Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #19

[passthepopcorn]

Do you mind me asking why "out of debt?"

Like one view with climate (or other) disasters inbound, would be to have as much debt as possible

Living within my means/Being out of debt is one area where my passion/deeper knowledge was first gained actually from sources other than the LDS Church (mainly from Dave Ramsey). But it is taught in the church— although I would say actually pretty infrequently. Here is an excerpt of counsel from 2004 regarding debt from the LDS church:

“Look to the condition of your finances. Discipline yourself in your purchases, avoiding debt to the extent you can. In most cases, you can avoid debt by managing your resources wisely. If you do incur debt, such as a reasonable amount in order to purchase a modest home or complete your education, work to repay it as quickly as possible and free yourself from bondage. When you have paid your debts and accumulated some savings, you will be prepared for financial storms that may come your way. You will have shelter for your family and peace in your heart” (True to the Faith, 2004, 48–49).

I am a huge proponent of being debt free as it provides peace — financially and in all aspects of my life.

 

[jjenny]

I think the hot spring theory is a little far-fetched, MOO. I've been to Yellowstone a few times and while I agree that ending up in a hot spring there is far easier than one might think, I wasn't at any hot springs that weren't populated with a lot of tourists around! It just seems like a really risky way to get rid of someone without being seen. I suppose maybe they knew of some off the beaten path hot springs, though....MOO

We are not talking about hot springs where you can soak. We are talking about pools of acidic water that would kill someone if that someone went into it, and then completely dissolve the body. Why exactly would tourists populate such areas?

 

[Gardener1850]

I’ve only been following this case for a couple of days, so forgive me if this question has been covered a million times but when was the fight between Lori and Alex? After watching the first half of the Dateline special, in which Lori’s Hawaii friend says she claimed to be expecting a phone call any day to say Charles was dead, I wondered if maybe Alex was supposed to have taken care of that while Lori was in Hawaii and she was mad that he screwed up the plan.

It was stated in a January 2020 interview with Alex's neighbor in San Tan Valley that the fight between Lori and Alex happened "about a year ago": Mom of missing Idaho kids screamed at her killer brother that he brought disgrace on their family' | Daily Mail Online

So it happened around Jan or Feb 2019. And yes, your impression is correct. That was around the same time period when Lori was MIA to Charles and went off with Tylee to stay with her friend April in Kauai. I have long held the same theory as you about the reason for that arguement. I think that fight between Lori and Alex was either before she left for HI and she was angry at Alex because he didn't want to kill Charles (or maybe he had made an attempt we are not aware of and failed?) OR that fight was just after Lori came back from HI and she was angry at Alex because Charles wasn't dead yet. MOO.

I believe that Lori has a habit of lying about her husbands to her friends and family members in order to gain sympathy and persuade them to do what she wants. We saw this tactic when she told her friend April that Charles had been cheating and had turned mean, almost abusive. April says on Dateline that she didn't really believe it about Charles but she also shared she has her own history of divorce. Lori might have used her friend's own history to her advantage to try to gain sympathy (and probably free room and board with April too). We heard from a former friend of Lori's in the very beginning of this case that at one time years ago Lori threatened to lie and falsely claim that Tylee's dad JR was sexually abusing Tylee: ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019

Was that possibly a lie she had told Alex to motivate him to attack her ex-husband/Tylee's dad, Joe Ryan with a stun gun in 2007? We don't know what lies she told her family, but I can very well imagine a scenario wherein Lori possibly started claiming that Charles was abusive and told Alex he needed to stand up for her by "taking care of" CV for good. This is all speculation at this point but a scenario such as that would make sense of Lori's purported words to Alex of "you are bringing disgrace on the family" (my paraphrase/not a direct quote). I can't think of any other reason she would have said something like that to Alex at that time. She was either trying to persuade him to do something or was angry that he hadn't yet been persuaded.

MOO.

 

[FindingJoLee]

Do you mind me asking why "out of debt?"

Like one view with climate (or other) disasters inbound, would be to have as much debt as possible

That is, for sure, one view. You really can't take it with you.

I think it has very little (nothing??) to do with end times. Unless the end times are next week or next month, maybe next year. Being debt-free and saving money secures a lot of peace of mind and pairs well with a modest (in the broader sense) lifestyle. One or two generations below me, younger people are looking at really economical ways of living (tiny house, recycling, etc.) because they don't want to be tied to a mortgage or credit card debt. Being debt-free is an LDS principle but it's far from an original idea.

