NY NY - NY, 201 W 24th St, WhtMale 20-40, UP6896, box on sdwlk, Tatts: Libra, Oct 3, butterfly, Feb'96

[Baudelaire]

Request denied. They say contact the ME. Will the ME have his prints? If we could attach his prints to the foil request perhaps it would narrow things down for them. In any case, I don't know what to do next and I only have 30 days to appeal to them. Any ideas?

 

[Bit of hope]

Request denied. They say contact the ME. Will the ME have his prints? If we could attach his prints to the foil request perhaps it would narrow things down for them. In any case, I don't know what to do next and I only have 30 days to appeal to them. Any ideas?

Thanks Baudelaire for your efforts. Doe network says there are fingerprints available, but I really don't know who has them...not even sure if I know how that works exactly, I guess LE has them and/or the ME who did the autopsy, but at least there has to be someone to compare them with.

 

[Bit of hope]

Could it be that the scales mean justice? Just a thought. Long shot....rhetorical question....why put libra above and a date....sorry.....hahaha, this case is frustrating me....

 

[Bit of hope]

Scrolled through Canadian missing cases but at the main site only years are listed....(probably due to privacy law) but sorry this is a national side...never saw such an unfriendly, bad organized site. Even Poland has a more accurate site.

 

[DaisyChains]

these photos are all from 1988 from the NYC DOB site they are from 1988 but by 1996 it pretty much looked similar

View attachment 129265this is a photo of the building the that the box with the guy was found in front of it probably did not have scaffolding by 1996 but who knows

View attachment 129266this is the building right across the street from where the man and the box were found not the large building that we see on google maps now I think new building was built in 2000

View attachment 129267this is the building that I had posted earlier by mistake.. its a little down the block across the street

View attachment 129268these are the 3 little buildings in between the building that the guy was found and the Fashion school.. those buildings are still there also..you can see them on google the trees are much larger

anyway I had found these and thought I should post to give a little more idea of what it looked like then

Wow obviously the victim was a quick body drop! Thanks for the visuals. The perp defo wanted his face/identity kept secret. Perp didn’t manage to get rid of the identifiers like tats and such. Another reason why I think this was an amateur job that probably involved intoxication, arguments, and accidents. Perhaps the perp even felt close to the victim - which could explain why they couldn’t fully mutilate his remains for purposes of keeping ID hidden. Also explains why they practically wanted his remains to be found/respected (or perhaps perp just didn’t have transport for the body!).

 

[madamx]

Bumping

 

[Baudelaire]

Bumping

Cheers for the bump. Who lives in New York that has time on their hands who is willing to do a bit of legwork on a long shot? Madamx, are you in NY? It's a very long shot, but what about going to the New York Times mortuary?

I can't access mortuary pages without paying so I declined to do so. My idea was looking for newspaper articles around that date. Did they maybe report on it? If they did, did they perhaps have other articles around that time about homeless shelters around the fashion Institute?

Like I said it's a long shot but there could have been shelters that have since moved or closed. Some shelters did take names back then and people signed in and out.

If we got supremely, incredibly lucky, we might find the name of the shelter where the doe was before he was killed. Its been a really long time already but there may be something someone remembers.

On another matter, did anyone find out if the other doe (female), Bonnie corresponded with me so I hope she sees this, was ever excluded for definite. I heard nothing back from the police who were supposed to be talking to the police here.

Getting back to this doe, sorry this is so disjointed, I just don't have the extra time to be here as often as I like, there are so many assumptions. What if I'm assuming incorrectly and this wasn't a murder but death due to over exposure and a carelessly lit fire. Someone did say this was right in front of the fashion institute, what if they just moved the body and the box off their turf because they didn't want to be hassled?

If so, can the institute provide us with a list of employees at that time specifically the security guards?

I'm thinking this is 30 years later and if we want this solved, it has to happen now before people around at that time die of old age, because the memory of our doe will die with them. I wish Mongo the Magnificent was alive and real.

