Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #45

[Forever Young]

Be careful with going out in a limb we know what CD does with them.

Ha!

 

[gumchew]

I only took that from the "Prepper Pride" comment from MG. My point is more about how CD & LVD are exempt from sleeping in tents and presumably injury to self or soul but the rest of the 144K are all subject to the horrors of the end of times.

Hm. One might almost get the impression that they don't think things through very carefully (see also: 60 burner phones, taking regular phones to burial site, burial site in back yard, possible unfamiliarity with Hawaii's legal status)

 

[155etta]

I find this whole idea of "taking walks around a track to keep your affair secret" bizarre. Who DOES that? Was there something special about the BYU track? If BYU was an it place, why not a tête à tête in the library? The student union?
Here are 100 walks/hikes within 100 miles of Rexburg: 100 Hikes within 100 Miles of Rexburg - Explore Rexburg
There's a nature park in town....
Or....genius thought... they could have spent their valuable time scouting locations for their heavenly tents for the 144k camping couples minus LVD, CD, and pals, since they weren't into camping, tents, or all that icky stuff. Come to think of it, maybe they were scouting the arena...

I think he used it as an excuse. On the day he helped bury Tylee, he texted Tammy and told her that he was going to BYUI to write for awhile. MOO.

 

[tripleC]

I know we're way past this convo, but for the person/persons wondering if MG and DW stayed the night at LVs the weekend JJ was last seen, the answer is yes. #24 on the prob cause affadvit

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR22-20-755/Affidavit of Probable Cause.pdf

 

[renarde]

I know we're way past this convo, but for the person/persons wondering if MG and DW stayed the night at LVs the weekend JJ was last seen, the answer is yes. #24 on the prob cause affadvit

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR22-20-755/Affidavit of Probable Cause.pdf

"Soon after she arrived Lori Vallow informed Gibb that JJ had become a “zombie” and pointed out behaviors such as sitting still and watching tv, claiming JJ said he loved Satan, and an increased vocabulary as evidence that JJ was now a zombie. Gibb observed JJ’s behavior and felt it to be the same as she had always observed it."

He sat still to watch TV? AND ... his vocabulary increased?

That must've been the last straw for Lori.

 

[JRWoodwardMSW]

Well the strategy of keeping quiet and not answering any questions about JJ & Tylee worked for a short while for them. Time is no longer on CD & LVD's side as all of the data, the forensics, the links in each puzzle are coming together now with 65 + cell phones data, GPS (on everyone of those phones I would imagine) and bank purchases, etc. come to light.
Seriously any bets on when they begin to "see the light" that they will never walk free in society again?
Option 1) The gravity of the situation hit when the children's remains were uncovered.
Option 2) The "holy crap" moment hit when the charges were read against CD in court.
Option 3) July 23, 2020
Option 4) Upon conclusion of trial(s)
Option 5) . . . .

"I'll take #5, Alex. What is "never"?"

 

[Leney]

I'm sorry for challenging your assertion, but having read this affidavit about 30 times now, I have never seen any form of the word dismember or even any of its synonyms in the affidavit. Would you mind giving me a paragraph # as reference?

I believe that Tylee's aunt is an allowed source and has one of the most comprehensive sourced blogs/timelines.

I don't need to repeat the words used but you will find the particular tweet regarding the condition of her remains at this link dated June 26, 2020.
She states the remains were dismembered along with other information.

https://twitter.com/AnnieCushing/with_replies

The comprehensive timeline at this link.

Timeline of Events Around the Disappearance of Tylee Ryan and JJ Vallow - Annielytics.com

 

[Kudzu]

I find this whole idea of "taking walks around a track to keep your affair secret" bizarre. Who DOES that? Was there something special about the BYU track? If BYU was an it place, why not a tête à tête in the library? The student union?
Here are 100 walks/hikes within 100 miles of Rexburg: 100 Hikes within 100 Miles of Rexburg - Explore Rexburg
There's a nature park in town....
Or....genius thought... they could have spent their valuable time scouting locations for their heavenly tents for the 144k camping couples minus LVD, CD, and pals, since they weren't into camping, tents, or all that icky stuff. Come to think of it, maybe they were scouting the arena...

I think walks around the track were a prelude to smoothies. MOO

 

[indicolite22]

I believe that Tylee's aunt is an allowed source and has one of the most comprehensive sourced blogs/timelines.

I don't need to repeat the words used but you will find the particular tweet regarding the condition of her remains at this link dated June 26, 2020.
She states the remains were dismembered along with other information.

https://twitter.com/AnnieCushing/with_replies

The comprehensive timeline at this link.

