Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #115

[StarryStarryNight]

The last appeal for that one tip was 6 months ago. There’s been no push from the family to distribute flyers. They know. Moo

I’ve thought about that too. It seems very very quiet right now.
It might be because the case is drifting toward going cold. My hope is it’s because an arrest is coming.

 

[sunshineray]

I don't think that the "Guys" and "Down the hill" come from the same part of the audio. That's why I think DC told people at the presser to listen closely, [because they may not sound like it - not sure if that is just in my mind or he really said that but that's how I remember it and I can't check right now] because they are the same person.

No he definitely said that. I just think that "Guys" was said in a more normal way and "Down the hill" in a sinister voice. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

I can understand that. I have flip flopped so much on this case it’s unreal!

I'm in the midst of my first major flip flop. That caller on GH's show rattled my confidence that LE will be able to get this guy. Without someone coming forward, I'm losing hope. Praying that person will finally do the right thing.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

I'm in the midst of my first major flip flop. That caller on GH's show rattled my confidence that LE will be able to get this guy. Without someone coming forward, I'm losing hope. Praying that person will finally do the right thing.

That bad, huh? I haven’t been able to watch it. Is there a transcript of it?

 

[Torch Carrier]

The offender is wearing a hoodie in the video, but frame 47 of the video shows the offender has no hoodie over his head. The hood is behind his head.

His hair is very close in color to the background and surroundings of the video. From a typical viewing distance, this very lucky dude looks like he's walking with his hood up. I encourage all of you to download the image the shows all of the frames together. At the risk of being banned, but in the spirit of catching this sick person, I've posted it below, unedited.

Use an image program to zoom into the frames and you will see a clear and unfettered head of hair in frame 47, the closest frame to Libby's camera in the sequence. Look at his head and face and you will probably change how you feel about the offender's true age.

It may seem laughable (and delusional) to suggest the profile shown in the video is an illusion, but I assert that is the case here.

Mike- Thank you SO much for posting this ... the 48 still frames. It is such a great resource for those of us here wanting to evaluate (and re-evaluate) what we are seeing here (hood v hat v hair) ... and thank you as well for your many thoughtful contributions here!

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I don't think that the "Guys" and "Down the hill" come from the same part of the audio. That's why I think DC told people at the presser to listen closely, [because they may not sound like it - not sure if that is just in my mind or he really said that but that's how I remember it and I can't check right now] because they are the same person.

I’m one who doesn’t think the audio clip was edited and here’s why.
1) LE repeatedly has asked people not to post altered images of BG online, saying it is not helpful and could interfere with prosecution when the killer actually is caught and put on trial. It seems to me, that thinking would apply to the audio too, so I don’t think LE would break their own rule.
2) If LE did, in fact, edit the audio clip, I think they would and could have produced a cleaner version, without the awkward garbled part between “guys” and “down the hill”. I do think that part is garbled because LE doesn’t want us to hear something. It’s either the girls’ voices or the killer telling them in a much harsher or profane way to go down the hill.
Just my thoughts on things.

 

[kc1023]

JMO I think the 422 PC was aimed at "talking to" BG. I think the extra one word audio and the video of the same thing we basically already had was just added to give legitimacy to holding the PC but that it was not the true goal. The NBG sketch has done nothing but confuse the situation more. Again, JMO.

 

[Torch Carrier]

It's always seemed to me as if LE was referring to the way Libby and Abby were left at the crime scene. When you watch, look for details on the victim's overall disposition to glean more insight into the meaning behind that aspect of the PC.

Mike- I have read and re-read this post of yours but feel I'm not quite getting what you are trying to say here. Could you expound?

 

[Torch Carrier]

JMO I think the 422 PC was aimed at "talking to" BG. I think the extra one word audio and the video of the same thing we basically already had was just added to give legitimacy to holding the PC but that it was not the true goal. The NBG sketch has done nothing but confuse the situation more. Again, JMO.

^^^ This. I too feel the goal of the 4/22 PC was not really to show to the public the video of BG walking or to release that one word (of course, "guys...") but was purposefully crafted with the goal of getting a response out of someone (or more than one) who know d*mn well who BG is and who have been, in their silence, protecting him.

These people (Mom? ... are you lurking here? ... Dad?) should contact DC and make a plan to meet with him to discuss what they know in exchange for leniency as in getting the DP off the table or some protection for themselves (immunity?) IF (IF!) it is true this younger guy IS the killer.

