OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #51

[Cool Cats]

IMO, they were filed. With Judge Rosenberger.

Suspect in killings of daughter's mother and family sought custody just 6 days after the murders

He was granted temporary custody of Sophia on May 4, 2016, in what the judge said was the "best interests of the child."

Your right that this would be the time to present the forged Custody Documents if he did present them.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

"The decks at some of the 300-plus permanent campsites at Big Bear Lake Family Resort in Lucasville look ripped from the pages of a magazine about mansions. They are multi-level and ornate, with octagonal roofs, fancy finials and intricate detail. Chris Sr. worked for resort owner Robin Waddell at this and another campground for more than 20 years. When he worked, his hands infused love and pride into every board, Waddell said. He was the most talented carpenter I’d ever seen."


'A man can't bear it,' relative of Pike County victims says

I will post some of his work at BBL when I have more time, he built my deck a few years back. Tony does great work also.

 

[Cool Cats]

"The decks at some of the 300-plus permanent campsites at Big Bear Lake Family Resort in Lucasville look ripped from the pages of a magazine about mansions. They are multi-level and ornate, with octagonal roofs, fancy finials and intricate detail. Chris Sr. worked for resort owner Robin Waddell at this and another campground for more than 20 years. When he worked, his hands infused love and pride into every board, Waddell said. He was the most talented carpenter I’d ever seen."


'A man can't bear it,' relative of Pike County victims says

I will post some of his work at BBL when I have more time, he built my deck a few years back. Tony does great work also.

Thank You so much, I couldn't find that article!....

 

[Loomis124]

Your right that this would be the time to present the forged Custody Documents if he did present them.

I'm not saying the "guardianship" papers filed in Discovery are the ones Jake used to get custody of SW 6 days after the murders. But...what other documents existed then??? Or did the great judge just make it easy? Yes, IMO. And the W's had it all planned o u t. They had to get to Alaska and they needed papers...

 

[Loomis124]

Thank You so much, I couldn't find that article!....

DBMeeeeee

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I'm not saying the "guardianship" papers filed in Discovery are the ones Jake used to get custody of SW 6 days after the murders. But...what other documents existed then??? Or did the great judge just make it easy? Yes, IMO. And the W's had it all planned o u t. They had to get to Alaska and they needed papers...

Loomis
Can you explain more of what you’re saying it should interesting.

 

[Betty P]

"The decks at some of the 300-plus permanent campsites at Big Bear Lake Family Resort in Lucasville look ripped from the pages of a magazine about mansions. They are multi-level and ornate, with octagonal roofs, fancy finials and intricate detail. Chris Sr. worked for resort owner Robin Waddell at this and another campground for more than 20 years. When he worked, his hands infused love and pride into every board, Waddell said. He was the most talented carpenter I’d ever seen."


'A man can't bear it,' relative of Pike County victims says

I will post some of his work at BBL when I have more time, he built my deck a few years back. Tony does great work also.

Well, that's nice to know. I take your and RW's word that Chris Sr. was a good carpenter.

He and KR were also very skilled at gardening and raising fruit trees, learned from their father Clarence. He worked in the city during the week, and relied on his sons to cultivate the garden and nursery while he was away. The Rhodens needed to grow and preserve vegetables and fruits to tide them over during the winter months, when work was scarce. Back then, Clarence worked in the asphalt paving business.

Pike County: Death in the foothills

Look forward to your sharing any photos of Chris Sr.'s work!

The employment situation was probably similar for Chris, Sr. and Kenneth, too. They had to work hard, long hours during the summer and fall because the type of outdoor work left them laid off during winter months. That's probably why they supplemented their income working on cars.

 

[sunshineray]

I thought Rita the most likely to plea. The others based on how the first Wagner trial goes.

It appears to me from Rita's Court Hearing
that the Custody Documents were found in a box in Angela's house, downloaded from a Texas Website. There are no articles, Discovery, or Court records so far to show the Documents were actually filed. There are forged Custody Documents listed in the indictment but nothing is said about forged Documents being filed with the Court.

Were they notarized but not filed? If not filed how can it be a crime? You would literally have to go to Court and officially present/file them somewhere.

