AMBER ALERT NJ - Dulce Mariá Alavez, 5, abducted at Bridgeton City Park, Cumberland County, 16 Sept 2019 #6

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CSIDreamer said:
Anxiety, depression, PTSD, autism, learning disabilities. These can all cause varying degrees of lack of perceived "correct" emotional responses. I say "correct" because there are a wide range of emotional responses and situations.
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YES. And if Noema has any of these conditions, it is unlikely that her family would recognize them as neurological or psychological issues that are neither her fault nor her optimal state, much less know how to access help for her in coping with them. They may not even be aware that such mental health and medical resources exist.

To me it looks like this girl has been the black sheep in her family for a very long time, and the difficulties she has faced with her choices and in her family relationships may have less to do with adolescent behaviors she herself acknowledges weren't optimal, than with her affect/emotional expression and the reasons behind it. The behaviors (drugs, sexual activity, anything else) could have been her adolescent reaction to a childhood spent feeling profoundly disapproved or misunderstood or unsupported by those around her, and no one realizing she needed help. I am not trying to blame her parents; the language barrier can't have made it easy for them to communicate with teachers or school health personnel, and depending on their educational level they simply may not know about the effects of childhood trauma, mental health issues, or neuro-atypical conditions such as those of the autism spectrum.

How sad that Noema's experiences in the months since Dulce disappeared seem to have only reinforced the emotional gulf between her and those who should be her support system. I wonder if she has any friends at all who don't backstab her (like Jackie Rodriguez), or family who don't constantly remind her of the faults they perceive in her. She seems so submissive, so flat, so willing to endure being the focus of public ire, or else to fade quietly into the background. So resigned to this being her deserved and expected lot in life.

JMO, MOO
 
janewall said:
YES. And if Noema has any of these conditions, it is unlikely that her family would recognize them as neurological or psychological issues that are neither her fault nor her optimal state, much less know how to access help for her in coping with them. They may not even be aware that such mental health and medical resources exist.

To me it looks like this girl has been the black sheep in her family for a very long time, and the difficulties she has faced with her choices and in her family relationships may have less to do with adolescent behaviors she herself acknowledges weren't optimal, than with her affect/emotional expression and the reasons behind it. The behaviors (drugs, sexual activity, anything else) could have been her adolescent reaction to a childhood spent feeling profoundly disapproved or misunderstood or unsupported by those around her, and no one realizing she needed help. I am not trying to blame her parents; the language barrier can't have made it easy for them to communicate with teachers or school health personnel, and depending on their educational level they simply may not know about the effects of childhood trauma, mental health issues, or neuro-atypical conditions such as those of the autism spectrum.

How sad that Noema's experiences in the months since Dulce disappeared seem to have only reinforced the emotional gulf between her and those who should be her support system. I wonder if she has any friends at all who don't backstab her (like Jackie Rodriguez), or family who don't constantly remind her of the faults they perceive in her. She seems so submissive, so flat, so willing to endure being the focus of public ire, or else to fade quietly into the background. So resigned to this being her deserved and expected lot in life.

JMO, MOO
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Excellent post! I was just thinking about how her parents must have treated her growing up. I’m not blaming them because I don’t think they have the tools in their toolbox to ever have helped her. She got pregnant and had Dulce at 13-14. She’s on her third pregnancy now. Why didn’t they put her on birth control? Who knows- Maybe they tried. I feel for Noema. She seems to have accepted her lot in life. No one advocated or advocates for her. It’s just one more tragedy that she doesn’t have a professional missing person’s advocate there by her side.
 
I’m not picking up on any anxiety when Dr Phil started asking some of the questions in a bit more pointed manner. I would think it would trigger fight/flight or melt down if she was on the spectrum?

Wondering how she is supporting herself living apart from her parents? Was that her car she was driving?
 