 

[Torch Carrier]

P.S. I saw a pic elsewhere of the young guy I think looks just like the NBG sketch showing me that he WAS in attendance at the 4/22 presser. And at least one of his parents I can see was there, as well.

 

[TL4S]

I’m one who doesn’t think the audio clip was edited and here’s why.
1) LE repeatedly has asked people not to post altered images of BG online, saying it is not helpful and could interfere with prosecution when the killer actually is caught and put on trial. It seems to me, that thinking would apply to the audio too, so I don’t think LE would break their own rule.
2) If LE did, in fact, edit the audio clip, I think they would and could have produced a cleaner version, without the awkward garbled part between “guys” and “down the hill”. I do think that part is garbled because LE doesn’t want us to hear something. It’s either the girls’ voices or the killer telling them in a much harsher or profane way to go down the hill.
Just my thoughts on things.

I also don't think the audio was edited. But I don't believe they garbled any background noise.

When I listen through headphones, what I hear is deep running water, as in the creek, very nearby, and that noise follows right through his "down the hill," so I don't think it's been manipulated in any way. The other noises sound like walking through leaves. I've actually walked to the audio clip and those possible stepping sounds seems to match a natural pace.

I've always wondered if the audio was captured nearer the water than up by the bridge where so many people suggest he said it. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

That bad, huh? I haven’t been able to watch it. Is there a transcript of it?

I don't know if his shows are transcribed, good question. He can be a bit of a slowww listen sometimes.

My read on that caller is basically somebody who knows or is related to a source of police quality info. I got the feeling they were for real and not blowing smoke.

They said the only DNA LE has is a very small amount of touch DNA, an "insignificant amount" from the shoulder of a sweatshirt. They don't even know if it's the killer's. LE is amazed "they can't believe how little is there", so little DNA was at the murder scene. Just have to "hope killer has told someone but with a quarter of a million reward" and nothing, he most likely "he hasn't told a soul."

Killer was also said to have still been at the area 20 minutes after Libby's dad started looking for them. Just chilling to think about. Maybe why there's so little DNA evidence. All in all, very disheartening information given.

That caller starts at 2 hrs in.

 

[Mike Britton]

Mike- I have read and re-read this post of yours but feel I'm not quite getting what you are trying to say here. Could you expound?

MOO: Given the context of DC's speech directed at the killer, my feeling is the connection between the Shack and the murders is both a personal one for DC, and a direct reference to both the brutality of the COD and the manner the bodies were positioned / displayed.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Everything below is JMO, speculation and thoughts...

In the absence of LE releasing further info since April 22nd, I know that many of us have been watching as many YouTube videos that we can get our hands on to get as much info about this case as possible.

Although many of these videos have been a valuable resource for us with respect to timelines, witness sightings, debunking rumors, etc. they are not a from the 'horses mouth' source of info that can only come from L.E.

I am also keeping in mind that the reason while LE has been so tight-lipped on DNA and witness sightings is to preserve their case.

I am having trouble validating that a person calling into a YouTuber would be in possession of such valuable information about DNA found at the crime scene that they would feel it is okay to release it.

In an important case like this, I don't think that L.E. discusses any crime scene details with close family or friends, or leaks out info, no matter whom they are speaking with. It just doesn't seem like a standard practice, especially since most of the key players involved and in who are in possession of such info in this case are so dedicated to seeing this case solved and the killer arrested and brought to justice.

In addition, should this person have an 'insider resource', they would be better off containing the information they are given in order to obtain additional information if they are that interested in the case, and not be disclosing it to the general public so that their identity can be discovered and possible repercussions can take place.

I am taking much of this info about 'touch DNA on the shoulder' with a very fine grain of salt. I am not losing hope that LE will have something solid to connect the killer to this crime.

On a different note, this was shared in another group and I found it helpful and interesting with respect to CODIS and DNA Submissions.

http://www.dps.state.ia.us/DCI/lab/CODIS_DNASubmissions.pdf

His clothes, shoes/boots and his weapon are somewhere waiting to be found, and there is evidence of this crime on all of those things.

He went home that day and sat on his couch, used his bathroom and slept in his bed. Traces of those girls are where he lives, whether he realizes it or not.

The evidence is there. L.E. will find it.

Again, JMO

 

[susiQ]

My initial reaction to that April PC was Wow LE messed up! But after watching it a few days later, I took it as SOMEBODY misdirected LE & LE either got a darn good tip or something pointed them in the RIGHT direction. DC looked betrayed IMO

Just my personal opinion, but if they allowed themselves to be misdirected by someone (which I also believe), they messed up. Not saying that with any judgement. It happens.

