Canada - Christine Jessop, 9, Queensville, Ont, 3 Oct 1984 *killer identified* #3

[deugirtni]

Life After a Nervous Breakdown – Bridges to Recovery

HH may still be recovering.

Where did the information about a nervous breakdown come about?

WARMINGTON: Don't forget slain Christine Jessop is the story | Toronto Sun

According to this article, the rumour of a nervous breakdown did not come from a health care provider. It would take some time to determine what she was experiencing when she was delivered the news.

Yes, I can only imagine what that woman must have experienced when told the news. Whatever it was was enough for police to believe she needed to be taken to hospital. (And she would have had to agree to it if she was lucid enough to do so.) The news was apparently stated to media by KJ, as informed by police. I was merely responding to where that info had come from.

 

[MistyWaters]

I recalled police in the recent Nova Scotia murders saying they would still investigate the case just as if the killer was still alive.. I don't see why this case would be different. In both cases, they know for sure who the killer was and that both are dead and will never face trial. This has been a very important Canadian case all around with many out-reaching implications and considerations. To me, it would just be wrong to not bother pursuing an investigation into what exactly happened. Although the details of CJ's murder are gruesome, they are the facts. That poor girl actually endured everything that happened to her before (and after) her death, the least we can do is to not let it be forgotten and swept away just because we now know who her killer was. There seem to still be many unanswered questions in this well known case with much public interest. jmo.

“Though the gunman will never stand trial, we have a duty to complete this investigation by the same standards that we would have if he were standing trial,” Supt. Campbell said. “There are many more interviews to come, and we expect that witness list to grow.”
Nova Scotia RCMP identify 435 witnesses as investigation into mass shooting continues

True but my point was CH was never identified as a suspect so tracking his movements 36 years later after the fact becomes virtually impossible. There was no cellphones or CCTV back then and it’s highly unlikely his employer retained timesheets, if they even required employees to complete, nor would gas station or banking records still be held. At the time he took his own life there’s no indication he confessed to Christine’s murder. So his motive and the sequence of events can at best only be guesswork.

That’s much difference than the NS shooter who was killed by LE immediately after his murder spree. One reason is the onus is on LE to prove they shot the man who indeed was the spree killer, much like he’d have been found guilty in a trial.

 

[Arnie M]

I wonder if he just drove around in the country until he found an out-of-the-way trail. If we are to believe the screams that were heard later in the evening by those two people in the neighbouring homes, they didn’t hear the screams and cries for help until after they went to bed (10pm? 11pm? — I can’t recall exact time). What happened between 4 pm and 10 or 11 pm? I wonder if he made more than one stop to assault CJ before finally finding that place in the end.

Good point ... and just to add to that , I am thinking Christine went with him willingly at first .... she knew him from family interactions , maybe he promised to take her to see her dad or something ... things a kid would tend to believe.

But by 10 pm (or whatever) ... on a dark country road .... she would know something was amiss and create a fuss ... so he decided to do his ugly deed which caused the screams .... and like you said , it maybe just happen to be at or near the location where she was found. I like your logic.

 

[Arnie M]

According to this article, the rumour of a nervous breakdown did not come from a health care provider. It would take some time to determine what she was experiencing when she was delivered the news.

I am glad you mentioned that.

Any person would be shocked or have a temporary nervous breakdown if they were told their former spouse was a brutal child killer.

 

[MistyWaters]

I am glad you mentioned that.

Any person would be shocked or have a temporary nervous breakdown if they were told their former spouse was a brutal child killer.

Plus we don’t know anything about the ex. Possibly she had a current health condition and/or suffered from anxiety. Rather than LE just surprising her with the shocking news and driving away, especially if she was alone, it’d be prudent for them to also ensure she received watchful medical attention for the sake of her own well-being.

It’s been reported the Hoover family has been cooperative with LE so I really doubt the speculation is true that she was intentionally evading questioning. Often times stranger judgement tends to be unduly harsh.

Calvin Hoover: Tips flood in from public about Christine Jessop’s cold-case killer
“Smith has spoken to Hoover’s former wife, Heather, and their sons.

“They’ve been as cooperative as they possibly could be. They’re offering us anything that we need from them. They’re shocked, but they’re helping us in any way they can,” he said....”

 

[Forest_Wood]

I recalled police in the recent Nova Scotia murders saying they would still investigate the case just as if the killer was still alive.. I don't see why this case would be different. In both cases, they know for sure who the killer was and that both are dead and will never face trial. This has been a very important Canadian case all around with many out-reaching implications and considerations. To me, it would just be wrong to not bother pursuing an investigation into what exactly happened. Although the details of CJ's murder are gruesome, they are the facts. That poor girl actually endured everything that happened to her before (and after) her death, the least we can do is to not let it be forgotten and swept away just because we now know who her killer was. There seem to still be many unanswered questions in this well known case with much public interest. jmo.