 

[madamx]

Cheers for the bump. Who lives in New York that has time on their hands who is willing to do a bit of legwork on a long shot? Madamx, are you in NY? It's a very long shot, but what about going to the New York Times mortuary?

I can't access mortuary pages without paying so I declined to do so. My idea was looking for newspaper articles around that date. Did they maybe report on it? If they did, did they perhaps have other articles around that time about homeless shelters around the fashion Institute?

Like I said it's a long shot but there could have been shelters that have since moved or closed. Some shelters did take names back then and people signed in and out.

If we got supremely, incredibly lucky, we might find the name of the shelter where the doe was before he was killed. Its been a really long time already but there may be something someone remembers.

On another matter, did anyone find out if the other doe (female), Bonnie corresponded with me so I hope she sees this, was ever excluded for definite. I heard nothing back from the police who were supposed to be talking to the police here.

Getting back to this doe, sorry this is so disjointed, I just don't have the extra time to be here as often as I like, there are so many assumptions. What if I'm assuming incorrectly and this wasn't a murder but death due to over exposure and a carelessly lit fire. Someone did say this was right in front of the fashion institute, what if they just moved the body and the box off their turf because they didn't want to be hassled?

If so, can the institute provide us with a list of employees at that time specifically the security guards?

I'm thinking this is 30 years later and if we want this solved, it has to happen now before people around at that time die of old age, because the memory of our doe will die with them. I wish Mongo the Magnificent was alive and real.

Baudelaire thank you for bumping this guy again ..yes Iam in NY but don't goon pages I have to pay for. I try an do everything I can for free. I have looked through everything I can think of already and shared it here. I don't know if anyone else can try find any more info on this guy and this case.

 

[Baudelaire]

Could you actually physically go to the offices of the New York Times and ask them to look in their morgue? I think that will be for free.

 

[madamx]

I came across this from 1977 and I thought it was interesting..not to far from this john doe.

NYC 1977: 02/01/1977 - 03/01/1977

Woman’s Body Found on 39th St.; Elevator Operator Held in the Slaying

The body of a young Brooklyn woman who was eight months’ pregnant was discovered yesterday in a cardboard box on a sidewalk in the garment center. Ten hours later the police took into custody a part-time elevator operator in a building she had visited. According to the police, the woman, 21-year-old Rachel Brecher, the wife of a rabbinical student, was forced into a large oil-burning furnace in the basement of the building she had visited on Thursday afternoon to buy a coat. The Medical Examiner’s office determined the cause of death to be asphyxiation. The police said the asphyxiation had been caused by the fire. Mrs. Brecher’s body-nude, charred and blood stained- was found with a shopping bag in a cardboard box in front of 244 West 39th Street, where she visited the Gabriel Coat and Suit Company. A sanitation man discovered it at 1 AM yesterday.

At about 9 PM on Thursday night, Mrs. Brecher’s parents, Leah and Harry Klein, went to the building in the hope of finding their daughter, when she failed to return home. They later recalled having passed the cardboard box in which the body had been placed.

 

[madamx]

Could you actually physically go to the offices of the New York Times and ask them to look in their morgue? I think that will be for free.

I wish I could..I have no time during the day to go there though.

 

[Baudelaire]

I wish I could..I have no time during the day to go there though.

Thanks for the reply. Thanks for posting the 77 case. Possible that our doe died the same way? Heating himself next to a basement furnace?

 

[madamx]

Thanks for the reply. Thanks for posting the 77 case. Possible that our doe died the same way? Heating himself next to a basement furnace?

Yes I was thinking maybe that could of happened especially since it was cold? Just a thought.

 

[Baudelaire]

I came across this unidentified guy on the doe network.. I looked but could not find a thread for him so I decided to start one..