Where would a person put forged Custody Documents to make it official? Jake did not need the Custody Documents to get Sophia, so he didn't need to file them. Is this why Rita thinks she can win at trial?

Just mulling things over trial starts in only 2 weeks....

Downloaded from a Texas website? Were they filed in Texas?

 

[Cool Cats]

DBMeeeeee

???

 

[Cool Cats]

Downloaded from a Texas website? Were they filed in Texas?

No not filed in Texas, they looked around on-line and found custody documents to download from a Texas Website.

RITA NEWCOMB BAIL REVOCATION HEARING - PART 1

Ritas's Attorney:
"...July 20-19 we asked for a list of copies of the entire contents and documents contained in the tub marked important stuff that was seized from Angela Wagner in which the State claims does contain the custody documents allegedly notarized by Rita Newcomb. We are searching for certain documents that the prosecution is aware of previously dated 8 something which these alleged custody documents, but actually they're guardian documents.

Judge: They're what?

Rita's Attorney:
It's actually titled guardian summarized as custody documents.

Judge: So you've asked for copies?

Rita's Attorney:
I want to know what is in this box where they found the original---I put original I'm not sure they are original---copies of something that was copied from a Texas Website talking about guardianship. But there's others that we're looking at, hand written signed on dates she notarized, some of that were hand written dated on the dates in which she notarized the printed document.

Judge:
Ok you found out about these through discovery? And then you asked for copies of them?

Rita's Attorney:
Yes, well we want to know what was in them that particular tub of materials that I'm looking for. I don't need to know everything that's in it, it's just these 3 handwritten (similar?)
documents. Documents which are dated the same dates as the ones printed out--- the subject of which the documents---same date as the documents that are the subject of this particular trial.

Judge:
I guess maybe I'm not following, you found out about these documents through discovery?

Rita's Attorney:
Well yes through search warrants that were issued for those---I think it represented prosecution that they had received this tub marked important stuff.... "

Later Canepa tells the Judge that Rita's attorney found out about this box marked important stuff from "inventory of contents from the Search Warrant" and from "discussions from Angela Wagner on phone calls." I assume Angela told Rita then Rita told her attorney.

 

[Betty P]

Thank You so much, I couldn't find that article!....

That's one of the saddest articles. Poor Tony, what that family has been through. Holly Zacharia did an excellent job writing those stories, presenting the Rhoden family in a sympathetic way while protecting their dignity and privacy.

No not filed in Texas, they looked around on-line and found custody documents to download from a Texas Website.

That's my impression - they were "template" legal forms that you could download and complete and file yourself. ICBW

Also, remember there are two different forgery charges:

1) Forged custody documents against Hanna Rhoden
2) Forged guardianship documents against Jake Wagner and George 4

Those forged guardianship documents are creepy, IMO. As if AW wanted to make sure she had custody of the children in case they were killed while trying to murder the Rhoden family.

Never in a million years could I see cooking up something like this to put my kids and grandkids in mortal danger. Seriously messed up.

ETA: This screen cap of HMR's social media as reported by Cleveland.com

Pike County shooting victims shared social media posts about faith, family, work (slideshow)

 

[Betty P]

In going back through the Media & Timelines thread for the Rhoden Family Massacre, I've noticed several more instances of news media online articles and video from the 2016-2018 period have been altered, interviews and quotes deleted, etc. Nearly all seem to be quotes from LE, prosecutors and witnesses that incriminate various members of the 4 Wagners.

Quotes about violent incidents, pressure to sign over custody, etc. have been scrubbed from many of these videos and articles. I was even surprised to see that a quote from then AG Mike DeWine may have been scrubbed.

While this is very frustrating and, IMO, unethical, we may need to begin making our own copies of important news items that may end up being scrubbed from the internet.

ETA: I'm also realizing I'll need to update the Rhoden Murders Timeline as some of the links no longer contain relevant information.

Fortunately, I have found an alternate source for the quote from LM that the Wagners had tried to force HMR to sign over custody rights to S 2 to 3 weeks before the murders.

