CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #63

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Exactly..... as I read through posts, especially those where folks may believe PF is not guilty, and I read their reasoning behind it, I remind myself that we are all going through this trial with second hand tweets, FB live posts, etc, forming our own interpretation based on those.... and the reporters are doing an excellent job of it. I remind myself not to get caught up in the slight difference of a word/s a witness is "reported" to have said. It's the major and obvious testimony of facts that matters the most to me. Innocent until proven guilty... of course. But PF is the guy with the bulls eye on him.... and the more I read/hear, that bow & arrow keeps raising higher and higher.... aiming towards the bulls eye.
I want to bring over this post.
It is right on target.

"we are all going through this trial with second hand tweets, FB live posts, etc....and the reporters are doing an excellent job of it. I remind myself not to get caught up in the slight difference of a word/s a witness is "reported" to have said. It's the major and obvious testimony of facts that matters the most to me."

Thus far this trial has presented strong strong circumstantial evidence!
 
I don't know if anyone has posted the conditions of the plea deal since the last thread but here are the ones Sam could remember from his FB live:

- KK was solicited by PF

- She came to Colorado with the coffee for Berreth.

- KK did not follow through with her plans.

- Kelsey was killed on the 22nd.

- KK did not know the murder was going to happen.

- She helped Frazee cover up the crime.

(Maybe we can figure out the last one ourselves.)

Imo
 
I don't know if anyone has posted the conditions of the plea deal since the last thread but here are the ones Sam could remember from his FB live:

- KK was solicited by PF

- She came to Colorado with the coffee for Berreth.

- KK did not follow through with her plans.

- Kelsey was killed on the 22nd.

- KK did not know the murder was going to happen.

- She helped Frazee cover up the crime.

(Maybe we can figure out the last one ourselves.)

Imo

This?

Krystal Kenney, 32, agreed to testify against Patrick Frazee, the man accused of killing Kelsey Berreth. As part of the deal, Kenney will not be allowed to speak to the media and will be required to cooperate in all related cases. The tampering charge is a class 6 felony.

Krystal Kenney pleads guilty to tampering charge, will testify against Frazee
 
Stiegerwald had Kenney admit she lied to the FBI the first time and noted again that she claimed she wanted to be caught. She testified that when agents came to her house, she said she would cooperate but said she did not tell them about any of the clues.

He again noted that the first time she talked to law enforcement was after she received the plea agreement and a letter and bullet points outlining what she needed to talk about, which she confirmed.

Frazee trial: Defense asks why Kenney didn't alert authorities


In KOAA reporter Sam Kraemer's last video, he covered Steigerwald's cross questions to KK extensively. The bullet points were apparently read off in court by Steigerwald who said this is what she was given, what she agreed to with the DA, to get her deal. KK responded that it's the truth. hth

Okay everyone, the "bullet points" as they are being referred to were parts of her PLEA AGREEMENT. If you refer back to @MassGuy's post:

CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #62
She had to prove this was true:

KK was solicited by Frazee.

She came to Colorado and met Berreth (coffee incident).

KK didn’t follow through, and abandoned the plans.

Kelsey was killed on the 22nd.

KK didn’t know it was going to happen (big one for me).

She helped Frazee cover up the crime.

If these things couldn’t be corroborated, then the plea deal would be voided.


These "bullet points" weren't about how the murder took place. <modsnip - bickering>
 
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BBM Huh, yeah. ;)

There is no reasonable doubt if this jury is capable of criminal thinking. Plain, straight-up common sense also comes to mind. I am confident that DA May weeded out anyone who thinks comparing the evidence in this case to the movie Fatal Attraction is critical thinking. :confused::eek:

Lord, have mercy! :p:p:p

MOO

ETA: Now I have that line from A Few Good Men stuck in my head.
ie: YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!
It's not the evidence that compares to a movie, it's the delusional, obsessed 'star witness' whose grasp on reality is tenuous at best. I am equally certain that the jurors picked up on KK's obvious base mental issues as well as her dishonesty. hth
 
Okay everyone, the "bullet points" as they are being referred to were parts of her PLEA AGREEMENT. If you refer back to @MassGuy's post:

CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #62
She had to prove this was true:

KK was solicited by Frazee.

She came to Colorado and met Berreth (coffee incident).

KK didn’t follow through, and abandoned the plans.

Kelsey was killed on the 22nd.

KK didn’t know it was going to happen (big one for me).

She helped Frazee cover up the crime.

If these things couldn’t be corroborated, then the plea deal would be voided.