Gardener1850 said:
BBM. Maybe I'm the only one who feels this way but I'm disappointed Dr. Phil did not take into account Noema's history and the fact that she is NOT the one who was raising Dulce. She had Dulce when she was 13 or 14 then had another child at 15 or 16. She is only 19 years old now and pregnant again. She never had a childhood herself but also never had to act as a mother acts towards her children. Why would we expect a mature and motherly emotional response from her? Dulce was more like another sister in Noema's life that she only saw on weekends than she was her daughter. She probably loves Dulce but it's not the same as it would be if she had had Dulce as an adult and was raising her on her own. Noema has her own problems going on and is emotionally immature because of what has happened in her life. Her saying she doesn't cry in front of people makes complete sense to me considering her background. Pregnant 3 times as a teen, a history of poverty and drug abuse tells me that she may have been abused by those men who made her pregnant and maybe by others too. She probably tried drugs to numb the pain. She is probably fighting a deep depression. The cycle of violence and abuse repeats itself and abuse victims build up a barrier for their emotions as a response. Is it any wonder she seems numb and doesn't react immediately when she is hurting? She buries her feelings with no reaction and then cries in private later. It's sometimes the only power an abuse victim feels they have-- to not let their abuser see them cry. She comes off as very timid and not as a person who is emotionally flat because they are manipulating the situation like a sociopath does. It's a shame if Dr Phil did not take the opportunity to highlight the difference between someone in Noema's situation and a sociopathic criminal that is emotionally flat because they are covering their true emotions. Has he never heard of learned helplessness as the result of abuse? Is anyone else seeing this the way I am or am I way out in left field here? MOO.
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I totally agree and think this was a stranger abduction. I'm just surprised she hasn't been found yet :(.
 
MimosaMornings said:
I’m not picking up on any anxiety when Dr Phil started asking some of the questions in a bit more pointed manner. I would think it would trigger fight/flight or melt down if she was on the spectrum?

Wondering how she is supporting herself living apart from her parents? Was that her car she was driving?
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I was just wondering myself where her money comes from. Instead of going back to school or getting a part time job she's living in a place separate from Dulce and had another child is now pregnant again. I wonder if birth control is against her family's religion? I wonder what she does all day? Has it been reported if her son lives with her? If so that could be where her time goes.

I dunno, I'm strongly feeling at this point that Noema may have an intellectual challenge. Or something. IOW I don't think it's because she doesn't care about or love Dulce. And if she (or her family) doesn't have a clue as to who could have snatched Dulce by now then once again it may be pointing to a stranger abduction. I don't know if LE actually cleared her per Dr. Phil but they haven't named her a POI either. My DVR won't record it until later tonight but it sounds like there's nothing new.

Such a strange, sad case. :(
 
MsMiniSleuth said:
So who is the 'old friend' and have they been spoken to? And for what reason would they want her child?

Sorry, I think I disagree with many of you. Have felt all along the mother knows more or has suspicions she has not divulged.

Mother of missing girl fears 'old friend' may have taken her.

Mother of missing Dulce Maria Alavez, 5, fears 'old friend' may have taken her | Daily Mail Online
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She didn't really say she "fears" this friend took her. She was asked if she could think of anyone at all and that was the only person she thought of (unrequited love). I don't think she actually thinks he did it.
 
MsMarple said:
I was just wondering myself where her money comes from. Instead of going back to school or getting a part time job she's living in a place separate from Dulce and had another child is now pregnant again. I wonder if birth control is against her family's religion? I wonder what she does all day? Has it been reported if her son lives with her? If so that could be where her time goes.

I dunno, I'm strongly feeling at this point that Noema may have an intellectual challenge. Or something. IOW I don't think it's because she doesn't care about or love Dulce. And if she (or her family) doesn't have a clue as to who could have snatched Dulce by now then once again it may be pointing to a stranger abduction. I don't know if LE actually cleared her per Dr. Phil but they haven't named her a POI either. My DVR won't record it until later tonight but it sounds like there's nothing new.

Such a strange, sad case. :(
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No, from what has been reported, son lives with his grandparents.
 
imstilla.grandma said:
In a teaser released for Friday's show, Dr. Phil McGraw interviews Dulce's mother, Noema, and a family friend.

McGraw, in the trailer, tells the girl's mother, "I've talked to a lot of mothers of abducted children, and you're the most calm I've ever talked to."

The teaser also promises a "shocking revelation" from the family friend.
Dulce Maria Alavez case to be featured on Dr. Phil
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She sure gives out the weird flat vibe. The only thing I can think of she might be medicated with anti-anxiety/depression meds.
 
