Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Patch Tuesday, Dec 20, 2019.
She's acting for JJ. Smile doesn't extend to her upper face.
I haven't seen anything about her treating the kids badly. I have read comments that Annie made about tension between Lori and Tylee (not unusual with a teen) and about Lori's state of mind. We can all infer all sorts of things (and routinely do!) but I have yet to hear/see any specific examples of mistreating the kids prior to murdering them.
A high quality photo of Tylee Ryan & JJ Vallow w/ Alex Cox at Yellowstone on 9/8/19. released by FBI. The last day Tylee was seen alive. The remains of the siblings found on the property of Chad Daybell. He & the kids’ mother Lori Vallow are both in jail.
I used to be on the fence as to the death penalty. And it has taken me much time and input and following trials and families to come to a decision on one side of the fence.
It is better for the families I have seen, almost ALL have said after the fact, that life is best so the families don't have to go through years and years and years of appeals and showing up for court and thinking they might be getting out. Other reasons too, but this one fact pushed me over the edge.
Thanks for clarifying that.
I will think someone killed her until/unless I learn that her sick, twisted husband caused her to die of a broken heart.
Yet the way that the affidavit read, that some 2 bones were above, and the rest of bones/flesh IIRC below... supports such. The question is... was the "dismemberment" before or after the burning MOO
** FORENSIC CELLULAR DATA ANALYSIS **
Forensic analysis research of the cellular data (text messages between TD and CD) and geographical location (of AxC) in the CD arrest affidavit are two separate things and depend on two different sets of information obtained from cellular service providers (ie AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile, etc.)
CAST (Cellular Analysis Survey Team) are highly trained professionals within the FBI who provide local LE with investigations by analyzing cellular data. They use a variety of data sets.
A simple explanation of this somewhat complicated method is this:
Q1: How were they able to determine where AxC was?
A1: Geographical data allows CAST to pinpoint the location of an individual at a particular time based on signals from cellular towers. Cellular tower “pings” are not the same as wi-fi pings.
Q2: How do they know what the text messages between TD and CD?
A2: CDR (Call Detail Record) is a data record produced by a telephone calls and/or text (or other telecommunications) that documents the details of a telephone call or other telecommunications transaction (e.g., text message) that passes through that cellular phone (or other device).
If you would like to know more about this very interesting, complicated topic, you can click the links below:
FBI’s Cellular Analysis Survey Team Policy Guide
Journal of Forensics, Security and Law
Forensic Cell Site Analysis: A Validation & Error Mitigation Methodology
Reference: CD Arrest Affidavit
Oh. I didn’t think anyone ever doubted it was him.
FBI Looking for Yellowstone Pics in Search of Missing Idaho Kids - Annielytics.com
FBI searches for clues in Lori Vallow Daybell case. Is Yellowstone National Park next?
Something like that. It's heartbreaking to hear Charles' voice on those 911 calls. He sounds so sweet, calm, and courteous...
Even for Alex, there's nothing in his autopsy report or the 911 call about foaming at the mouth. Not sure where we learned that.
I’ve seen a few mentions about how she treated her kids: one from this poster to our thread way back on December 22. I’ll just copy her post since I can’t quote it. All bolding by me.
I've known this family for 10 years because my daughter was one of Tylee's best friends through elementary & middle school but they haven't kept in touch in a year or so (I am still friends with some of the the family on social media & I can provide further proof to the mods if needed). I stumbled on an article about this tonight & I'm in shock.
Tylee's father fought for custody for YEARS. Weeks after he was granted custody, Charles & Lori up & moved to Hawaii to "start a juice bar" & took Tylee with them. It was a very shady & spur of the moment departure.
Tylee was only suppose to be visiting her mom in town during her court allotted time. Her father tried to get in touch with Lori to arrange a pickup time but by then they had already left for Hawaii. They packed & moved in less than 5 days.
Lori has always had Tylee brainwashed so there was little her father could do to bring her home since Tylee refused to leave. Lori basically gave him an ultimatum- let Tylee stay in Hawaii & visit him twice a year, or she would tell the police that he sexually abused Tylee. (Kind of "funny" that she never mentioned this alleged abuse in the years they fought for custody but only brought out the threat as a last hail Mary).
Tylee's father immediately contacted his lawyer about the threats & they went to the police where he volunteered to undergo days of interrogation, lie detector test, psych evaluations, you name it & he passed everything with flying colors.
At this point, another parent of one of Tylee's friends contacted the police to let them know that Tylee was telling her daughter on the phone about how the whole thing was concocted to ensure that Tylee got to stay in Hawaii.