“Though the gunman will never stand trial, we have a duty to complete this investigation by the same standards that we would have if he were standing trial,” Supt. Campbell said. “There are many more interviews to come, and we expect that witness list to grow.”
Nova Scotia RCMP identify 435 witnesses as investigation into mass shooting continues

I just watched the original news conference at https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/christine-jessop-news-conference-1.5763673 The chief states there's an active investigation taking place surrounding Calvin Hoover and the collection of information from tips about his life from 1984-2015. He said, “there’s still much work to be done”. After being asked if there will be a report, Chief Ramer states that there won’t be a report of those details to the public unless they develop more information from those tips, at which point they’ll inform the public. This is at about 18:35 of the 23 minute video. On another video, which I cannot find right now, the TPS said the investigation was “just beginning” into CH.

 

[Forest_Wood]

I am glad you mentioned that.

Any person would be shocked or have a temporary nervous breakdown if they were told their former spouse was a brutal child killer.

Yes, they absolutely would be shocked and possibly have had an anxiety or panic attack at that horrible news! The term nervous breakdown is not used anymore by the medical field, so my point was that her condition could not have been diagnosed without her being under the care of a health care provider.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Plus we don’t know anything about the ex. Possibly she had a current health condition and/or suffered from anxiety. Rather than LE just surprising her with the shocking news and driving away, especially if she was alone, it’d be prudent for them to also ensure she received watchful medical attention for the sake of her own well-being.

It’s been reported the Hoover family has been cooperative with LE so I really doubt the speculation is true that she was intentionally evading questioning. Often times stranger judgement tends to be unduly harsh.

Good point about LE staying with her and maybe accompanying her to the hospital. I’m sure they would have done that? Who has speculated that she evaded questions?

 

[MistyWaters]

Good point about LE staying with her and maybe accompanying her to the hospital. I’m sure they would have done that? Who has speculated that she evaded questions?

I recall reading the speculation on this thread.

 

[MistyWaters]

I just watched the original news conference at https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/christine-jessop-news-conference-1.5763673 The chief states there's an active investigation taking place surrounding Calvin Hoover and the collection of information from tips about his life from 1984-2015. He said, “there’s still much work to be done”. After being asked if there will be a report, Chief Ramer states that there won’t be a report of those details to the public unless they develop more information from those tips, at which point they’ll inform the public. This is at about 18:35 of the 23 minute video. On another video, which I cannot find right now, the TPS said the investigation was “just beginning” into CH.

I’d be shocked if the sexual assault and murder of Christine was a single isolated incident. The guy was clearly a violent pedophile who thought nothing of killing his young, innocent victims if necessary to cover up his evil deeds. Unfortunately if DNA was not retained from other decades old unsolved cases or other wrongful convictions it may be difficult to connect to CH.

Does anyone recall a reason stated for the police visit shortly before CH’s suicide in 2015? I wonder if by chance he’d been reported for SA of a minor, perhaps even by an adult who decided to finally speak out.

 

[Tadpole12]

I’d be shocked if the sexual assault and murder of Christine was a single isolated incident. The guy was clearly a violent pedophile who thought nothing of killing his young, innocent victims if necessary to cover up his evil deeds. Unfortunately if DNA was not retained from other decades old unsolved cases or other wrongful convictions it may be difficult to connect to CH.

Does anyone recall a reason stated for the police visit shortly before CH’s suicide in 2015? I wonder if by chance he’d been reported for SA of a minor, perhaps even by an adult who decided to finally speak out.

Canada - Christine Jessop, 9, Queensville, Ont, 3 Oct 1984 *killer identified* #3

Fraud squad?
Most of the news articles I read about fraud in Port Hope dealt with telephone scams.

But how do you sell/buy a house for $2.
Maybe this issue was investigated,
the home being sold for far less than accessed taxation value?

 

[Arnie M]

Canada - Christine Jessop, 9, Queensville, Ont, 3 Oct 1984 *killer identified* #3

Fraud squad?
Most of the news articles I read about fraud in Port Hope dealt with telephone scams.

But how do you sell/buy a house for $2.
Maybe this issue was investigated,
the home being sold for far less than accessed taxation value?

.
It is not unusual to sell property for $2 ... (actually it is usually for $1)
The actual property value is not relevant.
Because it is usually done between family members who are "giving" a property to a son or daughter etc.

