CANADA Canada - Elizabeth Bain, 22, Scarborough, Ont, 19 June 1990 #2

[eyesonly]

Lexiintoronto wrote:
Her mother also testified that EB didn’t like to carry a purse unless it was to something formal.

Nobody here has ever talked about a "purse" as was the question asked to Mrs Bain.
Nice trick by the Crown and Mrs Bain so the
jury gets a different idea than the truth.
Funny how the Crown didn't ask the correct
question which would have been using the
word "wallet" and not "purse".
The item in question is a wallet.
EB was seen at approx 3:30pm at the intersection of Kingston Rd and Lawrence, coming from the east.
So if you're suggesting that EB would leave the house around 2-2:30pm, then be seen at 3:30pm, with a passenger, at Kingston Rd and Lawrence coming from the east on Kingston Rd, which is at least being out somewhere for an hour and obviously doing a fair amount of driving, and she wouldn't have taken her wallet with her id and driver's license with her, but only her bank card, then I guess that's your reality.
Imo that isn't logical whatsoever.

Not to split hairs, but I looked back: it was EB’s mother who testified that she found $15 remaining in EB’s wallet. (587)

When do you think her memory would be best, on the Wednesday the 20th when she told the officer at the house that there was $30 left in EB's wallet, or about nine months later when Mrs Bain's and the whole family's testimonies and statements have been tailored to make RB look guilty.
EB took $80 out and there was $30 found in her wallet.
If you want to go with your $65, and go down the wrong path to come to whatever conclusions your looking for, just like the police did, feel free to do so.

And a word of advice. Be careful what you are reading and believing because every person in this family committed perjury, every single one, with the sole intention of helping the Crown convict an innocent person.
It sickens me. Losing a daughter is absolutely no reason to lie and alter your stories to make someone look guilty. Even if the suspect was really guilty, imo, there is no excuse for knowingly committing perjury to help the crown put the person away, let alone doing it against an innocent person.

Whenever RB gets his civil suit over with, I really hope he sues this family's *advertiser censored* off and takes everything they have for what they did to him without hesitation and without regret to put an innocent person in jail for something they likely know who was really responsible and are protecting that person.
(Suing the family is absolutely my own opinion).

Gotta take a break from the site again. The level of deception, lies, law breaking, by the police, the crown and this family just gets too much to deal with some times.
One day it will all come out, and will probably shatter your reality of how our justice system really works.
The justice system doesn't give a f... about EB, and never has, and never will.

Gotta go before I really let loose lol.
See ya when I see ya.

 

[eyesonly]

On last comment about Mrs B's prelim testimony about the money left in the wallet.
She testifies:
""Not very much, maybe fifteen dollars or something. Because I remember spending it too"".

1) why wasn't the amount of money seized when the wallet was seized for evidence.
2) because Mrs B went and took her missing daughter's money out of her missing daughter's wallet and spent it.

What kind of mother would stoop that low to doing that. That was rhetorical, not looking for any bleeding hearts trying to make up an excuse for this lady's actions.

Mrs Bain was a long time nurse and Mr B was a long time engineer for Ontario Hydro. They had three or four houses at the time of their daughter's disappearance.
They didn't need the money.
That is only one example of what this family was like and where their priorities were.
When EB disappeared their only priority was self preservation, both financially and personally, at all costs.

IMO

Btw here is the prelim testimony of the officer who did the follow up visit on the Wednesday the 20th at dinner/evening time. He is using his notes that were made.on that day from that visit, and not from memory.

""There was a CIBC account. There had been a withdrawal the day before that, of eighty dollars and there was thirty dollars located in her purse upstairs......""

Bolding of letters is mine.
Okay now, see ya when I see ya.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Lexiintoronto wrote:
Her mother also testified that EB didn’t like to carry a purse unless it was to something formal.

