IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, found deceased, Evansdale, 13 Jul 2012 #38

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SAMS said:
Trying to play catch up and the past threads (before #37) were shut down for some reason? Does anyone have any bullet points or articles that will give any of us just joining main points in the case? I have read this thread and the last one (#37).
Click to expand...

On the first page of this current thread is the timeline link. The timeline is not right at the top there, but scroll down and it is on that page. The map is linked there too. I don't know why the previous threads are not all linked, but here is a link to Thread #1 for you to start on. Also, I would recommend checking through the posts by Ollipop, who provided on the ground images.https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...yric-cook-10-evansdale-13-july-2012-1.178723/
 
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I always think about the girls this time of year. They have missed out on so many holidays, birthdays and special events.

I read an internet article on a cold case that was solved, and I was struck by one comment made by the investigator. He said that they went back and interviewed everyone again, and one person seemed to have no new info. But just as the investigator prepared to leave, the interviewee said something that put all the pieces together and directly led to the suspect being arrested. I have no idea what he said, but he apparently had never thought it was important enough to mention before.

I guess this is what LE means when they say that any info, no matter how small, is important.

Next year, probably in January, I will have a blog on Lyric and Elizabeth, as well as an internet article. I would love to stir up that one piece of info that LE is looking for!
 
Marilynilpa said:
I always think about the girls this time of year. They have missed out on so many holidays, birthdays and special events.

I read an internet article on a cold case that was solved, and I was struck by one comment made by the investigator. He said that they went back and interviewed everyone again, and one person seemed to have no new info. But just as the investigator prepared to leave, the interviewee said something that put all the pieces together and directly led to the suspect being arrested. I have no idea what he said, but he apparently had never thought it was important enough to mention before.

I guess this is what LE means when they say that any info, no matter how small, is important.

Next year, probably in January, I will have a blog on Lyric and Elizabeth, as well as an internet article. I would love to stir up that one piece of info that LE is looking for!
Click to expand...

It makes me so angry these monsters are free and able to celebrate holidays with their families despite the evil they have done whilst their victims families are suffering every day.

I have wondered for a long time if there have ever been any persons of interest in this case.

Thank you @Marilynilpa I look forward to reading your blog post and internet article. Merry Christmas to you.
 
thecatmeows said:
IF he's the kid I remember (I remember two girls and a boy in the family, and the sister's FB page lists him as the only brother, so I'm fairly certain it's him), he was a quiet kid, but polite when spoken to. His parents did enough talking for all of their kids, honestly. I texted my mom to see if she remembers anything - she still lives in the area, and I think she went to high school with his mom. She would talk to his mom and dad often. I remember he was on the bowling team. I plan to see if I can find my senior yearbook when I'm home for Christmas in 2 weeks, because he should have been a sophomore that year. I think the reason I was thinking he was older, honestly, was because he seemed more "mature" in his demeanor than his sister, but looking back, I don't remember him being in school when I started but he was still there when I graduated.

I hadn't heard the girls stopped and asked for directions to the lake. Sounds like it's a rumor, but possible - I don't think I would have known how to get there by myself at their age; I remember asking my mom for directions on how to get there around their age. This case is all so eerie for me, since I rode my bike the same paths they did when I was growing up.

I can say with absolute certainty the last time I saw the parents was at Fareway, circa 2013. That's actually the time I was thinking of, because I remember the dad always made me uncomfortable so I wasn't thrilled to see them. I can also say they did not live in Cedar Falls when they were growing up. The kids went to East, so they lived in Evansdale or East Waterloo. My mom might know. It looks like part of the family lives in Colorado now and parts are still in the Waterloo area.

UPDATE: Apparently, Patrick has a cousin, and he's the kid on the bowling team I was thinking about. I did know Patrick's sister, and she was often seen with her cousin around town. His cousin was also the one on the bowling team. Also, it was Patrick's aunt and uncle who my mom was friends with and I saw at Fareway.
Click to expand...
Do you remember what it was about the father that made you uncomfortable?
 
zencompass said:
My heart goes out to Elizabeth and Lyric's families.