Two weeks after that, I contacted the police myself because I heard the same "confession" from Tylee when she called my own daughter. My daughter knew what was going on so she put the phone on speaker when Tylee called & I was able to record the conversation. I turned this recording over to the police.
Tylee's motivation for wanting to stay in Hawaii was because Lori allowed her to be homeschooled & sleep all day. For a young teenager with an awkward personality & low self esteem, this was exactly what she wanted. (Tylee verified this on the recording that I have.) She also wanted to stay in Hawaii because nobody with a single brain cell would pick the hell of Arizona over the heaven of Hawaii.
Lori's motivation was to avoid having to pay the child support to Tylee's father that was awarded when he was given custody. (Tylee also verified this on the recording.) In reality, Lori never had many maternal feelings toward Tylee because Lori was a typical Mormon mom who cared more about appearances than she did her own children. Tylee has always struggled with her weight & Lori never missed an opportunity shame her for it. Lori's fat shaming Tylee started in middle school & I witnessed it myself many times when Tylee was at our home & put her mom on speaker phone so we could hear how verbally abusive she was acting. These same feelings carried over to JJ since he had a lot of behavioral & mental challenges so he didn't fit up to the Mormon perfection.
Before the molestation threats started, Tylee's father generously paid for my daughter's plane ticket to go visit Tylee in Hawaii over Spring Break. I have a few stories to share about this visit but I want to double check with my daughter for some missing details before I post about it.
I have so much more to say about this but I'm going to need to sleep on it because I can't think clearly right now. I apologize for how poorly written my post is but I'll try to form a more coherent one tomorrow after I get a chance to read through this thread. Let me know if you have any specific questions.
If they are alive then I 100% believe that Tylee's maternal grandparents know where she & JJ are right now. They are financially well off & would lay down their lives to protect Lori since she does no wrong in their eyes. Needless to say, Lori's narcissism was inherited from them.
I also think there is little chance that they returned to Hawaii since they had gotten involved in some shady business practices there & fled the state in the same haste in which they left Arizona. While things were shady there, I don't believe his business partners have anything to do with this disappearance in case anyone was wondering. The problems were mostly due to Charles being a greedy dick & wouldn't be worth anyone harming the children over it.
Last edited: Dec 22, 2019
we also have Cheryl Wheeler’s words-
A year after Charles and Lori got married, Cheryl became concerned about Lori’s mental state.
“She just seemed off. There were a lot of strange goings-on at their home to the point that a judge ordered cameras to be put in their home to protect the children,” Cheryl recalls.
Charles Vallow's ex-wife had concerns about Lori Daybell over 10 years ago and thinks his shooting death was '100% planned' | East Idaho News
And we have how Lori treated Charles Vallows young sons. Though not her own kids, I’d say indicative of her empathy.
It was July 2019 and Cheryl was in her Austin, Texas, home when her 24-year-old son, whose father is Charles, walked into the room.
“He had just literally received a text from Lori (Charles’ wife) saying his dad was dead,” Cheryl tells EastIdahoNews.com. “We were shocked. He tried calling her back, he tried texting, but she would not answer.”
'Cult' mom Lori Vallow waited 32 hours to tell her husband's sons that he was dead over TEXT | Daily Mail Online
'Cult' mom Lori Vallow waited 32 hours to tell her estranged husband's sons that their father had died and then refused to tell them how it happened - despite having been there when her brother killed him.
Let me be clear, I believe Risperidone was used in the deaths of Tylee, JJ, TD, and AC.
I am NOT saying LV and CD are some kind of super smart poison specialists.
I think it was as simple as LV observing the effects of the drug on J.J. (sleepiness, etc.) and thought, “I wonder what A LOT of this drug will do”?
She's acting for JJ. Smile doesn't extend to her upper face.
The scales of light dark, 2d, 3d, zombie and possession, it being a "higher" level to be dead than be a failure, to grieve, etc are all very good matches for a certain well known 'religion' common in certain hollywood people and one of whom is currently up on charges of rape. The rough outline of the two religions (using this term very loosely here) is somewhat compatible. Alternative, one having a newish idea that another religion with a similar outer space narrative might consider the other enemies from long ago - also fits their basic high level narrative of being super military warrior gods of yore in a long galactic battle.
Just saying that Chad's influence for these occultic ideas is a good match for someone who has picked up an influence from a certain group.
From the family insider on this video at 44 minutes in.