Timeline of Events Around the Disappearance of Tylee Ryan and JJ Vallow - Annielytics.com

I don't believe Annie was told about the dismemberment by an inside source but learned it from the media like the rest of us. IMO it's too soon to know if any dismemberment took place before the body was burned, despite the word order in the EIN article from June 19 (BBM):

Court documents released Friday evening detail the horrific manner in which Joshua “JJ” Vallow and Tylee Ryan were found in Chad Daybell’s backyard. JJ was wrapped in plastic and bound by duct tape while Tylee was dismembered and burned.

Documents detail horrific manner JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan were found in Chad Daybell's yard | East Idaho News

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I believe that Tylee's aunt is an allowed source and has one of the most comprehensive sourced blogs/timelines.

I don't need to repeat the words used but you will find the particular tweet regarding the condition of her remains at this link dated June 26, 2020.
She states the remains were dismembered along with other information.

https://twitter.com/AnnieCushing/with_replies

The comprehensive timeline at this link.

Timeline of Events Around the Disappearance of Tylee Ryan and JJ Vallow - Annielytics.com

Yes, June 26th. It appears she heard this from Nate, as we all have. The only source of the info at this time MOO. Nate did reply publicly to correct himself before (that she was not dismembered before she died) after many people did a pm to his FB account, perhaps he can clarify this also if that was done on this issue? I believe that he is inferring ONLY from court documents differently that many here are.

Court documents released Friday evening detail the horrific manner in which Joshua “JJ” Vallow and Tylee Ryan were found in Chad Daybell’s backyard. JJ was wrapped in plastic and bound by duct tape while Tylee was dismembered and burned..

 

[FLmom777]

I'm sorry for challenging your assertion, but having read this affidavit about 30 times now, I have never seen any form of the word dismember or even any of its synonyms in the affidavit. Would you mind giving me a paragraph # as reference?

38 and 39 speak of finding bones and then finding more bones. Some were charred. I guess the wording leaves me to assume they were separated.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I remember that the same poster didn't paint Charles in a good light either. Maybe not so reliable/welcome witness?

But clearly we know that Charles had many flaw with money, partners, money management etc. But we still feel the goodness in him.
I feel this way about both Joe and Charles... because I feel the source of a great deal of their angst came from our one and only.

I wonder if Annie and Kay ever discussed their brothers in the way we are.

 

[April_Dawn99]

The big question, for me, is why do people follow someone into 'co-creating' a cult. It's not so much all the ways Jim Jones thought he was special, but how and why did all these other people believe he was special. So much and so special that they were willing to do anything he told them to do. Why didn't they refuse to drink the kool-aid, and gang up on him and his handful of enforcers, and fight for their lives and the lives of their friends and children, even if it meant dying in the process - since they were clearly going to die anyway?'

IMO that requires looking at the psychology/character traits/circumstances of the followers, and their relationship to the leader.

So, for eg, if Hitler had been born in England or the US, regardless of his narcissistic traits, IMO neither nation would have voted him in as their leader. They didn't need or want Hitler or his message or the Nazi party because they'd won WWI, they already had an empire, they were economically prosperous, they had a functioning democratic system. Whereas, the Germans had none of those things, but they wanted them badly, and they created a shared delusion with Hitler about how he, with their support, would deliver a glorious future for Germany, etc etc.

Also, most cult leaders have a powerful ability to speak to and stir up groups or crowds. That means displaying passion, confidence, repetition, and so forth. They understand how to stage and publish propaganda, which exists for the sole purpose of getting people worked up and supporting your cause in a dire 'us vs them' way. They have innate skills in brain washing techniques, and manipulating people in groups to give up their own money and power and walk willingly into the prison of the cult, and never to leave, even though the door is unlocked.

I agree with that. Self-interest above all other motivations. Anything that even ran a close second would have to serve that first priority. The more I talk this out with all of you, the more it feels like we're putting a lot more thought into the whole 'cult' thing than they were. I really can't wait to hear what they (through their defense teams or otherwise) have to say for themselves. And the treasure trove of communications that I am almost certain that LE must have now.