Hoping and praying that this case eventually does get solved.

I read the following article, especially noting how L.E. consider these double abductions "rare". Makes me wonder how "rare" they are.

I don't think the L.E. can dismiss Jeff Lee Altmayer as a viable suspect.

"Authorities have declined to comment on any investigation into possible links between Jeff Lee Altmayer and the disappearance and deaths of cousins Lyric Cook-Morrissey and Elizabeth Collins."

"In the past, authorities have commented about the rarity of double abductions when talking about the cousins case, and Black Hawk County Sheriff Tony Thompson said he found “interesting” the fact at least one of Altmayer’s crimes involve approaching a pair of girls at the same time."



Does Altmayer arrest have any connection to missing cousins case?
Click to expand...

These girls brought me to Websleuths. I live in Iowa, the Des Moines area and I still remember, 7.5 years later, exactly where I was when this case hit the local news that day (in my garage, getting out of my car after work and got a local breaking news alert on my phone). I searched the Internet for anything related to this case, which brought me here a day later and have been a member since July 14th, 2012.

I cannot get this man out of my head as a very real possibility. I was the first to post about his arrest on the prior thread back in November 2016 (I’m sure it would have been posted if I didn’t, so I’m not trying to say I’m responsible for that knowledge - just wanting to give a frame of reference for how long I’ve been thinking about this and how much it made an impression on me!)

Anyways, I’m not sure how to quote posts from old threads, so I just wanted to note some things I talked about back then that I had since forgotten.

1. The arrest for the attempted kidnapping of a 6 year old girl included Impersonating a Public Official - a police officer per news reports at the time. We’ve speculated a lot that the perp may have gotten the girls to go willingly with them at the time of the abduction.

2. He was self-employed - he traveled the state an an auto damage appraiser. Possibly no employer to notice he was gone on a Friday then? Opportunity to be near Evansdale?

3. He lived in Ankeny and the crime was in Onawa - a 2.5 hour drive. Why was he so far from home?

4. Officials said he was trying to lure the two girls he attempted to kidnap to a mobile home near Dike (Onawa to Dike is a 3 hour drive, Ankeny to Dike is a 1.5 hour drive, and most interestingly, Evansdale to Dike is a 22 minute drive)

5. In February 2018, he was also sentenced to life for kidnapping and sexual abuse in a different incident in Colfax that occurred in August 2016, just 3 months prior to the November 2016 incident that made the news - it had gone unsolved until he was arrested for the November 2016 incident and he was connected. In the August 2016 incident, he tried to lure two 11-12 year old girls into his car with a $100 bill to do some yard work. One girl got in the car where he sexually abused her before she was able to escape. Again, for reference, Colfax to Dike is 1.5 hours, Colfax to Ankeny is 27 minutes, Colfax to Onawa is 2.45 minutes and Colfax to Evansdale is 1.45 hours).

6. In a May 2018 news article, the Iowa DCI stated they believed he was responsible for enticement crimes extending to at least 19 girls in nine counties. The age range of the girls was 6-13, with an average age of 10. Several incidents were near local parks. Almost always he would use a $100 bill to entice them to get in his vehicle for various reasons. Besides the angle of impersonating a police officer, I can see a $100 bill being very appealing to an 8 and 11 yr old girl.

7. It doesn’t appear he’s been ruled out as a suspect. Your article from April 2017 stated he hasn’t been ruled out as a suspect and the most recent article I could find referencing him as a suspect was the May 2018 article stating that he was examined as a suspect, but no indication that he has been cleared.

Conviction upheld for Ankeny man charged with luring girls

A stranger with $100 bills: How an Iowa man tried to kidnap at least 19 kids across the state
 
Emerald1328 said:
These girls brought me to Websleuths. I live in Iowa, the Des Moines area and I still remember, 7.5 years later, exactly where I was when this case hit the local news that day (in my garage, getting out of my car after work and got a local breaking news alert on my phone). I searched the Internet for anything related to this case, which brought me here a day later and have been a member since July 14th, 2012.

