Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #51

[Hatfield]

Doesn't discovery give the defense enough of a look? And has discovery already begun, or not till later?

They may have received the discovery evidence that was used for the preliminary hearing but the prosecution and the defense can both identify and add more newly discovered evidence all the way up to and even during the trial.

One advantage of going through the preliminary is the defense gets to see how the prosecution will present that evidence and their tactics they are going to use to try to convince the judge (in the preliminary) and the jury in the trial.

One thing that can happen is when a prosecution delivers discovery over to the defense they dont necessarily organize it into a nice little package with a bow on top. They sometimes dump massive amounts of information to the defense and so the defense doesnt necessarily know how the prosecution team is going to organize it and present it to the judge and jury.

This to me is one huge advantage of going through the preliminary is the defense gets to see some of how the prosecution is going to lay it all out for a judge and jury.

In this situation with LV she and her lawyer determined it was not advantageous enough and they probably saw enough with CD's preliminary so it wasnt worth it to their case.
All JMO of course.

 

[TheLoadedGoat]

Lori always had a plan. When one thing wasn't working out, she was always brewing another. I think she is one of those people that will not listen to her lawyer, no matter who it is, She will not believe that it is over. She will continue to try to get out of it until they shut the prison cell door. Anyone who tries to talk sense into her (if her Cox family decides to support her) will be shut down. Winning is all that matters. It may not be about money now but about proving to everyone that she was right, i.e., "Look at what these people did to me. They have lied and put me in here." Chad, on the other hand, still has family and some semblance of a life even while in jail. He has a reason to try and make things right.

 

[tripleC]

↑
"(SNIPPED for focus)
3. Am I the only person that has been duped/fooled/betrayed by someone? Why we being so judgmental of MG? Am I the only one that can relate to being fooled hook, line, and sinker? Just something to ponder. Please leave my throat intact. All jmo
I so agree with this. The woman is guilty of being terribly naive, but it's thanks to her candor and willingness to put herself out there that we know as much as we do. She could have taken the Silence road...I'm sure she knew a ton of people would judge her for her nutty ideas but she came forward anyway. The reaction to her choice might cause others to think twice."

Brought that over from last thread. I guess it can be applied to many different subjects, but in the phone call video MG is voicing her concerns about JJ, CV and TD. LV seems to get annoyed and says "for someone who know as much as you know...". MG doesn't try to defend herself by saying what she does or doesn't know. That struck me as odd. If I knew I was recording for the police, I'd surely clear myself on the spot!

ETA quotations

 

[Love Never Fails]

Thinking of the preliminary for Lori that was waived and her trial coming up.

If you get twelve jurors seated and show them the video of Lori and Chad in Hawaii and her performing the hula dance for her new husband, and both of them smiling with rings paid for by Charles, and knowing all the while that those two children were murdered and buried in Chads yard,
SHE IS TOAST.

Add to that the murders of Charles and Tammy, and possible murder investigations of Joe Ryan and Alex Cox, and the years they both spend in prison will be exponentially longer.

Good riddance.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

In "normal" cases waiving a preliminary hearing is unusual because it gives defense counsel a "free" look at some of the prosecution's evidence and that is reason enough to require the state to go through the motions. Many high profile cases are charged through a grand jury process which eliminates the preliminary hearing in most cases because the grand jury's indictment replaces the function of a preliminary hearing and "proves" there is sufficient evidence to go forward with a trial. The cases against Chad and Lori are unusual in that the crimes charged now are clearly NOT the prosecution's objective and simply serve to keep the defendants incarcerated while the murder investigations continue. Frankly, it was a foregone conclusion both Chad and Lori would be bound over for trial. The evidence referred to in the charging documents more than met the low hurdle for a probable cause finding and the prosecution could have simply introduced the phone evidence, Chad's text message and proof of the location of the bodies and moved on. That they chose to play the jailhouse phone call and Melani's conversation were interesting tidbits that were no doubt calculated to be a shot over Lori's bow.

Lori's attorney was faced with a difficult decision. While it would have been useful to learn of any new evidence the State has against his client, he also knew Lori would be on front pages everywhere with her smiling lies highlighted against proof that her children were dead and buried as she spoke. Moreover, the crimes Lori is currently charged with are small potatoes compared to what is coming. Being able to watch Chad's prelim gave enough of a "preview" that going forward with Lori's hearing would not have gained much and likely would have served only to further vilify her in the eyes of potential jurors.

Great post, thanks.

It also brings to mind something I meant to say the other day about the potential upcoming charges in Arizona.

Would the SA prosecutors purposefully want to indict through a grand jury which is secret to ALL, or purposefully do it in open court with a prelim.

Wondering minds will have to wait to see if/when.

Again, thanks for the detailed and thoughtful post.

 

[Love Never Fails]

↑
"(SNIPPED for focus)
3. Am I the only person that has been duped/fooled/betrayed by someone? Why we being so judgmental of MG? Am I the only one that can relate to being fooled hook, line, and sinker? Just something to ponder. Please leave my throat intact. All jmo
I so agree with this. The woman is guilty of being terribly naive, but it's thanks to her candor and willingness to put herself out there that we know as much as we do. She could have taken the Silence road...I'm sure she knew a ton of people would judge her for her nutty ideas but she came forward anyway. The reaction to her choice might cause others to think twice."