 

[Ann99]

I’m reading replies about custody and Judge Rosenberger...
I remembered this- as Cincinnati Enquirer objected strongly to being unable to report.
This article may not apply directly to the discussion, but it references Rosenberg and his proceedings re: custody for K. and R. Also Reader comment.
Now, I wonder about what was really happening at that time, maybe behind the scenes.
Too bad there was not media coverage of some sort.
But the concern for safety of the children and caregivers is understandable.
Here is part of the text from Columbus Dispatch. I could not get the link to copy.
You can google it using key words from the article.

“Pike County judge closes hearings over custody of children who survived

By Holly Zachariah, The Columbus Dispatch

Posted Sep 2, 2016 at 12:01 AM


The Pike County juvenile court judge ruled Thursday that the records and court hearings related to the custody of two of the children found at the scenes of the Rhoden family killings in April will be closed to the public. Judge Robert Rosenberger wrote that the potential harm to the children or to the adults who care for them outweighs any benefit of public access to the information.

The Pike County juvenile court judge ruled Thursday that the records and court hearings related to the custody of two of the children found at the scenes of the Rhoden family killings in April will be closed to the public.

Judge Robert Rosenberger wrote that the potential harm to the children or to the adults who care for them outweighs any benefit of public access to the information.

At issue are the custody proceedings for Kylie Rhoden, the now 4-month-old daughter of Hanna Rhoden, who was killed on April 22, and Ruger Rhoden, the now-11-month old son of Clarence “Frankie” Rhoden and Hannah Gilley, both of whom also were shot to death that day.

Ohio law presumes Juvenile Court hearings to be open and that some (but not all) of the accompanying records are a matter of public record.

In this case, Pike County Children Services asked Rosenberger to close the courtroom and seal the records, saying that potential danger to the children would outweigh any public good.

The Cincinnati Enquirer formally objected to the closure, and Rosenberger held a hearing on Aug. 4 to hear from both sides.
At that time, Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader testified that he believes all three children -- a third child, 3-year-old Brentley Rhoden, was also found unharmed in one of the Rhoden homes -- remain in danger. Reader said that disclosing information about their whereabouts would put not only the children at risk but their caregivers as well.

The two youngest children have been in foster care since the homicides as three relatives vie for permanent custody. Brentley remains with his mother and is not involved in the court proceedings....”

 

[Betty P]

I’m reading replies about custody and Judge Rosenberger...
I remembered this- as Cincinnati Enquirer objected strongly to being unable to report.
This article may not apply directly to the discussion, but it references Rosenberg and his proceedings re: custody for K. and R. Also Reader comment.
Now, I wonder about what was really happening at that time, maybe behind the scenes.
Too bad there was not media coverage of some sort.
But the concern for safety of the children and caregivers is understandable.
Here is part of the text from Columbus Dispatch. I could not get the link to copy.
You can google it using key words from the article.

“Pike County judge closes hearings over custody of children who survived

By Holly Zachariah, The Columbus Dispatch

Posted Sep 2, 2016 at 12:01 AM


The Pike County juvenile court judge ruled Thursday that the records and court hearings related to the custody of two of the children found at the scenes of the Rhoden family killings in April will be closed to the public. Judge Robert Rosenberger wrote that the potential harm to the children or to the adults who care for them outweighs any benefit of public access to the information.

The Pike County juvenile court judge ruled Thursday that the records and court hearings related to the custody of two of the children found at the scenes of the Rhoden family killings in April will be closed to the public.

Judge Robert Rosenberger wrote that the potential harm to the children or to the adults who care for them outweighs any benefit of public access to the information.

At issue are the custody proceedings for Kylie Rhoden, the now 4-month-old daughter of Hanna Rhoden, who was killed on April 22, and Ruger Rhoden, the now-11-month old son of Clarence “Frankie” Rhoden and Hannah Gilley, both of whom also were shot to death that day.

Ohio law presumes Juvenile Court hearings to be open and that some (but not all) of the accompanying records are a matter of public record.

In this case, Pike County Children Services asked Rosenberger to close the courtroom and seal the records, saying that potential danger to the children would outweigh any public good.