 

[susiQ]

MOO: Given the context of DC's speech directed at the killer, my feeling is the connection between the Shack and the murders is both a personal one for DC, and a direct reference to both the brutality of the COD and the manner the bodies were positioned / displayed.

IF in fact the bodies were "displayed", could this have been a ploy by the killer to make it "look" like some psychopath SK did it, so LE would come up with a different "profile"? When in fact it was a targeted hit (for whatever motive) and he is right there as one of the community, helping in the search, hiding right in front of their faces? DC was pi$$ed, very much so. All just MOO.

 

[susiQ]

I’ve thought about that too. It seems very very quiet right now.
It might be because the case is drifting toward going cold. My hope is it’s because an arrest is coming.

Sadly, there are those cases where LE KNOW who did it, but they don't have enough evidence to arrest and convict successfully....yet! JMT

 

[TL4S]

Everything below is JMO, speculation and thoughts...

In the absence of LE releasing further info since April 22nd, I know that many of us have been watching as many YouTube videos that we can get our hands on to get as much info about this case as possible.

Although many of these videos have been a valuable resource for us with respect to timelines, witness sightings, debunking rumors, etc. they are not a from the 'horses mouth' source of info that can only come from L.E.

I am also keeping in mind that the reason while LE has been so tight-lipped on DNA and witness sightings is to preserve their case.

I am having trouble validating that a person calling into a YouTuber would be in possession of such valuable information about DNA found at the crime scene that they would feel it is okay to release it.

In an important case like this, I don't think that L.E. discusses any crime scene details with close family or friends, or leaks out info, no matter whom they are speaking with. It just doesn't seem like a standard practice, especially since most of the key players involved and in who are in possession of such info in this case are so dedicated to seeing this case solved and the killer arrested and brought to justice.

In addition, should this person have an 'insider resource', they would be better off containing the information they are given in order to obtain additional information if they are that interested in the case, and not be disclosing it to the general public so that their identity can be discovered and possible repercussions can take place.

I am taking much of this info about 'touch DNA on the shoulder' with a very fine grain of salt. I am not losing hope that LE will have something solid to connect the killer to this crime.

On a different note, this was shared in another group and I found it helpful and interesting with respect to CODIS and DNA Submissions.

http://www.dps.state.ia.us/DCI/lab/CODIS_DNASubmissions.pdf

His clothes, shoes/boots and his weapon are somewhere waiting to be found, and there is evidence of this crime on all of those things.

He went home that day and sat on his couch, used his bathroom and slept in his bed. Traces of those girls are where he lives, whether he realizes it or not.

The evidence is there. L.E. will find it.

Again, JMO

I agree. A couple days ago I linked an article with Leazenby stating that they had discussed trying familial DNA. Unless he was blowing smoke, I think LE has at least enough usable DNA to run a PCR. Why would they even consider the familial DNA route if there wasn't enough DNA to do anything with? Of course, they might not know if the DNA they have is the killer's, but they might not know it isn't. JMO

As for the youtube witnesses...I know people love their moment of glory, but seriously, if they're blabbing pertinent information, there will be repercussions, like you said. Holeman has said flat out that their information is on an as need to know basis. People talk, sure, but it's impossible for us to accurately sift through all the fiction to find the fact.

 

[puppyraiser]

There was a lawyer (a DA, I believe) who retired and then went back to work sometime just before the 4/22/19 presser. Is that lawyer still working? I recall some people speculating that he returned to work because this case was close to being solved and that there had been an arrest of someone for a different crime just prior to the presser.

 

[FreshEyes]

I don't know if his shows are transcribed, good question. He can be a bit of a slowww listen sometimes.

My read on that caller is basically somebody who knows or is related to a source of police quality info. I got the feeling they were for real and not blowing smoke.

They said the only DNA LE has is a very small amount of touch DNA, an "insignificant amount" from the shoulder of a sweatshirt. They don't even know if it's the killer's. LE is amazed "they can't believe how little is there", so little DNA was at the murder scene. Just have to "hope killer has told someone but with a quarter of a million reward" and nothing, he most likely "he hasn't told a soul."

Killer was also said to have still been at the area 20 minutes after Libby's dad started looking for them. Just chilling to think about. Maybe why there's so little DNA evidence. All in all, very disheartening information given.

That caller starts at 2 hrs in.

Any thoughts on how LE might know the killer stayed for 20 min after the murders? Would there be a way forensically to tell?
assuming that caller isn’t just full of it.