Brought that over from last thread. I guess it can be applied to many different subjects, but in the phone call video MG is voicing her concerns about JJ, CV and TD. LV seems to get annoyed and says "for someone who know as much as you know...". MG doesn't try to defend herself by saying what she does or doesn't know. That struck me as odd. If I knew I was recording for the police, I'd surely clear myself on the spot!

ETA quotations

I’m so happy she came forward and is willing to testify.

Other than that, I disagree that she was fooled hook, line and sinker.

I’n not interested in her pity party.

ETA: This is all about two little children who were murdered.

I have no sympathy for all the adults who played a part by being in some cult like following. My sympathies are with Tylee and JJ and Tammy and Charles.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

That could be why then if they never formally announce anything in public.

It is a little strange why they would want to keep it secret though if they kicked someone out because the kicked out person can go on claiming to be a member when they are really not and everyone thinks they are still a member if the organization does not counter it formally and publically.

Oh well, he wont be able to attend any services from where he is going.

@rexsleuth can share the technicalities of Church actions relating to excommunication. So hopefully he will chime in. We have had numerous threads discussing this very issue. Bottom Line: We have no right to know, and will not know.

Was trying to figure out what reasons Lori and her attorney would have to waive the prelim in doing some research I came across this really informative legal page on the subject. The first two reasons it gives are;
1)The defendant intends to plead guilty and wants to avoid publicity.

2)The defendant is guilty of more than the charged offenses and fears further charges from the potentially damning evidence that may come out at the preliminary hearing. Also, if the facts of the case are particularly nasty, and the defendant plans to plead guilty anyway, the less the sentencing judge hears about the facts, the better for the defendant.

I think either one or both of those statements could apply to Lori it would be in her best interest to just plead guilty but I really hope she's not planning on doing that because I want her to have to go face a jury in that court room and hear all the details of the horrible things she has done. She doesn't deserve to be spared from all of that and she definitely doesn't deserve to take the easy way out in my opinion.

When Does it Make Sense to Waive the Preliminary Hearing?

It has been valuable learning about the reasons to waive. Especially because I was thinking that the prosecution might have brought in new charges against Lori at the prelim.

So this explanation does really make sense:
)The defendant is guilty of more than the charged offenses and fears further charges from the potentially damning evidence that may come out at the preliminary hearing. Also, if the facts of the case are particularly nasty, and the defendant plans to plead guilty anyway, the les poos the sentencing judge hears about the facts, the better for the defendant.

We had had some information about Chad's communication with Lori before he was arrested, that he was assuring her that "people were supporting her".. now there is NO ONE to be giving her that false sense of security.... so all information will be damning.


But let me ask WS Wise Wuns a question?? COULD the prosecution have included any conspiracy about Charles as a change to the prelim? That might have been so sweet.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Thinking of the preliminary for Lori that was waived and her trial coming up.

If you get twelve jurors seated and show them the video of Lori and Chad in Hawaii and her performing the hula dance for her new husband, and both of them smiling with rings paid for by Charles, and knowing all the while that those two children were murdered and buried in Chads yard,
SHE IS TOAST.

Add to that the murders of Charles and Tammy, and possible murder investigations of Joe Ryan and Alex Cox, and the years they both spend in prison will be exponentially longer.

Good riddance.

I did note that MG stated near the end of her short interview post prelim of Chad - that her message to them was that they would spend the rest of their lives in jail. With the current charges, nope. Future charges needed to get there, she's confident.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I’m so happy she came forward and is willing to testify.

Other than that, I disagree that she was fooled hook, line and sinker.

I’n not interested in her pity party.

ETA: This is all about two little children who were murdered.

I have no sympathy for all the adults who played a part by being in some cult like following. My sympathies are with Tylee and JJ and Tammy and Charles.

But yesterday post after post was about MG. She isn't the one that killed them, but she was the one being flailed for someone else's crimes. The spotlight, as you said, needs to be on the children, the victims, and the perpetrators. JMO

 

[Synergizer Bunny]

Imo the whole self defense thing was a lie.

I wish that Charles had told Lori that he canceled his life insurance policy (after putting a note on file not to give out any information to anyone that didn't provide the "secret" word which he provided to them).

 

[sunflowerchick]

But yesterday post after post was about MG. She isn't the one that killed them, but she was the one being flailed for someone else's crimes. The spotlight, as you said, needs to be on the children, the victims, and the perpetrators. JMO

Agree wholeheartedly. I have backed out of this thread several times because of the crucifixion of MG, the derogatory comments about attorneys in CD's prelim and a slew of other accusations and judgments. I love this site for the commentary, but this stuff does nothing to help a case...nothing.

 

[Diddian]

Thanks to everyone for all the explanations on things. It is very helpful to me in this case.