These "bullet points" weren't about how the murder took place. Please stop spreading this false narrative.

Thanks for the seven bullet points and her requirements for the plea as I could not find it.

I'm still hoping that Sam *the man* comes on tonight as he thought he might tonight.. Still haven't seen a follow up of his statement he might on his twitter. He's posted a couple of things in the last few days, but not mentioned tonight.
 
Yep, this would be SOP for points of her agreement, and not *talking points* about specifics to lie about. I guess it is semantics that some folks are still confused about, although many have tried to clarify here on this thread (e.g. perhaps #1 was tell us what happened at the condo #2 etc... ).

I think some folks perhaps were thinking that the bullet points were specifics that the prosecution and LE knew that she knew evidence at the time and must attest to to get a deal? But... they.did.not.know that at the time so how could they?

That's the only reason I can fathom why this is going round and round and round?

The seven points that the DEFENSE pointed out that she needed to tell the truth about, which was listed above in the previous thread. I can't find the post that someone did, but I'm confident it was general and without specifics at all. At the time she was interviewed, they didn't know 90%+ of the evidence and folks to go to for witnesses that we now know.

The OP also stated that KKL was *coached* by the Prosecutor for ORIGINAL testimony in the Springs with her atty, the word "coached" seemed to be perhaps inflammatory and/or misleading to some, as we know that the prosecutor could NOT haved "coached" "leading" information out of her at the time which she didn't even have that has been 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 confirmed on the stand.



I'm still looking for the post that stated what the agreement was that was in the media that the defense said in court, I guess must have been Sam or a video?


I'm looking for it also! I read it in a post made before I posted about the list of 7.

While searching I found this and watched it again.

District Attorney Dan May addresses plea agreement with Idaho nurse Krystal Kenney

At around the 2:00 mark Dan May says the Judge put terms on the agreement, and the judge is the one who will determine KK's sentence.

At around the 14:00 mark Dan explains the sentencing in detail. If the judge feels there is extreme aggravating factors he can give her 3 years.

Maybe one of our attorneys can explain what extreme aggravating factors could be?
 
Okay everyone, the "bullet points" as they are being referred to were parts of her PLEA AGREEMENT. If you refer back to @MassGuy's post:

CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #62
She had to prove this was true:

KK was solicited by Frazee.

She came to Colorado and met Berreth (coffee incident).

KK didn’t follow through, and abandoned the plans.

Kelsey was killed on the 22nd.

KK didn’t know it was going to happen (big one for me).

She helped Frazee cover up the crime.

If these things couldn’t be corroborated, then the plea deal would be voided.


These "bullet points" weren't about how the murder took place. Please stop spreading this false narrative.


all that was posted by me was an article from the msm, I posted no false narrative whatsoever and included the link
 
PF stated: No body no crime--

Sam Kramer article:

Frazee Trial: "No body" murder trials carry high conviction rates

"DiBiase's research shows so-called "no body" murders carry a conviction rate of 88 percent. That's compared to just 70 percent for murders where the victim's body or remains are included in the evidence, according to the Department of Justice."

"The obvious defense would be questioning whether Berreth is actually dead, so DiBiase said prosecutors will then rely heavily on circumstantial evidence. For example, he expects the testimony of Krystal Kenney, Frazee's girlfriend, to be important in court, as prosecutors said Kenney provided details on how the murder happened."

"Cell phone evidence showed Berreth and Frazee's phones traveling together in the immediate days following the crime, though Frazee said he last saw her on Nov. 22. Court documents show police believe Frazee devised a plan, with fake text messages and calls, as part of a deception tactic to throw off law enforcement."
 
She has good tweets and commentary a/b the trial. Don't know if she's been posted on the thread before, I'm sure, but just in case:
Daniela Leon‏Verified account @danielaleontv
Daniela Leon Retweeted Lauren Scharf
Earlier this year Judge Scott Sells ruled testing can be done on a tooth fragment found in Frazee property. No word yet on the results or information on testing.
Daniela Leon‏Verified account @danielaleontv
A lifelong family friend of #Frazee telling the court he watched how Frazee allegedly abused Berreth whole dating and says he told him he figured a way to kill her.
Daniela Leon‏Verified account @danielaleontv
I want to point out this whole time #Frazee has been stoic. During her testimony he kept looking down the entire time up until this point he’s been making eye contact with each witness.
 
If there's any justice in the world, if KK knows more than she's telling, PF will testify JUST so he can bring her down with him. All he has to say, with proof, is that she knew beforehand. Maybe he'll gamble and let that out after sentencing, if her role was even more involved. It's one thing to drive 1500 miles for a man, I wonder how KK feels now about following him to prison. I think it's called selling your soul to the devil.

