Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #122

[cujenn81]

So I am from a state that is one of the most neutral in accents and any accent really jumps out at me. It's definitely a "country" midwest accent IMO. That might sound snooty, but I hear this accent all day. I now live near Indiana and also spend a lot of time in northern Michigan...I didn't think Michigan hearing him, to me he has more of a southern sound...not a deep "y'all" type southern, but rural Indiana, Kentucky. He sounds exactly like I would expect someone from a small town in Indiana to sound like. The only thing that doesn't match with me is the new sketch and his voice. I hear thick jowls, years of smoking, age.

ITA - I hear the same things

 

[IceIce9]

There's a definite difference between central Indiana and Kentucky. I don't hear Kentucky at all. If he had a Kentucky accent, guys would be pronounced more like gaahs, IMO. I don't think I can distinguish northern/central Indiana from northern/ central Ohio and surrounding areas, but if you get into southern Ohio and Indiana, there's a noticeable southern drawl.

Northwest Indiana (known as Da Region) has more of a Chicago accent.

“Da Region” is considered Chicago metro area and is Jasper, Lake, Porter, LaPorte, and Newton counties.

 

[Charlot123]

There's a definite difference between central Indiana and Kentucky. I don't hear Kentucky at all. If he had a Kentucky accent, guys would be pronounced more like gaahs, IMO. I don't think I can distinguish northern/central Indiana from northern/ central Ohio and surrounding areas, but if you get into southern Ohio and Indiana, there's a noticeable southern drawl.

Could it be Cleveland? There was an attempt to hijack a female Uber driver, a long-haul trip from Nashville to Cleveland, then they took a turn to Dayton instead. The poor woman jumped out of the car. The police is looking for it now. The woman took his photo.

 

[Shancydrew]

Some of my thoughts. I think BG came to the trails that day prepared to kill if the opportunity arose, a predatory lurker. I would say familiarity with the trails is a given. I do not think a possible earlier encounter that did not end well in no way should be interpreted as the girls contributing in any way to their deaths. I have myself been in the presence of people whose behavior is so far out of the normal range that it brought a gut reaction to me. Some people just emit bad vibes. This could have happened thus Libby videoing him. I think he had them targeted by the time they reached the bridge. Whether he had targeted them before the impromptu bridge trip I am beginning to change my thoughts. I now think there is a possible connection between the phone reset and the murder. I just think he had to be physically near them when Libby took Abby's picture on the bridge. I've even wondered if he could have somehow been on the bridge's understructure. It just seems too short a timespan for Libby's picture which does not show him and then his approach of the girls at the end of the bridge.

I have wondered the same about the understructure of the bridge. In photos and videos it looks like another level.

 

[Charlot123]

If it's the article I'm thinking of she mentions being asked to teach her methods to different LE including the FBI. Then there was the RadarOnline article in Jan 2019 where Sheriff Leazenby was quoted...

“We sent more evidence to the FBI at Quantico just before Christmas,” Sheriff Leazenby told Radar in an exclusive interview and said they were doing “DNA testing research,” with regards to the case."

It was discussed that it might be those same methods being done that CeCe Moore used in the Tinsley case.

Yes.

With the exception of CeCe Moore in April Tinsley’s case providing the results.

 

[Falling Down]

I don't believe they did not know how close they were to Abbey's house. These girls were 13 and 14 and had to know this IMO. Abby was not supposed to be on the bridge yet she was on there and photographed by Libby.

A family member was quoted saying such.

People in that town were interviewed right after the murders, and stated they had no idea where the bridge was located, and they didn't know how to get there.

The girls were dropped off right off of C.R. 300, I can understand why they wouldn't be aware C.R. 625 ends up as a driveway way on the other side of the bridge, they'd never been all the way down 625 where it becomes private property.

JMO

 

[flashy09]

There's a definite difference between central Indiana and Kentucky. I don't hear Kentucky at all. If he had a Kentucky accent, guys would be pronounced more like gaahs, IMO. I don't think I can distinguish northern/central Indiana from northern/ central Ohio and surrounding areas, but if you get into southern Ohio and Indiana, there's a noticeable southern drawl.

I honestly hear BG accent all the time in KY. "Gaahs" is more Virginia drawl. KY really does have a twang. But I don't think he is from Ky - it makes much more sense he is from Indiana.

 

[HOPE770145]

truck driver, that drives hogs or pigs to slaughterhouse, lives in Delphi, may have their own or be part of a truck driving business in Delphi, the killings from what I read were brutal and I believe the POI wanted to send a message that he hated the community, so look for a misfit a loner, in and out of marriage or relationship, may have a child that goes to the same school as the girls at the time, may have even seen the girls at sports events at the school etc...IMHO

 

[stattlich1]

I was active in this thread for a period, quite some time ago. I come around to read from time to time, otherwise don't post often.