One thing I just noticed about MG's statement here if this is accurately transcribed from the taped phone call. Notice what she says and how she phrased this to LV.

Melanie Gibb
“Yeah. Okay, I hope, wow. I hope he’s okay. I hope you guys are okay. I did have a question. I asked Al at one point, your brother if I wanted to know, you know, like where he was? And he said, I did not want to know and that he could not be found. So what does that mean?”

She knew something bad happened.
Her actual question to Alex probably was like this:
"Hey Alex, do I really want to know what happened to JJ?" She knew it was bad.

This is the sort of thing why some of us are not too fond of MG. She knew and yet now is trying to claim ignorance of the whole thing. JMO

Keep in mind that when MG said the words you bolded, she was speaking to Lori and Chad, both of whom had asked her to lie to police. Under those circumstances, it doesn't surprise me that she would soften what she was telling them she had asked Alex in an effort to sound more naive. She was inviting an answer and she wasn't likely to get one if she took on either an accusatory or "I know exactly what happened" tone.

 

[mommacass]

I agree that Charles' death would probably not have been properly investigated without all the other cases that followed. That said, what we currently know about Lori's involvement would (IMO) not be enough to convict her of conspiring to kill Charles. Even some of her family believe her version that Charles was a threat to her, so I'm not surprised that she managed to fool the police at first by playing the victim. A smoking gun is needed and I hope there is enough in electronic communications among the involved parties to prove conspiracy. The frustrating part is that analyses take a long time.

I can say that over here in Tomball TX, that one crime would have been thoroughly investigated. And most any other city in America. I've never seen such incompetent officer work in my life. Expert response would have saved many more lives and helped the families. All in my opinion.

 

[Kimmer]

I just had a thought, lets say for argument sake that CV did try and take a bat to AC, one if you are really trying to harm someone are you just going to stand in the living room while someone else go to the bedroom to retrieve a gun? And let's say that CV did just stand in the living room, I am sure when he say AC walking ward him he would have raised to bat above his head in order to protect himself from AC now we have 3 shots that hit CV was there blood on the bat? Shooting someone 3 times is not a clean killing. I have not seen and blowback or spatter while LE is searching the home, I want to know if there is blood on that bat, I don't see someone holding a Bat getting shot three times and no blood on the bat.

 

[Teche]

Something still irks me about MP, i truly believe she knows the most about all of this next to chad and lori, more than MG.

I still think the the document found on IP's computer is a gold mine of evidence.


Here's just a few quotes from that document...

Melanine had been told by chad and lori that their children had been possessed and become zombies, She shared concerns that she's been told Brandon needed to die and that may indicate that jj and tyle needed to die also.

She stated that brandon had become possessed by a demon.

She was concerned the AL may have had to "take care" of the kids.

Melanine shared that she feard for the lives of two of her children.

if shooting at brandon was indeed because he was no longer brandon and needed to die as part of the lords plan.

Also the amount of info on zombies and other dark teachings in the document and they way he has it all detailed with bullet points and descriptors etc tells me that's not just stuff he recalled hearing from MP off the top of his head, It was far far far too detailed and specific. MP must have shared documents with him about chads teachings that she had, it is not possible for ian to have remembered all of those specific details of the top of his head. Where are those documents now? my guess is destroyed, all i know is MP knows WAY more about all of this, And based on her husband being shot at and her expressing fears for her own children i believe she may even be fully involved in the conspiracy herself.

Original source.
READ: Exhibit from Brandon Boudreaux's court filing | East Idaho News

Who is AL?

 

[Monger]

Could Lori Vallow Daybell be working on a plea deal?

Article with opinion as to whether LV could be working a plea deal. IMO doubtful unless they don't have enough solid evidence against her.

 

[Love Never Fails]

But yesterday post after post was about MG. She isn't the one that killed them, but she was the one being flailed for someone else's crimes. The spotlight, as you said, needs to be on the children, the victims, and the perpetrators. JMO

I agree and thank you.

We are all passionate about this case.
And opinionated.

 

[Ohmeohmy]

https://twitter.com/GarnaMejiaKSL/status/1291769841473314816
#ChadDaybell's arraignment will be held in Fremont County on Aug. 21 at 9 a.m. w/ District Court Judge Stephen W. Boyce. #LoriVallow's arraignment date is pending. She waived her preliminary hearing yesterday.
@KSL5TV

 

[wenwe4]

But let me ask WS Wise Wuns a question?? COULD the prosecution have included any conspiracy about Charles as a change to the prelim? That might have been so sweet.

SBM I certainly do not acclaim to be a "WS Wise Wun" but I think Idaho is limited to crimes in that state to charge LVD. CV's death occurred in AZ. There may be a case for the FBI to get involved with the conspiracy charges as they appear to span across state lines.

 

[wnk]

One thing I hadn't connected until this morning, but which is now definitely bugging me:

Dec 8 - LV & MG have a phone conversation in which LV learns that AxC has been saying more than he ought to about what's happened to JJ.

Dec 12 - (FOUR days later) AxC is found dead.