NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 #15

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minazoe said:
I also think she was not an idiot and did not run into the woods. The fact that she knows the area , I think rules that out. She would know it was a bad idea. mOO
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That's the frustrating part about this case. We will never know if she was drinking or how intoxicated she was due to a lack of evidence.
 
minazoe said:
I also think she was not an idiot and did not run into the woods. The fact that she knows the area , I think rules that out. She would know it was a bad idea. mOO
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While I personally do not believe she walked into the woods, it's not out of the realm of possibility. The White Mountains was a place of safe haven for Maura. From the account of Sharon Rausch, her and Bill wanted to get married up there. From her father's account, the family had been going up there since they were kids. So she had a history. Why did she suddenly decide to return? What was on her mind?
 
well liking the White Mountains and someone who is a runner and a cadet, a person knowing of the dangers of running into the woods on a cold night, are two different things..

I like the Grand Canyon But Im not going to get drunk and go wandering down the footpaths
in the dark.

I have no trouble placing her there. I have no trouble believing she is a knuckle head, but not
that much of a knucklehead.

I think there was major drama going on...hence drinking , which is what alcoholics do..it's hard to know which came first..the drinking or the troubles. Thats for sure. mOO
 
minazoe said:
well liking the White Mountains and someone who is a runner and a cadet, a person knowing of the dangers of running into the woods on a cold night, are two different things..

I like the Grand Canyon But Im not going to get drunk and go wandering down the footpaths
in the dark.

I have no trouble placing her there. I have no trouble believing she is a knuckle head, but not
that much of a knucklehead.

I think there was major drama going on...hence drinking , which is what alcoholics do..it's hard to know which came first..the drinking or the troubles. Thats for sure. mOO
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What is she running away from that obligated her to buy almost $40.00 worth of alcoholic content? This is what is rather troubling. We don't have a clue - except for what the events that unfolded before her disappearance. We know from her catatonic state, the phone call between her and Kathleen greatly upset her. Kathleen had returned from a rehabilitation center and her boyfriend at the time exposed her to the alcohol the very day she left. The triggers of what she was trying to control from her addiction. Do you think Maura had inner-demons that she was battling herself? Why the secrecy? Do you think that the pressure to do well and to portray a level of success put undo stress on her? Could the weight of nursing school have been too much for Maura to handle? While everyone around Maura thought she was fine, it was quite the opposite.
 
there was definitely drama going on.

I think the booze was purchased because she was either meeting someone or going somewhere with a refrigerator. If she was truly experiencing real alcoholism , this wouldn't be an outrageous amount of liquor.

thats another reason I think she was trapped somewhere and murdered...because she never came back for her booze... she never returned to the car for anything.

people do run away from accidents...but in my opinion I see a vulnerable woman who was in the midst of throwing her future to the wind and a woman who may have trusted a helpful neighbor in her predicament.

this reminds me of Shannon Gilbert in some odd ways. mOO

ADD ON: I really think she would have come back for her booze if she could have. hence I think. she was planning to possibly go back to the car... maybe she walked up the road trying to get a phone signal...and the neighbor said, hey come on in you can use my phone..mOO


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Chad_York said:
While I personally do not believe she walked into the woods, it's not out of the realm of possibility. The White Mountains was a place of safe haven for Maura. From the account of Sharon Rausch, her and Bill wanted to get married up there. From her father's account, the family had been going up there since they were kids. So she had a history. Why did she suddenly decide to return? What was on her mind?
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Maybe she just needed a break from what was going on in her life. I had a creepy professor that just made college feel unsafe and an ex boyfriend that made things worse I decided to drive to New Orleans. I luckily am alive and made it there safely. I did have a minor car accident but the car still drove. Maura wrote emails suggesting she had every intention of returning to school. Even if she wasn't sure what she was planning she left that door open for school. No one can say what she was feeling for sure but plenty of college kids have done similar things and most don't disappear for years. MOO
 
In January 2019 I had a breakdown from stress that lead to a multi-state roadtrip and really ridiculous choices that I shake my head at looking back. I know Maura's choices during this time don't make sense to a lot of people, but they do make sense to me.
 
minazoe said:
there was definitely drama going on.

I think the booze was purchased because she was either meeting someone or going somewhere with a refrigerator. If she was truly experiencing real alcoholism , this wouldn't be an outrageous amount of liquor.

thats another reason I think she was trapped somewhere and murdered...because she never came back for her booze... she never returned to the car for anything.

people do run away from accidents...but in my opinion I see a vulnerable woman who was in the midst of throwing her future to the wind and a woman who may have trusted a helpful neighbor in her predicament.

this reminds me of Shannon Gilbert in some odd ways. mOO

ADD ON: I really think she would have come back for her booze if she could have. hence I think. she was planning to possibly go back to the car... maybe she walked up the road trying to get a phone signal...and the neighbor said, hey come on in you can use my phone..mOO


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If she was trying to get away from everything getting the police involved in another accident would put a damper on that. Technically if the keys weren't in the ignition and she was drinking while waiting for cops they couldn't prove she was drinking before the accident. That might something that could involve court idk. Maybe she got into a car looking for cell service to call someone for a ride. I would think she might get into a car with someone closer to her age. If she was walking she probably wouldn't want to carry heavy alcohol bottles. The lure of a phone or someone offering to tow the car without police might be enticing. MOO.
 
she disappeared so quickly..how many cars would have passed? seems like she just stepped through a door...thats why I think they should study that property further.