I cannot get this man out of my head as a very real possibility. I was the first to post about his arrest on the prior thread back in November 2016 (I’m sure it would have been posted if I didn’t, so I’m not trying to say I’m responsible for that knowledge - just wanting to give a frame of reference for how long I’ve been thinking about this and how much it made an impression on me!)

Anyways, I’m not sure how to quote posts from old threads, so I just wanted to note some things I talked about back then that I had since forgotten.

1. The arrest for the attempted kidnapping of a 6 year old girl included Impersonating a Public Official - a police officer per news reports at the time. We’ve speculated a lot that the perp may have gotten the girls to go willingly with them at the time of the abduction.

2. He was self-employed - he traveled the state an an auto damage appraiser. Possibly no employer to notice he was gone on a Friday then? Opportunity to be near Evansdale?

3. He lived in Ankeny and the crime was in Onawa - a 2.5 hour drive. Why was he so far from home?

4. Officials said he was trying to lure the two girls he attempted to kidnap to a mobile home near Dike (Onawa to Dike is a 3 hour drive, Ankeny to Dike is a 1.5 hour drive, and most interestingly, Evansdale to Dike is a 22 minute drive)

5. In February 2018, he was also sentenced to life for kidnapping and sexual abuse in a different incident in Colfax that occurred in August 2016, just 3 months prior to the November 2016 incident that made the news - it had gone unsolved until he was arrested for the November 2016 incident and he was connected. In the August 2016 incident, he tried to lure two 11-12 year old girls into his car with a $100 bill to do some yard work. One girl got in the car where he sexually abused her before she was able to escape. Again, for reference, Colfax to Dike is 1.5 hours, Colfax to Ankeny is 27 minutes, Colfax to Onawa is 2.45 minutes and Colfax to Evansdale is 1.45 hours).

6. In a May 2018 news article, the Iowa DCI stated they believed he was responsible for enticement crimes extending to at least 19 girls in nine counties. The age range of the girls was 6-13, with an average age of 10. Several incidents were near local parks. Almost always he would use a $100 bill to entice them to get in his vehicle for various reasons. Besides the angle of impersonating a police officer, I can see a $100 bill being very appealing to an 8 and 11 yr old girl.

7. It doesn’t appear he’s been ruled out as a suspect. Your article from April 2017 stated he hasn’t been ruled out as a suspect and the most recent article I could find referencing him as a suspect was the May 2018 article stating that he was examined as a suspect, but no indication that he has been cleared.

Conviction upheld for Ankeny man charged with luring girls

A stranger with $100 bills: How an Iowa man tried to kidnap at least 19 kids across the state
Click to expand...
Thinking you first posted about that guy at the bottom of the thread at this link, more discussion follows on the next page.
URL="Found Deceased - IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #37"]IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #37[/URL]
 
Angelcat13 said:
Do you remember what it was about the father that made you uncomfortable?
Click to expand...

Hi, I actually posted later that it occurred to me it was his uncle, not his father directly. This guy's sister was in my class and I often saw her spending time with her aunt, uncle, and cousin. I don't remember seeing Patrick, but from what I can tell from his social media page is he went to Expo High School (the alternative school in town). He was also a couple years younger. The uncle was always telling me to smile, which made me uncomfortable. And we're talking every time I saw the guy. I really disliked him.

Emerald1328 said:
These girls brought me to Websleuths. I live in Iowa, the Des Moines area and I still remember, 7.5 years later, exactly where I was when this case hit the local news that day (in my garage, getting out of my car after work and got a local breaking news alert on my phone). I searched the Internet for anything related to this case, which brought me here a day later and have been a member since July 14th, 2012.

I cannot get this man out of my head as a very real possibility. I was the first to post about his arrest on the prior thread back in November 2016 (I’m sure it would have been posted if I didn’t, so I’m not trying to say I’m responsible for that knowledge - just wanting to give a frame of reference for how long I’ve been thinking about this and how much it made an impression on me!)