I noticed written on Namus and the Doe it says Scale on his forearm, but I noticed in the photo above it says Libra and under it has what looks like letters. I have had a hard time making it out..looks to me like OCC3 or OCG3 or OGC3.. I could maybe be OCT3 like his birthday ? Libra runs from the end of September to the Mid of October.. again just some thoughts




Unidentified Person Case

View attachment 128700View attachment 128701View attachment 128702



The Doe Network: Case File 1116UMNY

Unidentified White Male

The victim was discovered on February 12, 1996 in New York City, New York County, New York
Charred/burned Remains


Vital Statistics
Estimated age: 20-40 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: 72"; 145 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: 3" light brown, curly hair.

Tattoos:
Butterfly on right shoulder,
Scales on the right forearm,
"**** You" on upper left back.

Dentals: Available
Fingerprints: Available


Case History
The victim was located in a cardboard box which was on fire on sidewalk in front of 201 West 24th Street.

Seems not, if he burnt to death in front of a furnace in the basement, how come he's found in a burning box? Unless the caretaker or guard at the Fashion Institute (still my prime person of interest) dragged an already deceased body up from the basement, put said body into a box on the sidewalk and set it alight.

People only go to that kind of trouble to avoid culpability or if they're hiding something. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Baudelaire]

But it's totally plausible that he did die heating himself in front of a furnace. I agree with that, what I don't get is the way he was found. That suggests a cover up.

 

[madamx]

But it's totally plausible that he did die heating himself in front of a furnace. I agree with that, what I don't get is the way he was found. That suggests a cover up.

Yes Iam feeling a cover up on this guy also.

 

[Bit of hope]

Seems not, if he burnt to death in front of a furnace in the basement, how come he's found in a burning box? Unless the caretaker or guard at the Fashion Institute (still my prime person of interest) dragged an already deceased body up from the basement, put said body into a box on the sidewalk and set it alight.

People only go to that kind of trouble to avoid culpability or if they're hiding something. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I agree with you. Finding a deceased body in a basement or on the sidewalk and putting it in a box to get rid of it seems plausible. Not wanting to be implicated or stay away from a lot of messy trouble. But why also set the box/body on fire? The reason for that would be most likely that somebody killed this person and wanted to cover things up. Could also be just a coincidence, a set of circumstances. Setting "hobo's" on fire is for some people a "fun" thing to do, it seems. I wonder if there was anything still visible in UID's lungs so they could establish if this person was still alive when set on fire. (maybe it's somewhere in the file or in this thread, can't recall right now) They know he had brown curly hair...and they know his tattoos, so he was not totally carbonized.

 

[madamx]

I agree with you. Finding a deceased body in a basement or on the sidewalk and putting it in a box to get rid of it seems plausible. Not wanting to be implicated or stay away from a lot of messy trouble. But why also set the box/body on fire? The reason for that would be most likely that somebody killed this person and wanted to cover things up. Could also be just a coincidence, a set of circumstances. Setting "hobo's" on fire is for some people a "fun" thing to do, it seems. I wonder if there was anything still visible in UID's lungs so they could establish if this person was still alive when set on fire. (maybe it's somewhere in the file or in this thread, can't recall right now) They know he had brown curly hair...and they know his tattoos, so he was not totally carbonized.

I don't recall seeing any info on his lungs.

 

[Crimsonrosetail]

Is it even possible for him to be ID'd now? Namus doesn't have anything on him, no DNA, no fingerprints, nothing. The contacts listed are blank too which makes it seems like no one is working on it, the only contact listed is the regional case manager...

I dunno I'm still new to the whole ID of UIDs but..., that's kind of hard to do when you don't have anything to work with isn't it?

 

[Crimsonrosetail]

Edit:
didn't mean to come off as snarky, condescending, or uncaring ><;
I just took a look at his NAMUS page was all and it didn't seem like much was going on though they don't really tell 'us' (the public) about having DNA or Fingerprints on file anymore do they? I might be wrong on that...