 

[utahobserver]

I think in that third type you're going to have a mixture of groups going on there. Some are very into JR the author, some are into Chad, some are into various others of influence right now, and some hop around and take a sprinkling of everything. I think among the Chad groupies you're going to find those like MG who have internal moral values that say, "nope, I don't lie for people". And you're going to have the other kind who justify away any morals by saying it's for the "greater good" in helping the almighty god-ordained Chad and god-like Lori... it's the second sort that might help them. I know one commenter and fierce defender that has gone to great lengths already to deny that they have ever done anything wrong. I think this person is on a fast track to worshiping the pair of them.

Are these folks just your friends on FB? You said you aren't a member of the other known groups. You may want to become a VI. I don't want you to compromise yourself or your relationships, but you seem to have very good insight into these "third group" folks...

 

[Hippononymous]

We are not talking about hot springs where you can soak. We are talking about pools of acidic water that would kill someone if that someone went into it, and then completely dissolve the body. Why exactly would tourists populate such areas?

Yes, I know, and I have been to these hot springs. They have boardwalks around them so people can see them. Some of them are incredibly beautiful and it's very cool to see them bubbling.

 

[BigAl16]

I think the hot spring theory is a little far-fetched, MOO. I've been to Yellowstone a few times and while I agree that ending up in a hot spring there is far easier than one might think, I wasn't at any hot springs that weren't populated with a lot of tourists around! It just seems like a really risky way to get rid of someone without being seen. I suppose maybe they knew of some off the beaten path hot springs, though....MOO

That's it. You went to the obvious heavily populated ones. But I'm pretty sure there are some that are off the beaten path a bit, maybe even involving a short hike, where you don't get a lot of people.

 

[jjenny]

Yes, I know, and I have been to these hot springs. They have boardwalks around them so people can see them. Some of them are incredibly beautiful and it's very cool to see them bubbling.

It might be cool to see them bubbling, but if you were to fall in, you will dissolve to nothing.

 

[FindingJoLee]

Someone inquired earlier about what has drawn people to this case. This is my first post to the forum, although I have been lurking (okay, let's be honest, obsessing) for the past few weeks. Following these threads has been a fascinating and sometimes heartbreaking exercise, and I have learned so much from all of you.

I have an LDS background, and am familiar with many of the geographical locations associated with this case. My biggest draw to the story is the fact that I witnessed a very close family member become quickly and heavily involved in the extreme "prepper" movement -- believing in visions and end of times prophecies, tens of thousands of dollars spent on supplies, a detailed plan to head to the hills when the "calling out" occurred. These actions caused great concern to nearly everyone around them. Efforts to reason with this person generally failed. It was scary. Gratefully, over time, and after certain prophecies didn't come to fulfillment (JR the author's earthquake prediction, for example), the level of intensity/involvement for my family member lessened. They have not been closely associated with Chad & Lori's subgroup, and claim to have pulled back from being as active in AVOW and the other group for the past two years. But at the height of their involvement, it was alarming and frankly very frightening to see how quickly they became immersed in that radical mindset.

Because of that experience and what I observed, I initially held out hope that Tylee and JJ had been hidden with like-minded folks. As time has gone on, watching everything that has unfolded and with no sign of the kids, that hope has diminished. I broke down and cried yesterday after seeing Lori in court. It's finally sinking into my heart that the children are probably gone.
(my opinion only)

Thank you to those in this forum who have provided such valuable information, particularly the verified insiders. Also, huge shout-out to @Gardener1850 for the incredible job on the timeline.

Thanks for sharing (and hello!!) I'm fascinated by the interest!

 

[BluebirdFla]

Daybells' neighbor in Idaho captures last known video of JJ Vallow 1:13 in the video.
The woman is tall and also walks with a bit of hunched shoulders (again, it's a tall thing like Chad). Arms wide and waving either for balance or excited. Long dark brown hair. She's tall. As you see her get to the door, she's nearly as tall or possibly taller on the concrete pavement as Lori is in the house up the step.
Attached is my estimation of the step height. The photos show what I mean by height comparison as well as the photo of unit 175 (Lori's unit). If the door is standard 80 inches tall, the step is appx 5 inches. If the two women are equal height while Lori inside on the step and other woman on the concrete slab, then woman is appx 5 inches taller than Lori. Lori is 5'6" tall. This woman is likely at least 5'11" or 6' tall. I can think of one possible example of a woman that tall. Just watch her podcasts in the car, she hunches over but the top of her head is very tall compared to the car. Chad is over six feet tall and while he is slouching in the photo just a little, he's about the same height as the woman next to him.
Totally MOO. It might be some other random tall woman with dark brown hair come to visit Lori who may have also known Chad on a day when Chad was possibly also at the residence who may have wanted to discuss the death of his late wife. I don't know. Total speculation.

Maybe this was the new babysitter. Maybe this is LE hinting that they have lots of electronic evidence? The person who you are eluding to lives in Kansas I think. It may be her. Could be a neighbor. It's hard to tell.