Anyways, I’m not sure how to quote posts from old threads, so I just wanted to note some things I talked about back then that I had since forgotten.

1. The arrest for the attempted kidnapping of a 6 year old girl included Impersonating a Public Official - a police officer per news reports at the time. We’ve speculated a lot that the perp may have gotten the girls to go willingly with them at the time of the abduction.

2. He was self-employed - he traveled the state an an auto damage appraiser. Possibly no employer to notice he was gone on a Friday then? Opportunity to be near Evansdale?

3. He lived in Ankeny and the crime was in Onawa - a 2.5 hour drive. Why was he so far from home?

4. Officials said he was trying to lure the two girls he attempted to kidnap to a mobile home near Dike (Onawa to Dike is a 3 hour drive, Ankeny to Dike is a 1.5 hour drive, and most interestingly, Evansdale to Dike is a 22 minute drive)

5. In February 2018, he was also sentenced to life for kidnapping and sexual abuse in a different incident in Colfax that occurred in August 2016, just 3 months prior to the November 2016 incident that made the news - it had gone unsolved until he was arrested for the November 2016 incident and he was connected. In the August 2016 incident, he tried to lure two 11-12 year old girls into his car with a $100 bill to do some yard work. One girl got in the car where he sexually abused her before she was able to escape. Again, for reference, Colfax to Dike is 1.5 hours, Colfax to Ankeny is 27 minutes, Colfax to Onawa is 2.45 minutes and Colfax to Evansdale is 1.45 hours).

6. In a May 2018 news article, the Iowa DCI stated they believed he was responsible for enticement crimes extending to at least 19 girls in nine counties. The age range of the girls was 6-13, with an average age of 10. Several incidents were near local parks. Almost always he would use a $100 bill to entice them to get in his vehicle for various reasons. Besides the angle of impersonating a police officer, I can see a $100 bill being very appealing to an 8 and 11 yr old girl.

7. It doesn’t appear he’s been ruled out as a suspect. Your article from April 2017 stated he hasn’t been ruled out as a suspect and the most recent article I could find referencing him as a suspect was the May 2018 article stating that he was examined as a suspect, but no indication that he has been cleared.

Conviction upheld for Ankeny man charged with luring girls

A stranger with $100 bills: How an Iowa man tried to kidnap at least 19 kids across the state
Click to expand...

:wave: Fellow Central Iowan here (who grew up in the Elk Run/Evansdale area). This is also the crime that originally brought me to Websleuths back in 2012 as a lurker. It hits way too close to home, and at the time I had a little sister not much older than Lyric. This case deeply affected her childhood, and she stopped playing outside after this.

I hope police get a lead soon. It would be great to finally have answers.
 
Wondering if the FBI ever update/change/revise ect. an offender profile after one has been released?
Would they do an "aged" psychological composite of the perp in the same way they might age/alter a photo of a suspect as to how he would look in the future?

In short, has the perp changed- or the perception of the type of perp changed?
What would he most likely be doing now, years after the crime?
imo, speculation.

August 22, 2014
Investigators Release Suspect Profile in Murder of Evansdale Cousins
"Investigators in Evansdale believe the person who abducted two girls in July 2012 is likely from the area. The information comes from newly released details about a profile developed by the FBI’s Behavioral Analysis Unit, which develops profiles of suspects."
  • The suspect may have been experiencing stress related to legal troubles, spousal problems, employment difficulties, financial strain or mental health issues in July 2012.
  • The suspect may avoid discussing the case or showing interest in the matter but is likely following developments in the media.
  • The offender may have attempted to abduct children or adults in the past.
  • Following the disappearance, the suspect may have altered his or her physical appearance, such as changing hair style and facial hair. The offender’s vehicle may also have been altered with a new paint job or re-upholstery.
“The offender blends in with and may be part of the Evansdale, Bremer and surrounding communities. It is unlikely that the offender is a transient or someone who was merely traveling or ‘passing through’ the area,” according to the site. The suspect likely used “quiet coercion” to gain the girls’ compliance into leaving Meyers Lake, using a ruse or threats of violence.''
 