It must be hard on the grandparents- they are raising a 3 year old, 5 year old (Dulce) and an 8 year old. The loss of their jobs.
And Noema not working and living elsewhere. So she wasn’t able to help with expenses for her children. How in the world is she going to provide for another child? :(
 
jjenny said:
She sure gives out the weird flat vibe. The only thing I can think of she might be medicated with anti-anxiety/depression meds.
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I think she just operates at a different frequency level. I’m not sure how much of all this she understands at a deep level.

amateur opinion and speculation
 
jjenny said:
Why would she think "old friend" might have taken Dulce? She supposedly rejected this old friend, but why would he want the child? None of it makes any sense to me.
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Maybe she was asked, "do you have any enemies?" "Is there anyone who would wish you harm?"
 
jjenny said:
Why would she think "old friend" might have taken Dulce? She supposedly rejected this old friend, but why would he want the child? None of it makes any sense to me.
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That's one of the things that makes me wonder if she does know/suspect more than she is saying publicly. I hope she has been fully forthcoming with LE.


MsMarple said:
I was just wondering myself where her money comes from. Instead of going back to school or getting a part time job she's living in a place separate from Dulce and had another child is now pregnant again. I wonder if birth control is against her family's religion? I wonder what she does all day? Has it been reported if her son lives with her? If so that could be where her time goes.

I dunno, I'm strongly feeling at this point that Noema may have an intellectual challenge. Or something. IOW I don't think it's because she doesn't care about or love Dulce. And if she (or her family) doesn't have a clue as to who could have snatched Dulce by now then once again it may be pointing to a stranger abduction. I don't know if LE actually cleared her per Dr. Phil but they haven't named her a POI either. My DVR won't record it until later tonight but it sounds like there's nothing new.

Such a strange, sad case. :(
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It is my recollection from media accounts – and I could be wrong – that Noema has a room in a building very near her parents, not a full apartment. Possibly next door to her parents. She may only have very basic resources and rely on family support for some food and rent money, even though she's not under the same roof. She may also qualify for some assistance. The entire family seems to be living on next to nothing since both of her parents were laid off after Dulce's disappearance. One misfortune after another.

It's possible her parents thought it would be good for her developmentally to experience living 'on her own', even if she was still financially dependent on them or the state, since her living at home led to frequent disagreements according to her. (Hardly an uncommon dynamic between parents and teenagers under the same roof!) Trying to launch a child who has made such missteps as multiple teen pregnancies and involvement in drugs can't be easy, whether or not there's a MH or developmental component to her issues. They may have felt, or been advised, that baby steps toward some independence and responsibility were better than allowing her to remain at home totally dependent, without being enrolled in school, and influencing her younger sister and her own children 24/7. It would be good to know if Noema's made any attempts to work full- or part-time, or otherwise occupy her time constructively with education or counseling or ....?
 
Sorry just a bunch of random thoughts after watching the episode ..

For anyone who hasn’t seen the episode
I saw there is a YouTube link for the full episode

I didn’t expect to learn much of anything new but was surprised to learn that Noema had indeed been given a polygraph. I don’t think it was ever made public that she had. I remember them saying that pregnancy impacts the results and they were waiting until she gave birth- so perhaps the results were inconclusive?

While I’m not really surprised by Noema’s lack of emotion during the interview - since she has been that way all along for whatever reason- (learning disability, trauma, substance abuse) I am surprised that pregnancy hormones haven’t really kicked in to some extent

Surprised she wasn’t even clear on what the witnesses at the basketball court claimed to see and didn’t ask law enforcement ???

not at all surprised by the spokesperson - only surprised the family has anything to do with her but I guess since she launched a go fund me on their behalf they aren’t in any position to unfriend her

regarding Manuel- (he also lived with grandparents) not really speaking - I also thought I heard him say he was cold during the candlelight vigil video but couldn’t be positive and didn’t have patience to watch it back

I guess I was most surprised by Dr Phil not mentioning Dulce father at all- even if it was just to say her father has never been in her life and was interviews and ruled out etc. Noema said police have spoken to everyone in her family .. I know her father lives in Mexico and was never in her life but there was mention of him seeking custody
at some point and he does have family locally - so I would think he would be more relevant than this old friend she spoke of

Possible she knows more than she is sharing and is perhaps afraid to disclose details and mentions this old friend as a distraction?

I believe I read early on that the car Noema was driving belonged to the grandparents but that’s when all of the articles were mysteriously disappearing so can’t be positive
 
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