A couple thoughts I had months ago, and still do. These are all my opinion.

Mistakes were surely made in the early hours, and the ensuing night, in terms of the scene, which I believe was badly contaminated by the number of searchers traipsing about.

The fact that there is a video of a guy on the bridge, and NOBODY seems to know who it is, remains for me, quite a disturbing thought. I think the video is clear enough, coupled with the voice recordings, that an ID could be made by professionals in the field IF this person on the bridge was known within the local community. I also believe BG IS known by LE investigating the case, and also known within the local community.

I think there were two people involved in the murders. I believe the girls were directed and corralled by perp 1, BG, and I believe a second perp was lying in wait. I think LE has DNA from both, but can not prove which perp did the killing. I think LE has a strong belief which of the two actually murdered these girls, but simply does not have the evidence to nail him. It is the lack of definitive evidence to nail the one perp, the actual killer, that is causing the delay in the case.

MOO

 

[MistyWaters]

truck driver, that drives hogs or pigs to slaughterhouse, lives in Delphi, may have their own or be part of a truck driving business in Delphi, the killings from what I read were brutal and I believe the POI wanted to send a message that he hated the community, so look for a misfit a loner, in and out of marriage or relationship, may have a child that goes to the same school as the girls at the time, may have even seen the girls at sports events at the school etc...IMHO

A horrendous murder spree occurred in Nova Scotia, Canada just over 3 weeks ago, 22 people lost their lives. The cold-blooded perpetrator was a 51 year-old businessman who owned a company that made dentures.

Based on that I’ve concluded it’s forever more impossible for me to predict the occupation of any murderer.

 

[MistyWaters]

I was active in this thread for a period, quite some time ago. I come around to read from time to time, otherwise don't post often.

A couple thoughts I had months ago, and still do. These are all my opinion.

Mistakes were surely made in the early hours, and the ensuing night, in terms of the scene, which I believe was badly contaminated by the number of searchers traipsing about.

The fact that there is a video of a guy on the bridge, and NOBODY seems to know who it is, remains for me, quite a disturbing thought. I think the video is clear enough, coupled with the voice recordings, that an ID could be made by professionals in the field IF this person on the bridge was known within the local community. I also believe BG IS known by LE investigating the case, and also known within the local community.

I think there were two people involved in the murders. I believe the girls were directed and corralled by perp 1, BG, and I believe a second perp was lying in wait. I think LE has DNA from both, but can not prove which perp did the killing. I think LE has a strong belief which of the two actually murdered these girls, but simply does not have the evidence to nail him. It is the lack of definitive evidence to nail the one perp, the actual killer, that is causing the delay in the case.

MOO

If two people were involved, regardless of which one caused the actual deaths, would that constitute Felony Murder, especially because both Abby and Libby were minors? According to wiki, the State of a Indiana is governed by such a law.

“The rule of felony murder is a legal doctrine in some common law jurisdictions that broadens the crime of murder: when an offender kills (regardless of intent to kill) in the commission of a dangerous or enumerated crime (called a felony in some jurisdictions), the offender, and also the offender's accomplices or co-conspirators, may be found guilty of murder...”
Felony murder rule - Wikipedia

 

[stattlich1]

If two people were involved, regardless of which one caused the actual deaths, would that constitute Felony Murder, especially because both Abby and Libby were minors? According to wiki, the State of a Indiana is governed by such a law.

“The rule of felony murder is a legal doctrine in some common law jurisdictions that broadens the crime of murder: when an offender kills (regardless of intent to kill) in the commission of a dangerous or enumerated crime (called a felony in some jurisdictions), the offender, and also the offender's accomplices or co-conspirators, may be found guilty of murder...”
Felony murder rule - Wikipedia

Very good post. What if the other perp were a minor?

MOO, it is my belief LE knows who killed these two girls, and want to nail him.

 

[HOPE770145]

A horrendous murder spree occurred in Nova Scotia, Canada just over 3 weeks ago, 22 people lost their lives. The cold-blooded perpetrator was a 51 year-old businessman who owned a company that made dentures.

Based on that I’ve concluded it’s forever more impossible for me to predict the occupation of any murderer.

and that Horrendous murder spree was done by a man who was a domestic abuser, so there were red flags beforehand and a lot of the times there are

 

[HOPE770145]

I was active in this thread for a period, quite some time ago. I come around to read from time to time, otherwise don't post often.