The Cincinnati Enquirer formally objected to the closure, and Rosenberger held a hearing on Aug. 4 to hear from both sides.
At that time, Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader testified that he believes all three children -- a third child, 3-year-old Brentley Rhoden, was also found unharmed in one of the Rhoden homes -- remain in danger. Reader said that disclosing information about their whereabouts would put not only the children at risk but their caregivers as well.

The two youngest children have been in foster care since the homicides as three relatives vie for permanent custody. Brentley remains with his mother and is not involved in the court proceedings....”

Here's the link

Pike County judge closes hearings over custody of children who survived family's murder

The takeaway from this article is that Sheriff Reader said "all 3 children remain in danger". That includes Hanna Rhoden's infant, as well as her brother Frankie's (and Hannah Gilley's) baby. Neither of those infants was old enough to talk and would not have recognized the killers.

That sounds like LE didn't know at the time who the killers were. Of course, Judge Rosenberger eventually gave JW custody of S.

JMO, the 4 Wagners had LE and the judge fooled for quite a while. Thought they were all folks "living next to the cross" or whatever. Some of the killers were probably still feeding false tips to LE, trying to incriminate other family members.

ETA: Here's what I have in my timeline for that period

Sometime in August: JW & brother list the Peterson Rd farm for sale

Monday, August 8, 2016

Columbus Dispatch files lawsuit against Pike County Coroner’s office saying it is improperly withholding final autopsy results.

Coroner, attorney general refuse to release final autopsies in Pike County killings

Thursday, September 1, 2016

Pike County Judge Rosenberger rules records and court hearings regarding custody of the children who survived the Rhoden Family Massacre be kept closed to the public. Sheriff Charles Reader testifies in court that all three children and their caregivers are still in danger.

Pike County judge closes hearings over custody of children who survived family's murder

Friday, September 9, 2016

PCSO/BCI conducts an audio interview with George Wagner III

Jake Wagner appears in court, some evidence turned over to his attorneys

Friday, September 23, 2016
Ohio AG releases heavily redacted final autopsy reports
Ohio AG releases redacted Rhoden autopsy reports

Attorney General releases heavily redacted Pike County autopsy reports


Wednesday, October 5, 2016

PCSO/BCI conducts an audio interview with Angela Wagner

Ibid

After this entry, I show no other activity related to the case until early 2017.

I'm going to clarify this timeline some more, as there's some confusion. On Aug 11, 2016, there was the article in which the surviving Rhoden's scoffed at Sheriff Reader's remarks about keeping court records from the public because the children were still in grave danger. So Reader's comments were before the Sept 1 article.

Anyway, as I recalled it, the victim's families felt that LE's remarks were aimed at them, as if they were the suspects. Yep, JMO, that was unfair and ultimately was proven incorrect.

Rhodens scoff at Pike County sheriff's comments

From the comments, it also sounds like Tony Rhoden didn't think the kids were still in danger, meaning he either didn't suspect the 4 Wags of the murders or felt they could handle any threats themselves. Keep in mind they were still a family in terrible shock, out of their minds with grief after the loss of so many family members.

 

[Berrybell]

Here's the link

Pike County judge closes hearings over custody of children who survived family's murder

The takeaway from this article is that Sheriff Reader said "all 3 children remain in danger". That includes Hanna Rhoden's infant, as well as her brother Frankie's (and Hannah Gilley's) baby. Neither of those infants was old enough to talk and would not have recognized the killers.

That sounds like LE didn't know at the time who the killers were. Of course, Judge Rosenberger eventually gave JW custody of S.

JMO, the 4 Wagners had LE and the judge fooled for quite a while. Thought they were all folks "living next to the cross" or whatever. Some of the killers were probably still feeding false tips to LE, trying to incriminate other family members.

ETA: Here's what I have in my timeline for that period

Sometime in August: JW & brother list the Peterson Rd farm for sale

Monday, August 8, 2016

Columbus Dispatch files lawsuit against Pike County Coroner’s office saying it is improperly withholding final autopsy results.

Coroner, attorney general refuse to release final autopsies in Pike County killings

Thursday, September 1, 2016

Pike County Judge Rosenberger rules records and court hearings regarding custody of the children who survived the Rhoden Family Massacre be kept closed to the public. Sheriff Charles Reader testifies in court that all three children and their caregivers are still in danger.

