you for your comments.
But it appears that there is no independent and hopefully objective third party that will review all the evidence and the RCMP’s conclusions and determine whether it supports what the RCMP concludes. If this is the case it doesn’t seem right to me, I think some independent verification would be appropriate!

Who do you suggest should verify the RCMP's findings?

The report is going to be largely fact, with little interpretation. You can see what to expect from the Danforth Shooter report here:

http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/publ...forth_shootings_findings_of_investigation.pdf

 

[NJSleuth91]

Or maybe his dad would have successfully talked him out of the trip. Maybe his dad knew he didn't seem to hack construction once while trying with him and might see through a bogus story. AS might have some streets smarts Bryer's other family might not have, so maybe harder to BS dad. JMO

This is a really good theory! I definitely get the sense, based on the interviews, that Bryer's dad had a lot more awareness that Bryer was troubled and not doing well, compared to his other family members. Unfortunately he also didn't have the resources to do anything about it and likely couldn't communicate with the other side of the family either. That's probably why he said "I'm so sorry I couldn't rescue you."

If you look at both of their histories you can see some parallels (making threats against people, etc.) so maybe he was better able to see it for that reason. It sounds like Bryer's dad has experienced the worst depths of mental illness himself, so perhaps he would have gotten a sense that something wasn't right, had he known more and sooner about their plans. From the texts it does sound like he was concerned even from the beginning.

Being an angry white male is not a mental illness.

And yet, the statistics strongly disagree that "being an angry white male" is the root cause of the issue.

 

[Schmoosh]

This is a really good theory! I definitely get the sense, based on the interviews, that Bryer's dad had a lot more awareness that Bryer was troubled and not doing well, compared to his other family members. Unfortunately he also didn't have the resources to do anything about it and likely couldn't communicate with the other side of the family either. That's probably why he said "I'm so sorry I couldn't rescue you."

If you look at both of their histories you can see some parallels (making threats against people, etc.) so maybe he was better able to see it for that reason. It sounds like Bryer's dad has experienced the worst depths of mental illness himself, so perhaps he would have gotten a sense that something wasn't right, had he known more and sooner about their plans. From the texts it does sound like he was concerned even from the beginning.

And yet, the statistics strongly disagree that "being an angry white male" is the root cause of the issue.

(bolding mine)
Spot on. I think a lot of people overlooked that last sentence of AS's but, to me, that was key.

 

[sandbar]

Here's a link to the definitive answer as to whether the RCMP has to release any information on a case, if there is an overview process etc. I just can't get through it...

Royal Canadian Mounted Police Act

ETA: this is for the complaints commission, but there is a link to the entire RCMP Act.

 

[musicaljoke]

Thank you for your comments.
But it appears that there is no independent and hopefully objective third party that will review all the evidence and the RCMP’s conclusions and determine whether it supports what the RCMP concludes. If this is the case it doesn’t seem right to me, I think some independent verification would be appropriate!

The RCMP has the authority to gather evidence and submit it to the appropriate labs for independent, arms length interpretation, according to strict protocols designed to protect the integrity of the evidence. The RCMP is the top policing agency in the country.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Here's a link to the definitive answer as to whether the RCMP has to release any information on a case, if there is an overview process etc. I just can't get through it...

Royal Canadian Mounted Police Act

That's for complaints against the RCMP...not sure how it relates...

 

[Link Haze]

Yeah, so it may have been a spur of the moment decision by Bryer and Kam. That may be why Bryer told his father and grandmother different stories, they didn't have a set plan. If I am remembering correctly, Kam told the gentleman in Cold Lake that his parents told him to go for a long joyride. That might be true.

My dad did the same thing at their age. He and his friends drove up to the Yukon just for fun.

I don't believe it was a "spur of the moment decision" at all. I believe it was thought out and planned over a period of time between the two of them. You don't go out and purchase guns before a trip to the Yukon for "fun". They went with malicious intent (for others and themselves), and acted on both. They wanted the notoriety and to be "talked about" (just like we are now doing on this website). They are (were) getting exactly what they wanted.

 

[NJSleuth91]

(bolding mine)
Spot on. I think a lot of people overlooked that last sentence of AS's but, to me, that was key.

Also forgot to mention, making abrupt and drastic changes in one's life out of nowhere is a classic sign of reaching a mental crisis point. As is deliberately isolating oneself from friends and family. I suspect none of that was lost on Bryer's dad.

 

[sandbar]

That's for complaints against the RCMP...not sure how it relates...

Sorry, I wasn't at all clear, there's a link there to the entire RCMP Act.

 

[MistyWaters]

I don't believe it was a "spur of the moment decision" at all. I believe it was thought out and planned over a period of time between the two of them. You don't go out and purchase guns before a trip to the Yukon for "fun". They went with malicious intent (for others and themselves), and acted on both. They wanted the notoriety and to be "talked about" (just like we are now doing on this website). They are (were) getting exactly what they wanted.

I agree. That the dad could’ve talked B out of job hunting had he had the opportunity assumes job hunting was their truthful intent.