A couple thoughts I had months ago, and still do. These are all my opinion.

Mistakes were surely made in the early hours, and the ensuing night, in terms of the scene, which I believe was badly contaminated by the number of searchers traipsing about.

The fact that there is a video of a guy on the bridge, and NOBODY seems to know who it is, remains for me, quite a disturbing thought. I think the video is clear enough, coupled with the voice recordings, that an ID could be made by professionals in the field IF this person on the bridge was known within the local community. I also believe BG IS known by LE investigating the case, and also known within the local community.

I think there were two people involved in the murders. I believe the girls were directed and corralled by perp 1, BG, and I believe a second perp was lying in wait. I think LE has DNA from both, but can not prove which perp did the killing. I think LE has a strong belief which of the two actually murdered these girls, but simply does not have the evidence to nail him. It is the lack of definitive evidence to nail the one perp, the actual killer, that is causing the delay in the case.

MOO

were there any posts or indications from witnesses of this person leaving that he had scratches on his face or was harmed in any way? wondering how he was able to subdue 2 girls unless he knew them to begin with, other than the fact you think there were 2 POI not just 1

 

[Charlot123]

.​

I was active in this thread for a period, quite some time ago. I come around to read from time to time, otherwise don't post often.

A couple thoughts I had months ago, and still do. These are all my opinion.

Mistakes were surely made in the early hours, and the ensuing night, in terms of the scene, which I believe was badly contaminated by the number of searchers traipsing about.

The fact that there is a video of a guy on the bridge, and NOBODY seems to know who it is, remains for me, quite a disturbing thought. I think the video is clear enough, coupled with the voice recordings, that an ID could be made by professionals in the field IF this person on the bridge was known within the local community. I also believe BG IS known by LE investigating the case, and also known within the local community.

I think there were two people involved in the murders. I believe the girls were directed and corralled by perp 1, BG, and I believe a second perp was lying in wait. I think LE has DNA from both, but can not prove which perp did the killing. I think LE has a strong belief which of the two actually murdered these girls, but simply does not have the evidence to nail him. It is the lack of definitive evidence to nail the one perp, the actual killer, that is causing the delay in the case.

MOO

Who, of what level, could have, or need, that much protection? He, or they, are child killers. And who knows how many more people they killed, or will kill? Who can remain their friends, who could open the doors of their houses to these people, who “would give them light”? Why can’t the second perp be accused of merely participating? If it is a group killing, both will end with long prison terms.

I am not vindictive or mean. I personally do not demand “an eye for an eye”, or capital punishment, or mistreatment in prison. They must be named. To me it would be enough if the ashamed murderer commits suicide. I honestly think he should spare the county of spending any money on him. But I believe that the audio has more damning information, and maybe even the motive. Paul Holes said the public should listen to it? Then we should.

I was thinking, maybe there is something about the girls on that audio that their families don’t want the world to know? But my personal feeling is, we shall all understand, and support, because we know the end to the story.

Most of us raise, or raised, kids. We know how they are. Kids make mistakes, kids are impulsive, kids are not perfect. Our role is to protect them, teach them, sometimes learn from own mistakes, but never to kill them.

Two young girls, who will never grow, go to college, become independent, make careers, date, know what motherhood is. Ground their children, even. All their future ended there, on that muddy bank of the creek.

You say, someone knows who this guy is? Who can risk own reputation that much by protecting this useless, sadistic , now?

And Ives says he can be caught if he kills again? How many more Abbys or Libbys need to die for the guy to end in prison?

 

[MistyWaters]

Very good post. What if the other perp were a minor?

MOO, it is my belief LE knows who killed these two girls, and want to nail him.

If I’m reading this right, a Juvenile in Indiana who is charged with murder which was committed at age 16 will be tried in Adult Court. A Juvenile who is charged with a murder which was committed at age 10 can be tried in Adult Court, "unless it would be in the best interests of the child and of the safety and welfare of the community" to be tried in Juvenile Court. Which Court is involved is dependent on the youth’s age at the time the crime was committed, not the age of the accused when charges were laid or the time of the hearing, so it wouldn’t seem there’d be any advantage in delay.

Indiana's Transfer Laws

But I know what you’re saying and I agree, indeed there’s a possibility of duo involvement such as this.

 

[soylattesandsleuthing]

.​

Who, of what level, could have, or need, that much protection? He, or they, are child killers. And who knows how many more people they killed, or will kill? Who can remain their friends, who could open the doors of their houses to these people, who “would give them light”? Why can’t the second perp be accused of merely participating? If it is a group killing, both will end with long prison terms.