In the offender profile in my above post, something caught my attention that i never paid attention to before, although i must have read it a gazillion times since the murders..rbbm.
Possibly someone who would abduct an adults as well as children, must be a very particular sort of offender, imo, speculation.rbbm.
" The offender may have attempted to abduct children or adults in the past."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/profiling-abductors-q-a-with-brad-garrett-1.999522
June 23, 2011

"There are people who abduct children, abductors who do it for money or politics, people who take someone hostage when a crime goes awry and people whose abductions may seem to be random. What are the major differences between these groups for a criminal profiler?

There are big differences there. Clearly child and adult abductors have different preferences but the motivations can be similar: domination, control and sexual desire."

"In general, they feel inadequate and one of the things in abducting, controlling and sexual assaulting is: it's about power. They are in charge, they are doing what they want to do, not what someone else wants them to do. They get what they want.


It's a totally selfish, narcissistic behaviour."
 
Just listened to the heartbreaking interview Elizabeth's dad did on the Murder In My Family podcast. What a tragedy. Hard to believe it hasn't been solved. @dotr that profile is soooo similar to what they said about Delphi. I know they aren't linked, but it sure makes you want to watch for those things in the people around you. Yikes.
 
UnderstandBlue said:
Just listened to the heartbreaking interview Elizabeth's dad did on the Murder In My Family podcast. What a tragedy. Hard to believe it hasn't been solved. @dotr that profile is soooo similar to what they said about Delphi. I know they aren't linked, but it sure makes you want to watch for those things in the people around you. Yikes.
Click to expand...


Why can’t they be linked? Do you know any other cases where two girls were abducted and murdered? It’s a very rare occurrence. In the end it’s going to be the same guy.
 
Falcon500 said:
Why can’t they be linked? Do you know any other cases where two girls were abducted and murdered? It’s a very rare occurrence. In the end it’s going to be the same guy.
Click to expand...

Oh I know - it seems so likely - I just meant officially linked. LE has ruled out a link, for the most part - Evansdale, Indiana double-homicide links 'coincidental,' Indiana State Police say but say they're "open to it".

The child abduction expert talks about how unlikely a double abduction and murder of children is on the podcast - it's astonishing to me to see two of them.
 
Falcon500 said:
Why can’t they be linked? Do you know any other cases where two girls were abducted and murdered? It’s a very rare occurrence. In the end it’s going to be the same guy.
Click to expand...

my thoughts exactly. I don’t understand how they are ruling it out being the same person.
 
PezCandy said:
my thoughts exactly. I don’t understand how they are ruling it out being the same person.
Click to expand...


They aren’t ruling it out. What the police say publicly and what they really think are two different things. If they made an announcement like “Oh yeah we really think it’s the same guy in both cases” and it turns out that it’s not the same guy the defense attorney will jump all over that at trial and your case is blown to hell.

That’s why the term “person of interest” was invented thirty years ago. You never want to call someone a suspect unless there is a warrant for him and he’s running.
 
Falcon500 said:
They aren’t ruling it out. What the police say publicly and what they really think are two different things. If they made an announcement like “Oh yeah we really think it’s the same guy in both cases” and it turns out that it’s not the same guy the defense attorney will jump all over that at trial and your case is blown to hell.

That’s why the term “person of interest” was invented thirty years ago. You never want to call someone a suspect unless there is a warrant for him and he’s running.
Click to expand...

I see your point, it’s such a frustrating case. I was hoping both sets of girls would have had justice by now.
 
UnderstandBlue said:
Oh I know - it seems so likely - I just meant officially linked. LE has ruled out a link, for the most part - Evansdale, Indiana double-homicide links 'coincidental,' Indiana State Police say but say they're "open to it".

The child abduction expert talks about how unlikely a double abduction and murder of children is on the podcast - it's astonishing to me to see two of them.
Click to expand...

And there was a third instance. Michael Klunder abducted two girls, just down the road from Evansdale. But LE has stated that they can rule him out. I still wonder, though.
 
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