Snipped for relevance
There's a town near me with a cemetery that people go to for picnics. It has the best view around.
Side note: In that same cemetery, a burial plot was sold twice in error....Yep, the first owners came by to deposit a loved one, and oops.... And, you guessed it, it was the spot with the best view.
Given that, I'm thinking you wouldn't even have to put a murdered body into an already-occupied spot. you could pretty much put it anywhere in a cemetery and no one would be a whole lot the wiser.
So, yes, there are many kinds of cemeteries...
We all do some personal myth-building on a daily basis. My most recent is "I haven't gained THAT much weight since the pandemic." (Self-delusion)
Then I see my neighbors while out walking the dog and they say I look fine (support of a peer group).
Then I try to get into my regular jeans and it's sausage-city. (Conflicting information to peer group, confirmation of worst fears)
So I think "Oh, shoot, I bet that pair got dried on high and shrank," so I try another pair. Same result. (Cognitive dissonance, dangit)
If I REALLY need to believe I haven't gained weight I will find someone to confirm my myth (back to peer confirmation, because it's really handy when the truth stares you in the face).
Maybe they will say "Yeah, but you haven't gained half as much as JimmyJoe down the block, he's huge!" (Comparison again, but this time it diminishes my crime, because I'm clearly "superior" to JimmyJoe, right? Neighbor said so!)
Then I think "Well, I have a while before things open up and I have to look presentable in my regular clothes" (true, but reverts responsibility back to me, and that's uncomfortable).
So I go find someone else who will help me displace that blame/responsibility onto COVID or a political party or wild burros or star charts or weird gamma rays from the TV or whatever.
As long as you can find a peer group who will agree wild burros and TV gamma rays cause weight gain (as opposed to my anxious eating or hours down the WS rabbit hole sitting & sucking down sweet tea), then it's SO much more comfortable than to own the blame/responsibility.
And YEAH, it's a huge leap from justifying 15 pounds to zombies and mercy killings and the 144,000, but those believers don't land in that group without a major lack of self to begin with (I.e. MG asking Nate if she's crazy to think these things are crazy).
Cults are very good at the "us vs them" game, which imparts an even greater break from reality.
Cults are also good at confirming self-righteous behavior, "THEY wouldn't be so appalled at our behavior if they understood we were actually helping them rid the world of zombies! Unappreciative b4st4rds!"
And cycle back to self-confirmation, "I'm so glad we're not unenlightened like all of THEM!"
"I'm glad I didn't gain as much weight as JimmyJoe because then I'd be REALLY out of control."
And here we are, confirming among ourselves that this behavior of LV/CD/AC/their group is most definitely unacceptable fringe behavior, because if we can't get a "Why?" we still need to confirm some kind of safety among the herd, right?
I think the key to believing anything questionable (good/bad/otherwise) is the ratio of self and self-confidence to peer influence. Even if you're 100% confident in your actions/beliefs, you tend to still seek confirmation now and then. Maybe that's not always social confirmation, could be through your paycheck - "Why yes, I am valued at work, look at alllll this money!" or the positive results you see, "Teaching donkeys to bowl is definitely making the world a better place - look at how the donkeys AND the audience are laughing!"
And with that, thank you, all of you WSs, seriously, for helping me believe this situation is so far beyond the pale I need not worry about my whole neighborhood taking up this craziness, and with that cognitive peace, I might get some work done today....
(Sorry my posts seem inevitably long - I cogitate on these ideas for a while before responding.)
Can someone explain to me what that exactly means in layman's language, I am confused about what exactly needs to be filed? and by whom? Thank you in advance.
That's not a new photo.... Maybe the FBI just published it, but it's been on WS.
You're post got me thinking. It's been said here on WS that certain toxins or poisons are difficult to detect after embalmment or time, especially if you don't know what you're looking for. If they can find a cause of death from the remains of JJ who's body was found intact and not embalmed or burned, perhaps they can then use that information to focus on specific trace elements in the deaths of the others. With that, if the method of murder was the m.o. of the murderers, wouldn't it be something if they can also find or perhaps even by now, already found these substances in someone's house, apartment, barn, or car?
The court has a hearing scheduled now for July 1. At least one of the parties has let the court know they would prefer more time (most likely the defense, by my guess) and the court has announced it will be amenable to moving the hearing to August, but only if both sides agree to the continuance in writing. The court does not want to continue the hearing and have one of the sides complain about the new setting or claim unavailability. This is how the court puts pressure on the parties to agree to the continuance. If they don't agree it will go forward as scheduled for July.