I am not vindictive or mean. I personally do not demand “an eye for an eye”, or capital punishment, or mistreatment in prison. They must be named. To me it would be enough if the ashamed murderer commits suicide. I honestly think he should spare the county of spending any money on him. But I believe that the audio has more damning information, and maybe even the motive. Paul Holes said the public should listen to it? Then we should.

I was thinking, maybe there is something about the girls on that audio that their families don’t want the world to know? But my personal feeling is, we shall all understand, and support, because we know the end to the story.

Most of us raise, or raised, kids. We know how they are. Kids make mistakes, kids are impulsive, kids are not perfect. Our role is to protect them, teach them, sometimes learn from own mistakes, but never to kill them.

Two young girls, who will never grow, go to college, become independent, make careers, date, know what motherhood is. Ground their children, even. All their future ended there, on that muddy bank of the creek.

You say, someone knows who this guy is? Who can risk own reputation that much by protecting this useless, sadistic ***, now?

And Ives says he can be caught if he kills again? How many more Abbys or Libbys need to die for the guy to end in prison?

Do you know if Paul Holes listened to the rest of the audio? I wonder how involved he is with this case.

I used to think there were two perps, but now I’m not so sure. If there were two, wouldn’t the second one be heard on the audio? I would think if a second person was heard, LE would let the public know, but then again they seem to keep so much close to the vest, maybe they wouldn’t.

 

[MistyWaters]

and that Horrendous murder spree was done by a man who was a domestic abuser, so there were red flags beforehand and a lot of the times there are

This is the problem LE face. There can be all kinds of red flags but actual evidence is still required to prove beyond reasonable doubt the accused was responsible for murdering two teens....aside from the fact he may indeed be a domestic abuser, possesses a whole waft of guns and be known as a hot-head by some. There are a lot of them out there for sure but that’s not enough to either predict or convict of murder. If it were a lot of calm, cool headed, devious murderers would be walking free because of wrongful convictions.

 

[Charlot123]

Do you know if Paul Holes listened to the rest of the audio? I wonder how involved he is with this case.

I used to think there were two perps, but now I’m not so sure. If there were two, wouldn’t the second one be heard on the audio? I would think if a second person was heard, LE would let the public know, but then again they seem to keep so much close to the vest, maybe they wouldn’t.

I think he was “consulted”. I wonder if it was a real consultation, though, or merely “going through the motions” because he was so popular, and everyone was saying, “Paul Holes should handle this case”. He said something vague re: “the long road ahead” (about DNA); asked what he’d do differently, said he’d have the public listen to the tape.

I do not know what’s on the audio. My thinking is, likely, two perps, because if the girls were killed where found, the time was limited to leave the scene of crime pristine or strange or whatever. If they were not killed where found, then you probably need two to transport them to the creek. Theoretically, the job for two would be easier, but as I have said to myself, the case probably would blunt the Occam’s razor, so, who knows? I feel that the perps have major mental issues, regardless of the motive, but they need to be named.

 

[HOPE770145]

.​

Who, of what level, could have, or need, that much protection? He, or they, are child killers. And who knows how many more people they killed, or will kill? Who can remain their friends, who could open the doors of their houses to these people, who “would give them light”? Why can’t the second perp be accused of merely participating? If it is a group killing, both will end with long prison terms.

I am not vindictive or mean. I personally do not demand “an eye for an eye”, or capital punishment, or mistreatment in prison. They must be named. To me it would be enough if the ashamed murderer commits suicide. I honestly think he should spare the county of spending any money on him. But I believe that the audio has more damning information, and maybe even the motive. Paul Holes said the public should listen to it? Then we should.

I was thinking, maybe there is something about the girls on that audio that their families don’t want the world to know? But my personal feeling is, we shall all understand, and support, because we know the end to the story.

Most of us raise, or raised, kids. We know how they are. Kids make mistakes, kids are impulsive, kids are not perfect. Our role is to protect them, teach them, sometimes learn from own mistakes, but never to kill them.

Two young girls, who will never grow, go to college, become independent, make careers, date, know what motherhood is. Ground their children, even. All their future ended there, on that muddy bank of the creek.

You say, someone knows who this guy is? Who can risk own reputation that much by protecting this useless, sadistic ***, now?

And Ives says he can be caught if he kills again? How many more Abbys or Libbys need to die for the guy to end in prison?

he wont commit suicide he is a psychopath, unless he does it with a lot of people around to take with him, theyre void of feeling to the degree many of us are, I just feel like there is an old boys club mentality in that town with the way things are going, needs to stop and they need to get on getting on and finish it already