Nobody here has ever talked about a "purse" as was the question asked to Mrs Bain.
Nice trick by the Crown and Mrs Bain so the
jury gets a different idea than the truth.
Funny how the Crown didn't ask the correct
question which would have been using the
word "wallet" and not "purse".
The item in question is a wallet.
EB was seen at approx 3:30pm at the intersection of Kingston Rd and Lawrence, coming from the east.
So if you're suggesting that EB would leave the house around 2-2:30pm, then be seen at 3:30pm, with a passenger, at Kingston Rd and Lawrence coming from the east on Kingston Rd, which is at least being out somewhere for an hour and obviously doing a fair amount of driving, and she wouldn't have taken her wallet with her id and driver's license with her, but only her bank card, then I guess that's your reality.
Imo that isn't logical whatsoever.

Not to split hairs, but I looked back: it was EB’s mother who testified that she found $15 remaining in EB’s wallet. (587)

When do you think her memory would be best, on the Wednesday the 20th when she told the officer at the house that there was $30 left in EB's wallet, or about nine months later when Mrs Bain's and the whole family's testimonies and statements have been tailored to make RB look guilty.
EB took $80 out and there was $30 found in her wallet.
If you want to go with your $65, and go down the wrong path to come to whatever conclusions your looking for, just like the police did, feel free to do so.

And a word of advice. Be careful what you are reading and believing because every person in this family committed perjury, every single one, with the sole intention of helping the Crown convict an innocent person.
It sickens me. Losing a daughter is absolutely no reason to lie and alter your stories to make someone look guilty. Even if the suspect was really guilty, imo, there is no excuse for knowingly committing perjury to help the crown put the person away, let alone doing it against an innocent person.

Whenever RB gets his civil suit over with, I really hope he sues this family's *advertiser censored* off and takes everything they have for what they did to him without hesitation and without regret to put an innocent person in jail for something they likely know who was really responsible and are protecting that person.
(Suing the family is absolutely my own opinion).

Gotta take a break from the site again. The level of deception, lies, law breaking, by the police, the crown and this family just gets too much to deal with some times.
One day it will all come out, and will probably shatter your reality of how our justice system really works.
The justice system doesn't give a f... about EB, and never has, and never will.

Gotta go before I really let loose lol.
See ya when I see ya.

I’m aware of what confirmation bias is and its pitfalls.

I haven’t read about a connection to the amount of money missing and a possible purchase. That is the only thing I was wondering about. Does the amount she possibly had with her mean something?

Here if you state something as fact, you sometimes are asked to provide the source of your information. That’s all I was trying to do.

EB was out for a walk wearing shorts, according to her mother. So, yes: putting an atm card in her pocket makes sense if she planned to stop by the bank.

Driving without your driver’s license makes no sense to me, but we know her driver’s license was found in her room, while witnesses, including RB, saw her car close to the park and ultimately her car was found blocks away.

So yes—she could have left home twice that day without her license. Or she wasn’t driving...I don’t know.

Recently the killer of a young girl who was murdered 38 years ago was identified through DNA. But they had a good lead 6 years ago.

“After following the new leads from Advance DNA, detectives also realized that a 2014 anonymous tip cited a "similar name" to Jarrell's, though at the time it wasn't verified due to limited information, McConnell said.”

DNA evidence points to 8-year-old's killer after 38 years - CNN

They had an incomplete tip that could have led them to the killer...that sat in an evidence box or computer file. This case is a great example as to why EB’s case should be revisited. And why details matter. Just my opinion.

 

[harry poppins]

And a word of advice. Be careful what you are reading and believing because every person in this family committed perjury, every single one, with the sole intention of helping the Crown convict an innocent person.
It sickens me.

Innocent people do not have any reason to lie, especially in a court of law,

The B family somehow succeeded in fooling LE, detectives, investigators, the media, the public, a judge, and a jury,

They likely wanted RB convicted so the case would be closed, and the real culprit would not be found,

My Opinion Only

 

[kemo]

I have been following this case closely for a while and this latest discourse indicates that some new information has come to light. I am particularly interested in the amount of petrol that had been consumed after Liz’s last fill-up the day. Why there is no way to determine the exact distance the Tercel was driven, that information would pretty well answer the question of whether the body was disposed of within the metro area or deep into the rural area. Is that information available?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I have been following this case closely for a while and this latest discourse indicates that some new information has come to light. I am particularly interested in the amount of petrol that had been consumed after Liz’s last fill-up the day. Why there is no way to determine the exact distance the Tercel was driven, that information would pretty well answer the question of whether the body was disposed of within the metro area or deep into the rural area. Is that information available?