Pike County judge closes hearings over custody of children who survived family's murder

Friday, September 9, 2016

PCSO/BCI conducts an audio interview with George Wagner III

Jake Wagner appears in court, some evidence turned over to his attorneys

Friday, September 23, 2016
Ohio AG releases heavily redacted final autopsy reports
Ohio AG releases redacted Rhoden autopsy reports

Attorney General releases heavily redacted Pike County autopsy reports


Wednesday, October 5, 2016

PCSO/BCI conducts an audio interview with Angela Wagner

Ibid

After this entry, I show no other activity related to the case until early 2017.

I'm going to clarify this timeline some more, as there's some confusion. On Aug 11, 2016, there was the article in which the surviving Rhoden's scoffed at Sheriff Reader's remarks about keeping court records from the public because the children were still in grave danger. So Reader's comments were before the Sept 1 article.

Anyway, as I recalled it, the victim's families felt that LE's remarks were aimed at them, as if they were the suspects. Yep, JMO, that was unfair and ultimately was proven incorrect.

Rhodens scoff at Pike County sheriff's comments

From the comments, it also sounds like Tony Rhoden didn't think the kids were still in danger, meaning he either didn't suspect the 4 Wags of the murders or felt they could handle any threats themselves. Keep in mind they were still a family in terrible shock, out of their minds with grief after the loss of so many family members.

Betty I wonder if Reader wasn't concerned for SW safety because he suspected the Wags killed to get her and she was too important to them to harm (physically).

I am sure the Wags were telling LE and investigators lies and misdirections but there were more people (Rodens + Manleys) telling them the truth about the relationship between JW and HR. I remember an interview with LM the day of the murders and he said then it was over custody. MOO.

 

[Betty P]

Betty I wonder if Reader wasn't concerned for SW safety because he suspected the Wags killed to get her and she was too important to them to harm (physically).

I am sure the Wags were telling LE and investigators lies and misdirections but there were more people (Rodens + Manleys) telling them the truth about the relationship between JW and HR. I remember an interview with LM the day of the murders and he said then it was over custody. MOO.

Yes, agree, the 4 Wags were probably providing a lot of misdirection, bad tips, etc. to police at that point, primarily pointing the finger at the surviving Rhoden/Manley/Gilley family members. Reader seemed worried about the safety of the all the surviving kids, including those who wouldn't be able to identify the killers. IMO, that indicated they thought custody might be a motive, but they were unsure which child's relative was the killer. IIRC, at this point, even the surviving family members didn't know who had the children, or at least not all of them. Tony's quote in the article probably expressed frustration and grief, in part on behalf of his mother, Ms Geneva.

ETA: Emphasis though, on the likelihood that the 4 W's had Reader and the others chasing after a ton of false leads, wasting time, etc. trying to frame the Rhodens, Manleys, anybody but themselves. They were sure busy hacking into people's cell phones, texts, social media accounts, maybe FB messaging, etc. during this time period. They had everyone running in circles for a while.

In the midst of all that electronic/digital misdirection, I wonder if some analysts at BCI or elsewhere suddenly saw something that made them realize accounts were being hacked, information being planted, someone listening in, etc.

What if one of those geniuses tried to hack into LE's computers? Or did so trying to make it appear another person was doing the hacking? Anything is possible with those people.

 

[Cool Cats]

That's one of the saddest articles. Poor Tony, what that family has been through. Holly Zacharia did an excellent job writing those stories, presenting the Rhoden family in a sympathetic way while protecting their dignity and privacy.



That's my impression - they were "template" legal forms that you could download and complete and file yourself. ICBW

Also, remember there are two different forgery charges:

1) Forged custody documents against Hanna Rhoden
2) Forged guardianship documents against Jake Wagner and George 4

Those forged guardianship documents are creepy, IMO. As if AW wanted to make sure she had custody of the children in case they were killed while trying to murder the Rhoden family.

Never in a million years could I see cooking up something like this to put my kids and grandkids in mortal danger. Seriously messed up.