I've been all around the world with my Maura ideas, but honestly I hate the thought that someone is possibly getting away with killing her that night.

mOO
 
she disappeared so quickly..how many cars would have passed? seems like she just stepped through a door...thats why I think they should study that property further.

I've been all around the world with my Maura ideas, but honestly I hate the thought that someone is possibly getting away with killing her that night.

still get a Shannon Gilbert vibe too, like just like Shannon , kind of in trouble, far from home, possible mania, possible hypothermia, contact with neighbors.
she was found behind one of the homes of a "kindly doctor". and you know the rest.
mOO
 
I tend to fall into the Occam's Razor camp: she was dazed and in a panic from the accident, perhaps slightly tipsy, possibly with a head injury (however mild it may have been). If the cops show up, she's afraid she'll be arrested (and after all of the trouble she's been in in the past few days? it's the last straw)--it's not the most rational thought, but she's not in a good state of mind. She gets out of the car, crosses the road, and runs into the woods. She's a good runner, even though it's dark out--she's used to the woods and she just keeps running. After roughly half a mile or so, she (unwittingly) reaches the river, and steps through the ice. That's it. The ice and water and current makes it difficult for the search parties to find her, and they just never do. But I hope they do find something someday, for resolution's sake.

I realize there is evidence that disputes this, but I'm not really convinced by the dog searches. I don't think she got into a car. There's maybe a 10 percent chance that the opportunistic killer theory is correct. And her committing suicide (I just don't think she'd do that. She wanted to run away to think, not kill herself) or running away to Canada--those theories are pretty silly.
 
Another thing...I think she planned to return to the car once the cops were gone. (Again, she was not in a good state of mind...her thoughts were not rational. She just didn't want to get the rap for a DUI because she probably had been drinking a little.)
 
Aphra said:
Another thing...I think she planned to return to the car once the cops were gone. (Again, she was not in a good state of mind...her thoughts were not rational. She just didn't want to get the rap for a DUI because she probably had been drinking a little.)
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Would that be considered leaving the scene of an accident? Are you allowed to leave to find cell service or get help or can you leave your car as long as it isn't blocking traffic?
 
Nadal said:
Faith Westman said Butch was there for 1-2 minutes tops, she saw him drive away then there was a flurry of activity around the car, her and her husband was confused on the gender of the person but she definitely saw somebody. This corroborates Butch's story unless you believe he had an accomplice or Faith is lying for some reason.

"7. Atwood is there 1-2 minutes tops Faith says. 8. Faith sees the driver put on the flashers. 9. Driver goes to the trunk then back to car lights going on and off and She see a red dot on the passengers side."

"After Atwood drove away, Faith Westman noticed the Saturn's interior lights switch on and off and witnessed a flurry of activity at the rear of the car, including a person standing at the trunk, according to private investigator John Smith, who spoke with the Westmans after the accident."

Dogs are fallible, his wife said he went to look for her with Cyril Smith a police officer unless you think he's involved too then that actually points away from Butch. He wasn't driving a car he was driving a bus, and he parked it at his house immediately he didn't take it anywhere.
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Actually, Cecil Smith said Butch offered to help look for her after Cecil arrived at the scene and that Butch went on his own (unsure of vehicle) and in the direction past his house, past the crash in the direction the car was originally headed.
 
when I hear this it almost makes me feel like someone is chasing her. ( take in account my massively overactive imagination). chasing her in a car.

Does anyone think it's possible that Maura did something bad to someone and was in trouble again?

I've never said this before because I would never want to say anything hurtful about Maura,

but what if her crisis was about something else? she had been convicted of petty crime,
and you have to wonder if she got involved with something and there was trouble because of it.

perhaps it would explain why many questions have gone unanswered from those loyal to her.

mOO
 
minazoe said:
when I hear this it almost makes me feel like someone is chasing her. ( take in account my massively overactive imagination). chasing her in a car.

Does anyone think it's possible that Maura did something bad to someone and was in trouble again?

I've never said this before because I would never want to say anything hurtful about Maura,

but what if her crisis was about something else? she had been convicted of petty crime,
and you have to wonder if she got involved with something and there was trouble because of it.

perhaps it would explain why many questions have gone unanswered from those loyal to her.

mOO
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Well we know that Maura didn't have a real upstanding group of friends (after all look at what her bf turned out to be) so things like that are definitely possible. There is a lot we don't really know about her personal life. Quite honestly even her family might not know a whole lot about her personal life.
 
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