From ‘No Claim To Mercy’, page 124, (Detective Rowntree, CFS):

“Roundtree called mechanic from the police garage and had him bring a big tank of gasoline over to the CFS. Using a 1 L jug he filled the car’s gas tank up to its neck. They counted a little over 12.5 L (an amount, it was later determined, that, taking into account the small trips the car made within Scarborough after Mrs. Bain filled the tank on June 18, would allow it to travel approximately 80 km away from Colonel Danforth park before returning.)”

I’ll search to see if there’s any more information.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

EB’s car as it was found. (From article by Derek Finkle.)
https://nicollinvestigations.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/baltovich-may04.pdf

My notes:

Detective Rowntree testified that the car was left in reverse gear with the handbrake on. The ground was fairly level.

They collected fibres, but didn’t analyze them as they had nothing to compare them to.

Fuel consumption tests were done with the aid of an expert from Shell in 1991, a year after the disappearance.

(2836) Detective Rowntree removed the gear shift knob with his bare hands. It was entered into evidence. The knob was clear of prints —except for the tips of his own.

There was a partial shoe print found on the driver’s side door, but no other tire tracks or footprints found around the car of any evidentiary value. (3R Autobody staff and at least one witness had walked around the car and I believe it had also rained prior to the forensics team arrival.)

The car was found approximately here, across from 3R Autobody (The church that the Bain family attended is circled.) Google Maps:

 

[Track]

Does anyone know roughly where on the 401, the witness said they saw the car?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Does anyone know roughly where on the 401, the witness said they saw the car?

I’m trying to find it...are you thinking of the guy who was upset and went to the bar?

Here’s one post :
CANADA - Canada - Elizabeth Bain, 22, Scarborough, Ont, 19 June 1990 #2

Eyesonly said it was just east of the park near Old Kingston Rd. & “Dawson”, but I don’t know if that’s a typo and he meant “Lawson”. I cannot find Dawson in that area.

Google maps:


I’ll keep looking. I was thinking about possible witness sightings today.

ETA: I had wondered if she had been teaching someone (the killer) how to drive a standard that afternoon. Only because it could explain why she left her wallet behind.

Two possible witness sightings had EB in the passenger seat.

Her youngest brother, PB, also said he noticed a difference in how the clutch worked when EB’s car was returned from the CFS.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Now of course I found it. The account of the possible witness sighting (KN) on the 401 starts on page 479 of No Claim To Mercy.

He was eastbound, headed to Oshawa, passing through the Rouge Hill area when he believes he spotted EB’s car.

He said a male was driving erratically and hitting a female that matched the description of EB.

‘EB’s’ car fell behind him in traffic and he lost sight of the car before reaching Ajax.

ETA: KN said this happened between 7:15 & 7:40 pm the evening EB disappeared.

 

[eyesonly]

I’m trying to find it...are you thinking of the guy who was upset and went to the bar?

Here’s one post :
CANADA - Canada - Elizabeth Bain, 22, Scarborough, Ont, 19 June 1990 #2

Eyesonly said it was just east of the park near Old Kingston Rd. & “Dawson”, but I don’t know if that’s a typo and he meant “Lawson”. I cannot find Dawson in that area.

Lexi, I did mean Lawson and not Dawson but this was in reference to a totally different sighting than the KN 401 sighting

 

[eyesonly]

I’m trying to find it...are you thinking of the guy who was upset and went to the bar?

Here’s one post :
CANADA - Canada - Elizabeth Bain, 22, Scarborough, Ont, 19 June 1990 #2

Eyesonly said it was just east of the park near Old Kingston Rd. & “Dawson”, but I don’t know if that’s a typo and he meant “Lawson”. I cannot find Dawson in that area.

Google maps:
View attachment 254041

I’ll keep looking. I was thinking about possible witness sightings today.