IMO, Lori wasn't thinking about the logistical problems of building, managing, communicating, leading and ministering to a group of 144,000 people. Per MG, she seemed to be focused on really important things, like having sex with CD three times a day. eyeroll

MOO
People follow because they do have the underlying desires/beliefs that are met by following the cult leader, which they may not (and I believe usually do not) really realize themselves.
There are underlying desires for those who lost/don't have real sense in life to BE TOLD what their sense in life is; they want to BE LED; those who feel alone want to feel a part of the group, even better if there is a chance to get a place in hierarchy above others.
Why do all these people in PAP get together with all their crazy visions? Because that's the place where they will be heard; where they can play prophets and visionaries; raising their self esteem, making them believe their own fantasies, because oh how sweet it is when your usual dull life where you are *just* a regular husband or a regular wife is transformed into something larger, with special meaning and you are a part of that.
All this reinforced multiple times by group dynamics, other members who are so into this it seems. There were numerous experiments on how easy it is to make a person believe, for example, that the white ball is in fact black, if everyone around you says it is black.
Add here those underlying desires. And boom - crazy gang is born; the brains are rewired to accept new priorities, and they do start to believe in what is made up JMO

ETA: IMO it is indeed a self interest. Even religious people who believe they are completely altruistic in spreading word of God, are acting in their own interests, because underlying desire is to feel more righteous, knowing, good, saved etc. JMO MOO
ETA2: So the bottomline of what I wanted to say is that it is both cult and self interest, because the two are interconnected JMO

 

[indicolite22]

Do we know for sure that Alex lived in Lori's appartment no 175 for a week before moving into his own unit no 170? The info on the timeline apparently came from interviewing Lori's neighbor. Is there renting history to corroborate that claim? If accurate, Alex would have moved shortly before Tylee was last seen. Did Tylee even have her own space with Alex staying at Lori's?

According to the same neighbor, a week after coming to Rexburg JJ told the neigbor's kid that he and his sister were going to visit grandma. Again, this was right before Tylee's disappearance. It would indicate premeditation - Lori had a plan to disappear both children even though JJ was declared a zombie only on the 18th (that appears to have been a lie to MG). On the other hand, if JJ expected Tylee to go with him, how did he react to her absence? Was she suddendly going away for school? It's strange that he never mentioned it to the neighbor.

Mom of missing Rexburg children fled before FBI raid, neighbor says - Local News 8

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Considering that there are multiple testimonies about her being a good mother, my theory is that she changed. People change.

and i still maintain she was a bad seed..causing trouble for years!

 

[spammie]

Thank you for the links Leney. It helps me to figure out who is who and who did what to who.

 

[Boxer]

"Soon after she arrived Lori Vallow informed Gibb that JJ had become a “zombie” and pointed out behaviors such as sitting still and watching tv, claiming JJ said he loved Satan, and an increased vocabulary as evidence that JJ was now a zombie. Gibb observed JJ’s behavior and felt it to be the same as she had always observed it."

He sat still to watch TV? AND ... his vocabulary increased?

That must've been the last straw for Lori.

This increased vocabulary might be:
"Where is Tylee?"

 

[indicolite22]

If Alex quit his job in mid-August, IMO he might have known he was about to move to another state. How long did he hold that job? Alex's role as an enforcer was crucial for Lori and Chad. They had him follow Lori to Rexburg so he could help them execute their evil plan. And then what? I'd like to know who and when called Alex a zombie.

Lori told MG that her initial plan was for Chad to move to Arizona to be with her (presumably after Tammy's death). Disappearing her children without it being noticed would have been much more difficult there. IMO they planned the children's demise while still in Arizona. Cutting off JJ's contact with Kay and getting rid of the dog were among the first steps.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Part of what you quoted was my post. The original is here:Found Deceased - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019

mine is here:
Found Deceased - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #43

The person (op) was @anamanunee

Thank you so much, @diggndeeperstill...... I wanted to clear up this am....so thankful for your help...

 

[Tortoise]

Do we know for sure that Alex lived in Lori's appartment no 175 for a week before moving into his own unit no 170? The info on the timeline apparently came from interviewing Lori's neighbor. Is there renting history to corroborate that claim? If accurate, Alex would have moved shortly before Tylee was last seen. Did Tylee even have her own space with Alex staying at Lori's?

According to the same neighbor, a week after coming to Rexburg JJ told the neigbor's kid that he and his sister were going to visit grandma. Again, this was right before Tylee's disappearance. It would indicate premediation - Lori had a plan to disappear both children even though JJ was declared a zombie only on the 18th (that appears to have been a lie to MG). On the other hand, if JJ expected Tylee to go with him, how did he react to her absence? Was she suddendly going away for school? It's strange that he never mentioned it to the neighbor.

Mom of missing Rexburg children fled before FBI raid, neighbor says - Local News 8

It doesn't say a week, but the probable cause affidavit for Chad says Alex initially lived in Lori's unit.