There’s many known stressors associated to seeking employment including the disappointment of not getting called for an interview or another candidate is chosen but being accused of three murders on two different days, in two different locations isn’t one of them. The three victims were not shot or murdered accidentally, nor did the two flee in a stolen car just for a breathe of fresh air in northern Manitoba.

 

[sandbar]

I agree. That the dad could’ve talked B out of job hunting had he had the opportunity assumes job hunting was their truthful intent.

There’s many known stressors associated to seeking employment including the disappointment of not getting called for an interview or another candidate is chosen but being accused of three murders on two different days, in two different locations isn’t one of them.

Rather than talking BS out of going for a job, I think some WSers were thinking, and I agree, that it's more like AS could/might have seen through BS' cover story if they'd spoken/text exchanged.

eta: clarity

 

[Schmoosh]

Rather than talking BS out of going for a job, I think some WSers were thinking, and I agree, that it's more like AS could/might have seen through BS' cover story if they'd spoken/text exchanged.

eta: clarity

Exactly. There was no employment offer, nor plan of getting a "job" in Whitehorse or anywhere else. There was another catalyst for their leaving, and I hope the report tells us what that was.

Whatever it was that AS was trying to rescue him from (and there are many clues), was the catalyst.

 

[Jen-Knee]

I don't believe it was a "spur of the moment decision" at all. I believe it was thought out and planned over a period of time between the two of them. You don't go out and purchase guns before a trip to the Yukon for "fun". They went with malicious intent (for others and themselves), and acted on both. They wanted the notoriety and to be "talked about" (just like we are now doing on this website). They are (were) getting exactly what they wanted.

Was it ever actually confirmed that they bought a gun? There have been other witnesses who claimed to have seen them, but were never confirmed and due to the timeline didn't fit. Such as the hairdresser, for example, as well as all the supposed sightings in Ontario that took place when the two were possibly already deceased. We don't know why they had those guns, or how they got them. For all we know Kam's dad insisted they take them for protection. Or they were thinking of hunting.

 

[MistyWaters]

Rather than talking BS out of going for a job, I think some WSers were thinking, and I agree, that it's more like AS could/might have seen through BS' cover story if they'd spoke/text exchanged.

eta: clarity

I don’t think AS could’ve seen through anything given his son had apparently told him he wasn’t satisfied with his employment at Walmart and was intending to go job hunting. AS said this iirc. I also didn’t notice any interviews where AS expressed any shock, dismay or disappointment in reading Bs text about heading to Alberta to look for work. Maybe I missed something.

ETA
Given *advertiser censored* eagerness to speak to the media, one question he’s never answered was why did he think B told him one story about going to Red Deer to find work and his grandmother another about seeking work in Whitehorse. It’s the two conflicting stories that have me leaning toward job hunting was never Bs plan and he couldn’t keep his lies straight.

 

[Schmoosh]

I don’t think AS could’ve seen through anything given his son had apparently told him he wasn’t satisfied with his employment at Walmart and was intending to go job hunting. AS said this iirc. I also didn’t notice any interviews where AS expressed any shock, dismay or disappointment in reading Bs text about heading to Alberta to look for work. Maybe I missed something.

DBM

 

[Zella]

But talking to somebody everyday usually is indicative of a bonded father/son relationship.

That stuck out to me, too. I talk to my dad on the phone every day and certainly would not take the time to do so if we didn't get along so well.

I wonder if they talked on the phone or exchanged messages. In any event, to me, that does suggest they had a fairly good relationship, all things considered. I still think it was probably a bit tentative and even superficial due to the long years of absence, but it suggests to me that they got along reasonably well. MOO

 

[Zella]

I don’t think AS could’ve seen through anything given his son had apparently told him he wasn’t satisfied with his employment at Walmart and was intending to go job hunting. AS said this iirc. I also didn’t notice any interviews where AS expressed any shock, dismay or disappointment in reading Bs text about heading to Alberta to look for work. Maybe I missed something.

The impression I got was he thought it was a normal thing for a young man to do. In his first interview, he mentioned that he himself as a young man moved to British Columbia from Saskatchewan for work.

 

[scrappinkat]

They went with malicious intent (for others and themselves), and acted on both. They wanted the notoriety and to be "talked about" (just like we are now doing on this website). They are (were) getting exactly what they wanted.

Was there a specific article or report that discussed their malicious intent, their desire for notoriety (despite not really having online profiles) - or is that simply your opinion and how you see it?

 

[sandbar]

I don’t think AS could’ve seen through anything given his son had apparently told him he wasn’t satisfied with his employment at Walmart and was intending to go job hunting. AS said this iirc. I also didn’t notice any interviews where AS expressed any shock, dismay or disappointment in reading Bs text about heading to Alberta to look for work. Maybe I missed something.

To sum up using a cliche: a scammer can spot a scammer.

A loooong time ago in a thread someone explained it like an ad hoc type of planning, kinda, "now we'll do this", "should we do this or this?" type of working their way through one step at a time. That makes sense to me.

I'd bet, as a few people here have said, that perhaps B or K&B spoke to AS about going up north in the abstract, or maybe AS thought they were speaking in the abstract, but they were closer to leaving than they let on.