ETA: I had wondered if she had been teaching someone (the killer) how to drive a standard that afternoon. Only because it could explain why she left her wallet behind.

Two possible witness sightings had EB in the passenger seat.

Her youngest brother, PB, also said he noticed a difference in how the clutch worked when EB’s car was returned from the CFS.

Lexi, I did mean Lawson and not Dawson but this was in regards to a totally different sighting than the KN 401 sighting.

 

[eyesonly]

Calling all Websleuths sleuths. We are looking for any information on a particular individual as to where he may have lived at the time of EB's disappearance, June 1990.
We believe he may have lived in the Durham region at this time but cannot find the place he lived at.
He passed away in 2010 which has been confirmed by police.
Having difficulty finding any information on him post 1990.
We have some pre 1990 addresses for him from his family and his last known address when he passed away.

If you're interested in the challenge, pm me and I will give you his name and some details as I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post the name on the site even though he has passed away.

If I'm allowed to post his name, as I have his daughter's permission to do so, would an administrator please let me know. Thanks

 

[eyesonly]

Calling all Websleuths sleuths. We are looking for any information on a particular individual as to where he may have lived at the time of EB's disappearance, June 1990.
We believe he may have lived in the Durham region at this time but cannot find the place he lived at.
He passed away in 2010 which has been confirmed by police.
Having difficulty finding any information on him post 1990.
We have some pre 1990 addresses for him from his family and his last known address when he passed away.

If you're interested in the challenge, pm me and I will give you his name and some details as I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post the name on the site even though he has passed away.

If I'm allowed to post his name, as I have his daughter's permission to do so, would an administrator please let me know. Thanks

As fate would have it, not long after I posted the above post, I found the information I was looking for.
Crazy crazy stuff.

 

[GlasgowSmile]

Hey everyone,

So, I've been lurking in this thread for sometime now. I have a bit of an obsession with this case. I have been collecting articles, books etc., on this case for sometime and weeding through so much information. I just wish that this poor girl could at a minimum be brought home and laid to rest properly.

Not sure if anyone who also has been 'sleuthing' this case for awhile has a good document dump that they would be willing to share as a lot of the links amongst the two threads on this case are now dead/unavailable and I would love to be able to access more information.

Eventually I would love to contribute more to the conversation on this case but would like to read everything under the sun that is available to me before I do so.

Please reach out if you have any information you could share that maybe is not readily available online that you have maybe saved previously! TIA - I honestly, truly appreciate it!

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Hey everyone,

So, I've been lurking in this thread for sometime now. I have a bit of an obsession with this case. I have been collecting articles, books etc., on this case for sometime and weeding through so much information. I just wish that this poor girl could at a minimum be brought home and laid to rest properly.

Not sure if anyone who also has been 'sleuthing' this case for awhile has a good document dump that they would be willing to share as a lot of the links amongst the two threads on this case are now dead/unavailable and I would love to be able to access more information.

Eventually I would love to contribute more to the conversation on this case but would like to read everything under the sun that is available to me before I do so.

Please reach out if you have any information you could share that maybe is not readily available online that you have maybe saved previously! TIA - I honestly, truly appreciate it!

My notes, articles etc. are all hard copy that I keep within Finkle’s book on the case. RB took part in a podcast, ‘Murder Was The Case’, that was mentioned here, and at the end they said they were going to link the trial transcripts on the podcast’s site. I’m not sure if they did. Maybe check with Dr. Mellor on Twitter?

RB was also planning on setting up a site with the transcripts and more information, but I don’t know if that’s still in the works.

O/T but there are a few items still held in evidence that had DNA they could not link to anyone. Within the last few years they checked to see if it was Paul Bernardo’s, but it wasn’t.

Could genetic genealogy be used in this case using the results of those tests? We’ve had a few big breaks in identifying unknown victims and killers recently.

Just putting this out in the void. Maybe someone will break out the evidence boxes one day again.

 

[GlasgowSmile]

My notes, articles etc. are all hard copy that I keep within Finkle’s book on the case. RB took part in a podcast, ‘Murder Was The Case’, that was mentioned here, and at the end they said they were going to link the trial transcripts on the podcast’s site. I’m not sure if they did. Maybe check with Dr. Mellor on Twitter?