 

[Rush4087]

I just found this report that says police have talked with MB the niece, and the court documents filed in the divorce with that couple allege that MB knows where the kids are. It also alleges that MB said that "sometimes children are full of light and then they just go dark."

Can you guys help me out? Sometimes I miss the obvious.

I'm having trouble understanding how BB/MB divorce documents filed by BB in July (w/uncontested divorce being finalized in Oct) could possibly contain allegations that Melani knows where the children are, when (as far as I know) the children were not yet missing.

 

[divineappt]

An option could be her sister, don’t have her photo for height. Had to close dozens of tabs on my iPad, it was getting really sluggish! Just speculation.

 

[NvrEndgStry]

Why was Lori driving around in the rental car with the kids electronics & documents? That’s incredibly puzzling. Why not just leave them at her rental? Particularly the documents is strange. I get she was likely using Tylee’s cell to monitor and cover as well as Tylee’s bank card to conceal her transactions- but, why the need to have their birth certs carried around?

 

[Rush4087]

Maybe this was the new babysitter. Maybe this is LE hinting that they have lots of electronic evidence? The person who you are eluding to lives in Kansas I think. It may be her. Could be a neighbor. It's hard to tell.

Was the date 9/19?

 

[canyonoflight]

If he shot her first would the bullet dissolve? JMO

I've never been to Yellowstone (want to tho) so is there any security at the gates? I'm just thinking they'd want to make sure no guns were brought in to protect wildlife. I'm guessing there's not b/c there are so many access points?

 

[Hippononymous]

It might be cool to see them bubbling, but if you were to fall in, you will dissolve to nothing.

Absolutely, and people have. I was only saying that it's really crowded at Yellowstone! It would be a risky way to kill someone. MOO

 

[CSIDreamer]

I don't think it says they saw anyone leaving the park, period. It says they saw all 4 entering the park and found a picture of Tylee that Lori (or her device) took that was in the park. That picture in the park is the last they know where and when Tylee was for sure. They know the others left the park because they've all been seen or recorded since, JJ (the doorbell video a few days later as well as at school until the 23rd, Lori all over including court yesterday, and Alex several places until his death a couple months later). But at least as far as they are saying they don't know that Tylee didn't leave Yellowstone or when and what route any of them left it.

They also backed up that cloud pic of Tylee with one from the national park service. (Catching up again). Jmo

 

[Hippononymous]

I've never been to Yellowstone (want to tho) so is there any security at the gates? I'm just thinking they'd want to make sure no guns were brought in to protect wildlife. I'm guessing there's not b/c there are so many access points?

You have to pay before you go in, but they don't ask what you do or do not have in your car, as far as I can remember.

 

[fred&edna]

If Chad and Lori have known each other since 2018... Is it really possible he did not know she had children from that date to November 2019, which is more than a year? Chad knew J Mow and Melanie G and they both knew she had children. No one told him? He was too infatuated with Lori to question any of this?? No way! Imo. Could he possibly be charged with aiding and abetting in the abandonment of her children... Even though the children were not biologically nor legally his own??

 

[kye0001]

Someone inquired earlier about what has drawn people to this case. This is my first post to the forum, although I have been lurking (okay, let's be honest, obsessing) for the past few weeks. Following these threads has been a fascinating and sometimes heartbreaking exercise, and I have learned so much from all of you.

I have an LDS background, and am familiar with many of the geographical locations associated with this case. My biggest draw to the story is the fact that I witnessed a very close family member become quickly and heavily involved in the extreme "prepper" movement -- believing in visions and end of times prophecies, tens of thousands of dollars spent on supplies, a detailed plan to head to the hills when the "calling out" occurred. These actions caused great concern to nearly everyone around them. Efforts to reason with this person generally failed. It was scary. Gratefully, over time, and after certain prophecies didn't come to fulfillment (JR the author's earthquake prediction, for example), the level of intensity/involvement for my family member lessened. They have not been closely associated with Chad & Lori's subgroup, and claim to have pulled back from being as active in AVOW and the other group for the past two years. But at the height of their involvement, it was alarming and frankly very frightening to see how quickly they became immersed in that radical mindset.

Because of that experience and what I observed, I initially held out hope that Tylee and JJ had been hidden with like-minded folks. As time has gone on, watching everything that has unfolded and with no sign of the kids, that hope has diminished. I broke down and cried yesterday after seeing Lori in court. It's finally sinking into my heart that the children are probably gone.
(my opinion only)

Thank you to those in this forum who have provided such valuable information, particularly the verified insiders. Also, huge shout-out to @Gardener1850 for the incredible job on the timeline.

Welcome aboard! I’m sorry your family member went through that.