Identified! ID - Dubois, WhtMale Skeletal UP13310, Buffalo Cave, Aug 1979 - 1870-1916 Joseph Henry Loveless

[musicaljoke]

View attachment 223303

From the shirt picture, we can see:

• a two-hole, tire shaped, china prosser button (1840-1920ish)
• rounded cuff
• 100% linen fabric (tough stuff)
• woven, dyed blue weft threads (not printed)
• heavy thread to stabilize the button hole
• cuff either had two cuff buttons and is buttoned incorrectly, or the button was resewn in the wrong spot, so possibly not the original button.

It looks like a good quality, fairly heavy, working man's shirt. The button was probably made in the US. Tariffs during those years made imported buttons expensive, so they'd be used on finer shirts. I'm pretty sure that a forensic scientist who could look at the entire shirt would be able to date it.

 

[PayrollNerd]

So, who’s going to play him in the movie? Ha! What a story. That book that’s already out there needs to have a Version 2!

 

[crazyrabbitlady]

The Match 2, 1916 incident, does it say what he was arrested for? Was that his initial arrest for the Smith murder or had he been in jail since June?

Here are the (updated) dates of his crimes and arrests:

March 20, 1914 - Arrested for Bootlegging in Burley, ID

December 11, 1914 - Arrested for Bootlegging in Burley, ID

June 6-7, 1915 - Possibly murders J.S. Smith in Pocatello, ID

March 2, 1916 - Stops a train and saws the bars on the train to avoid going to jail

May 5, 1916 - Allegedly murders his wife with an ax

May 7, 1916 - Arrested for Agnes’s murder

May 18, 1916 - Escapes the St. Anthony Jail by using a saw in his boot

 

[carbuff]

Me too , I take those with a grain of salt though they seem to often be wrong .

Yeah, we've had other cases where the PMI was off by many years, even decades, but none as off as this.

I can't believe how well preserved that clothing is. Is there something in the soil of that cave that acts as preservative?

 

[crazyrabbitlady]

The few caves I have been in have a very loose dry dirt, almost like sand. My guess would be that when the body was buried it was almost mummified. Per definition of mummification "skin and organs have been preserved by either intentional or accidental exposure to chemicals, extreme cold, very low humidity, or lack of air, so that the recovered body does not decay further if kept in cool and dry conditions.". IMO being buried in the cave could easily simulate those conditions.

 

[musicaljoke]

Yeah, we've had other cases where the PMI was off by many years, even decades, but none as off as this.

I can't believe how well preserved that clothing is. Is there something in the soil of that cave that acts as preservative?

Linen is the world's strongest natural fibre. It lasts for a very long time. It actually gains strength when it's damp, or wet. It also has some natural ability to prevent bacterial growth. That's why we use linen tea towels.

If that shirt had been cotton, then chances are there would be little left to see.

The fibre content of the shirt is my assumption only. I haven't actually seen the fabric, but if it's something other than linen, I'll eat my computer screen.

 

[carbuff]

Good thought about the linen. It certainly looks sturdy.

 

[musicaljoke]

Good thought about the linen. It certainly looks sturdy.

O.T. - the Shroud of Turin is Linen.

 

[jaejae]

Here is another video report about this case:

 

[transdoetaskforce]

Sharing this here ... It was a really exciting case, and it continues to be so.

 

[vermontaigne]

You know, he may not have escaped the jail. He may have been dealt with there, deposited in the cave, and then claimed to have escaped, it being plausible because he had done so before.

 

[TmmEye]

Bumping.

 

[TmmEye]

So I have some info here you guys might like-

Joseph’s father killed a woman back in 1874 and died back in 1882/1883. Joseph was also a horse thief from Wyoming to Oklahoma between April 1901 and August 1905 and was in jail in that region at least once.

 

[TmmEye]

I also want to say this- don’t just guess he died May 1916. I calculated that he died between May 18, 1916 and December 2, 1921. Now I will search the census to confirm if he died before 1920 or not.

 

[TmmEye]

I also want to say this- don’t just guess he died May 1916. I calculated that he died between May 18, 1916 and December 2, 1921. Now I will search the census to confirm if he died before 1920 or not.

Did some searching. Joseph, nor his aliases, appeared in the 1920 census. My best guess is that Joseph died before 1920..

 

[PayrollNerd]

So I have some info here you guys might like-

Joseph’s father killed a woman back in 1874 and died back in 1882/1883. Joseph was also a horse thief from Wyoming to Oklahoma between April 1901 and August 1905 and was in jail in that region at least once.

Is there a newspaper clipping or other source? This case is such a fascinating look back in time.

 

[TmmEye]

Is there a newspaper clipping or other source? This case is such a fascinating look back in time.

Here are the sources I can list for the first two parts. The horse thief info came from a comment on a video on YT. A guy or girl said “our family knows all about loveless. My great great uncle served time with him in jail and he was a horse thief from Wyoming down to Oklahoma.”

 

[CastlesBurning]

DNA detectives are using new tools to solve decades-old cold cases

 

[MaryG12]

Fascinating case, I feel like I am watching a silent film western as this type of story would not at all be an unusual one for the silver screen back in the early to mid-1920's.

So I wonder if one of his descendents has an actual photo of him? That reconstruction is incredible given how old this case is.

 

[evilwise]

Fascinating case, I feel like I am watching a silent film western as this type of story would not at all be an unusual one for the silver screen back in the early to mid-1920's.

So I wonder if one of his descendents has an actual photo of him? That reconstruction is incredible given how old this case is.

I believe the reconstruction is based on the wanted poster (thin lips, blue eyes, nearly invisible eyebrows), the clothing he escaped (and was found) wearing, DNA phenotyping and living relatives' actual appearances. We're getting to a level of technology when faces can be pretty accurately reconstructed. Has his skull even been found? I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up as decoration somewhere and is in someone's collection of Western Americana.