RB was also planning on setting up a site with the transcripts and more information, but I don’t know if that’s still in the works.

O/T but there are a few items still held in evidence that had DNA they could not link to anyone. Within the last few years they checked to see if it was Paul Bernardo’s, but it wasn’t.

Could genetic genealogy be used in this case using the results of those tests? We’ve had a few big breaks in identifying unknown victims and killers recently.

Just putting this out in the void. Maybe someone will break out the evidence boxes one day again.

Lexii,
My mom and I were actually discussing the use of reverse genealogy and this case just yesterday. It's proven so useful in other cases around the world. I picked up a copy of No Claim to Mercy yesterday and am already over half way through it & have been listening to the Podcast as well.

I also hope that someone will take a look at this case again. Once I get through my current supply of reading materials I'll post some thoughts!

 

[eyesonly]

Welcome GlasgowSmile.
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
Always good to have a fresh perspective and ideas.

Lexi wrote:
""O/T but there are a few items still held in evidence that had DNA they could not link to anyone. ""

Hey Lexi, I'm not aware of any items still or ever were in evidence that had unknown dna on them. Fingerprints yes, but not dna.
Can you refresh me on the items please, old age may be getting the better of me lol.
Thanks, much appreciated.

Cheers

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Welcome GlasgowSmile.
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
Always good to have a fresh perspective and ideas.

Lexi wrote:
""O/T but there are a few items still held in evidence that had DNA they could not link to anyone. ""

Hey Lexi, I'm not aware of any items still or ever were in evidence that had unknown dna on them. Fingerprints yes, but not dna.
Can you refresh me on the items please, old age may be getting the better of me lol.
Thanks, much appreciated.

Cheers

No trace of Paul Bernardo's DNA was ever found in Elizabeth Bain's car....
...Not from a list of exhibits submitted to the Centre of Forensic Sciences that included: a package of du Maurier cigarettes (Bernardo's preferred brand but also the brand smoked, on the rare occasions she did smoke, by Bain), three matchbooks, three cigarettes (one with the filter tip removed), two blankets from the trunk, a car door panel, blue carpet from the interior of the car, a "Sprite'' pop can, a pen, a Kleenex, two live matches and fibres from the rear of the Toyota.

These were the exhibits analyzed in a second round of testing at the behest of Baltovich's defence team, in 2006, the results provided in February of this year....

...The fact remains, there is nothing connecting Bernardo to that car. Baltovich's DNA profile matches semen and saliva stains recovered from blankets found in the trunk. This is essentially irrelevant since Baltovich told police he and Bain had made love on those blankets two nights before she disappeared....

..Robert Baltovich was frequently in Elizabeth's car because he was her boyfriend," says defence counsel James Lockyer. "There was no DNA attributable to (Baltovich) found in the interior of the car, where Elizabeth's body had been. That helps put in perspective the lack of significance of failing to find any of Bernardo's DNA in the car."...

No proof in Bain's car to pin killing on Bernardo | The Star

 

[eyesonly]

No proof in Bain's car to pin killing on Bernardo | The Star

Thanks Lexi. I see where you got it from.

This reporter hated RB for whatever reason and was very bias against him.
She says:
""Given all that activity, at least minute transfer of forensic evidence should reasonably have been uncovered – either 18 years ago or more recently, with DNA analysis much more advanced. It wasn't.""

She was so biased against RB she doesn't realize that her argument to exclude Bernardo also excluded RB because no dna trace , not even a minute amount of RB's was found either.
And I agree with her that whomever did this, there should have been some type of transfer evidence either in EBs car or his own.

The police/crown theorized that RB took a puff on the cigarette to make it look like a smoker was the culprit but they never tested it for saliva to compare to RB's.
That's either complete incompetence or they pretty well knew RB wasn't the person who harmed EB.

And btw, regarding the semen and saliva Dna this reporter stated that was on the blanket in the trunk that was RB's. Turns out EBs father's dna was on the blanket as well.
Funny how she didn't mention that.