ETA: This screen cap of HMR's social media as reported by Cleveland.com

Pike County shooting victims shared social media posts about faith, family, work (slideshow)

So your right about the forged documents being different charges. I went back and read the 3 Forgery Charges:

Count #1) is forgery related to Hanna Rhoden.
Count #2) is Forgery related to Jake.
Count#3) is related to GW3.

In relation to Jake and GW4, I saw the custody document on
Angenette Levy's Twitter account, the part that said Angela would get custody of the kids in the event of Hanna/Jake/GW4 deaths. So why fake that part it's perfectly legal.

A divorced father can file a custody document saying that if he and the mother die, custody goes to the grandparent. No need for the ex wife's signature, especially when he knows the ex-wife won't be around to contest it.

Then you have the box of custody documents. If in a box, so what, that's not illegal either. I assume custody documents were FILED WITH THE COURT for criminal charges against Rita to be filed.

Something (strange) here is going on that induced Rita to take this to trial and not plea. If "cut and dried" she would plea. All in my opinion only.

Angenette Levy √ VERIFIED
@Angenette5

Emmy-nominated reporter at WKRC. Constantly curious. Surprise mom. Big fan of animals, coffee and great conversation. Don't back down.
twitter.com

 

[Johnny B Bad]

So your right about the forged documents being different charges. I went back and read the 3 Forgery Charges:

Count #1) is forgery related to Hanna Rhoden.
Count #2) is Forgery related to Jake.
Count#3) is related to GW3.

Ok, question. I understand Hanna's signature being forged but I don't get why Jake and GW4's custody documents would be forged. Why couldn't they legally sign custody documents and Rita legally file them? There is nothing illegal about that.

In relation to Jake and GW4, I saw the custody document on
Angenette Levy's Twitter account, the part that said Angela would get custody of the kids in the event of Jake/GW4 deaths. So why fake that part? As I said it's perfectly legal.

Then you have the box of custody documents. If in a box, so what, that's not illegal either. I assume custody documents were FILED for charges against Rita to be filed. But why would it be illegal for Jake and GW4 to file the documents for themselves? And why illegal for Rita to sign their documents?

Something here is going on that induced Rita to take this to trial and not plea. If "cut and dried" she would plea. All in my opinion only.

Angenette Levy
@Angenette5

Emmy-nominated reporter at WKRC. Constantly curious. Surprise mom. Big fan of animals, coffee and great conversation. Don't back down.
twitter.com

Do you think that Angela had Rita to forge another document of where if the to boys was dead she would get the grandkids also remember SW was in tiled to SSI fro deceased mother. JMO

 

[Berrybell]

So your right about the forged documents being different charges. I went back and read the 3 Forgery Charges:

Count #1) is forgery related to Hanna Rhoden.
Count #2) is Forgery related to Jake.
Count#3) is related to GW3.

In relation to Jake and GW4, I saw the custody document on
Angenette Levy's Twitter account, the part that said Angela would get custody of the kids in the event of Hanna/Jake/GW4 deaths. So why fake that part it's perfectly legal.

A divorced father can file a custody document saying that if he and the mother die, custody goes to the grandparent. No need for the ex wife's signature, especially when he knows the ex-wife won't be around to contest it.

Then you have the box of custody documents. If in a box, so what, that's not illegal either. I assume custody documents were FILED WITH THE COURT for criminal charges against Rita to be filed.

Something (strange) here is going on that induced Rita to take this to trial and not plea. If "cut and dried" she would plea. All in my opinion only.

Angenette Levy √ VERIFIED
@Angenette5

Emmy-nominated reporter at WKRC. Constantly curious. Surprise mom. Big fan of animals, coffee and great conversation. Don't back down.
twitter.com

I agree CC something about the forged documents is strange and this will be an interesting trial. I am also curious why RN's attorney wanted the "box" the documents were found in or wanted to know what else was there. If other contents in the box found at AWs were not a part of RN's discovery then why be concerned?

 

[Cool Cats]

Do you think that Angela had Rita to forge another document of where if the to boys was dead she would get the grandkids also remember SW was in tiled to SSI fro deceased mother. JMO

What I saw was custody only going to Angela. Nothing about Rita. In the event of Angela's death I am sure they would want custody to go to Billy, the grandfather.

...2 Cents.......