Legally there is a way to "gift" a home or property , but for the sake of streamlining the real estate transfer they pass a dollar of "legal tender" across the desk in a lawyers office which makes it a "sale" (instead of a gift).

The Land Titles Office could care less if a property sells for one dollar or a million dollars.

I expect that is how the CH house was transferred to the son.

 

[jessica-]

I think the wife knows a lot more

 

[Forest_Wood]

I’d be shocked if the sexual assault and murder of Christine was a single isolated incident. The guy was clearly a violent pedophile who thought nothing of killing his young, innocent victims if necessary to cover up his evil deeds. Unfortunately if DNA was not retained from other decades old unsolved cases or other wrongful convictions it may be difficult to connect to CH.

Does anyone recall a reason stated for the police visit shortly before CH’s suicide in 2015? I wonder if by chance he’d been reported for SA of a minor, perhaps even by an adult who decided to finally speak out.

Interesting there’s no known DNA or other evidence like a hair linked to other cases. A news article mentioned the visit by LE to CH in 2015 may have been related to a fraud incident although I don’t know if that’s accurate.

 

[Forest_Wood]

.
It is not unusual to sell property for $2 ... (actually it is usually for $1)
The actual property value is not relevant.
Because it is usually done between family members who are "giving" a property to a son or daughter etc.

Legally there is a way to "gift" a home or property , but for the sake of streamlining the real estate transfer they pass a dollar of "legal tender" across the desk in a lawyers office which makes it a "sale" (instead of a gift).

The Land Titles Office could care less if a property sells for one dollar or a million dollars.

I expect that is how the CH house was transferred to the son.

Oh, that’s very interesting! I didn’t know you could sell your home for a toonie! Since CH was already dead by the time of the house transfer, I imagine he must have left the house to the son in his will? Otherwise, how would it have been determined that the one son got to have the house as a gift and the other son got no part of the sale proceeds?

 

[Forest_Wood]

I think the wife knows a lot more

Which wife? I think details will arise over time and not all at once. Memories will likely come back gradually about CH’s behaviours. Suddenly, they’ll be triggered with a memory about something that took place, even if they can’t recall the date or time, and then that will become part of the putting the puzzle together for his whereabouts. For instance, maybe he was known to go hunting during the month of October back in the day, so maybe he wasn’t even expected home that night or for the whole week due to a hunting trip.

 

[Forest_Wood]

If CH was with Christine from 4pm to 10 or 11pm, and still had to drive home to Etobicoke, at what time did he finally get there? What was his excuse to the wife?

I wonder if he was even expected home that night? It’s hunting season in October and maybe he was leaving for a hunting trip or something else. But if he was considered a person who had contact with CJ, you’d think his whereabouts would have been investigated by LE.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Yes, I can only imagine what that woman must have experienced when told the news. Whatever it was was enough for police to believe she needed to be taken to hospital. (And she would have had to agree to it if she was lucid enough to do so.) The news was apparently stated to media by KJ, as informed by police. I was merely responding to where that info had come from.

It must have been awful for her indeed! Good point that she would have had to agree to go to the hospital and therefore an ambulance was likely called? The police and other professionals are not permitted to disclose a person’s medical information due to a their right to privacy.

 

[deugirtni]

It must have been awful for her indeed! Good point that she would have had to agree to go to the hospital and therefore an ambulance was likely called? The police and other professionals are not permitted to disclose a person’s medical information due to a their right to privacy.

Where do you suppose KJ would have obtained that info, or are you thinking he made it up and attributed it to LE? You're right tho, I haven't heard that term used in years and it's not a term used by medical professionals. (Was it ever? Im not sure. I had always wondered what that meant!) OTOH, it's possible an officer may have told JJ what happened when they told HH the news of her exhusband and the words changed through the various iterations of retelling.

 

[MistyWaters]

Oh, that’s very interesting! I didn’t know you could sell your home for a toonie! Since CH was already dead by the time of the house transfer, I imagine he must have left the house to the son in his will? Otherwise, how would it have been determined that the one son got to have the house as a gift and the other son got no part of the sale proceeds?

It’s unusual for Will instructions to assign title of a home to be split between two adult sons, especially if they’re adults already living independently from one another. Often a Will states a 50/50 split of an entire estate so if the home is not sold outright and the proceeds split, then the son who doesn’t want to live in it pays the one who does 1/2 the accessed value either from other estate assets or from his own resources. This all occurs prior to title transfer from the estate of the deceased to the son who’s taking over ownership. Without access to the estate file, it’s impossible to conclude one son was left out in the cold.

JMO