MOO MOO MOO
 
Thank you everyone for the updates. JMOO . . . I am so grateful for the DA's office and their honest, hard work in bringing in all of the corroborating evidence in this case together. There is a family that will be missing their daughter/mother/sister this Thanksgiving and they need our prayers, good vibes and everything we can hope and pray for sent their way to see justice for their loved one. I am also praying that those that know the horrible things that PF did and said will tell the whole truth as we have continued to see in this case. The truth will set you free!
 
If there's any justice in the world, if KK knows more than she's telling, PF will testify JUST so he can bring her down with him. All he has to say, with proof, is that she knew beforehand. Maybe he'll gamble and let that out after sentencing, if her role was even more involved. It's one thing to drive 1500 miles for a man, I wonder how KK feels now about following him to prison. I think it's called selling your soul to the devil.

MOO MOO MOO

What I wouldn't give to see that happen! I'd love nothing more than to see them go down together. What they and yes I say they because she knew and didn't say anything, did to this beautiful girl Kelsey and her family is absolutely atrocious.
 
Exactly..... as I read through posts, especially those where folks may believe PF is not guilty, and I read their reasoning behind it, I remind myself that we are all going through this trial with second hand tweets, FB live posts, etc, forming our own interpretation based on those.... and the reporters are doing an excellent job of it. I remind myself not to get caught up in the slight difference of a word/s a witness is "reported" to have said. It's the major and obvious testimony of facts that matters the most to me. Innocent until proven guilty... of course. But PF is the guy with the bulls eye on him.... and the more I read/hear, that bow & arrow keeps raising higher and higher.... aiming towards the bulls eye.

Maybe I missed something, but I haven't seen that anyone said PF is not guilty. If someone alluded to KK being the murderess, then PF is still part of the conspiracy and the way I see it that makes him guilty as well. What I believe I'm seeing is that KK is getting a pass and not taking any of the real blame for the death of Kelsey when she played a huge role. I'm in no way saying she committed the act but I am saying she is just as complicit as PF. And I might add, I wish she was going to prison with him. IMO
 
But that's the standard way that plea agreements are negotiated, IMO. KKL's would tell her lawyer the information she had. He/she would validate that information - likely with a polygraph test. Then, the lawyer talks in hypotheticals with law enforcement without the client. If my client has information about Y, then X, etc. They draw up the list of what categories of information the witness needs to testify to to complete the agreement. Then, the statement (and likely another polygraph) is given by KKL to law enforcement AFTER the plea agreement has been reached. Clearly, the physical evidence and testimony from others corroborates what KKL said or she wouldn't be in compliance with the plea deal. This protects both sides. So, the "bullet points" or "7 agreements" are the same thing and was generated between law enforcement and KKL's lawyer, IMO. A lawyer here can correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like that's pretty standard plea agreement process.



Oh my goodness yes.



There isn't anything nefarious about it. Unless you're trying to find something - then you can make something of anything. MOO, of course.



BBM. Because the prosecution has a specific flow of testimony that they've created for the jury. They're telling the story first - the personal testimonials of what happened and next will come the forensic evidence to back that up. They aren't going to bring up ANYTHING that they can't back up with forensics or personal testimony.



BBM. We do have testimony from KKL's hearing - not this trial - that states she did carry the drugs. I had thought the same thing as you but someone provided this from KKL's hearing in Feb:

So, where they came from (did she steal them? or did she get a MD friend to write her an RX? or did she already have an RX?) and what happened to those drugs we do not know. I don't think they had anything to do with the murder



It is a massive, massive stretch. Pointed at no one in particular, some people really relish the appearance of having an open mind and maintaining the "innocent until proven guilty" ideal. Typically, I feel like those people abandon reason to try to portray that mindset.



There was testimony during KKL's plea hearing (linked above) about her having the drugs. There has been nothing to indicate she stole the medications, though.

I agree about the children. It doesn't appear she was asked about that so how could she testify about it?



No, it doesn't, but either way she lost her job. She either quit because of the publicity or she was terminated. Doesn't really matter because the end result is the same. I'd be curious if she were working anywhere right now. That's the real question, IMO.



BBM. Exactly!





The bullet points and list of 7 agreements are the same thing, IMO. Just different verbiage by different reporters.
The link from KK's hearing about carrying the drugs says blank# blocked, or something like that.
It was just a blank page so I could not read it.
What does it say?
 
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