Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #14

[MistyWaters]

My thinking on it, given this one line .....”in fairness to friends and family of Barry and Honey Sherman”.....

The earlier release by 3 separate TPS reps regarding a person of interest makes it appear the investigation is strongly focused and an arrest may be imminent.

Of course reporters are all anxious to get the scoop on what the family and friends have to say about a possible upcoming arrest so they’re suddenly deluged by reporters hounding them all for comments including who they think this person might be. As a result, family and friends aren’t impressed by the media attention TPS is needlessly causing them. So by Price stepping in later and mentioning several POI’s, he’s all but deflating the possibility the case is close to being solved.

Whether it is or isn’t is anyone’s guess...

JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

but wait- there are MANY POI’s according to the ever cryptic Det Price

The term “person of interest” ......I’m reminded of a comment made by a detective involved in the Delphi case, something like this - “Until somebody is arrested, we’re interested in every person we speak with!”

 

[Satchie]

Satchie, both the police release and the KD article say that numerous persons of interest have been, and continue to be (present tense) investigated in this case. It is clear to me that they stated that they currently have numerous persons of interest. I don’t see how KD has in any way twisted these words in his article. Can you help me understand what you are referring to?

The meaning is, IMO, too (deliberately) ambiguous to draw that conclusion.

IMO if Det Price had intended to say "We have numerous persons of interest", that is exactly what he would have said. It's much simpler than the round about statement he actually made.

Why did he make that round about statement? IMO Det Price is saying "yes we've told you we have a person of interest, but don't jump to conclusions, we've had lots of POIs, some of them we may need to go back and question again, that's what a police investigation actually is.

Whether this particular person, or any other person, or several other persons, are actual or potential suspects, we are never going to share that with the public or with the family and friends".

In addition, I imagine him saying "it's not just a matter of posting a $10 million dollar reward and expecting that, presto, the case will be solved. It's bloody hard work" But that would be rude, so he's saying it politely and indirectly.

 

[deugirtni]

Is there a possibility he could have made this 'clarification' to cover the butts of TPS in the event of a future criminal trial? ie say there is a trial in future and said accused's lawyer is going off about how TPS focused only on one person (their client), when they should've pursued many. That type of thing?

 

[deugirtni]

I can't really imagine that not one, but THREE TPS representatives all said the same thing, that they had identified a POI but not arrested, without the express permission of the detective in charge of this case. Then.. how many hours later did the 'clarification' come? Is it possible that in that timeframe, TPS's legal gave advice to turn it around?

 

[Satchie]

Is there a possibility he could have made this 'clarification' to cover the butts of TPS in the event of a future criminal trial? ie say there is a trial in future and said accused's lawyer is going off about how TPS focused only on one person (their client), when they should've pursued many. That type of thing?

I agree, quite possibly the prosecution service raised this flag with TPS.

 

[ldlager]

The meaning is, IMO, too (deliberately) ambiguous to draw that conclusion.

IMO if Det Price had intended to say "We have numerous persons of interest", that is exactly what he would have said. It's much simpler than the round about statement he actually made.

Why did he make that round about statement? IMO Det Price is saying "yes we've told you we have a person of interest, but don't jump to conclusions, we've had lots of POIs, some of them we may need to go back and question again, that's what a police investigation actually is.

Whether this particular person, or any other person, or several other persons, are actual or potential suspects, we are never going to share that with the public or with the family and friends".

In addition, I imagine him saying "it's not just a matter of posting a $10 million dollar reward and expecting that, presto, the case will be solved. It's bloody hard work" But that would be rude, so he's saying it politely and indirectly.

thanks for your viewpoint.
It seems that det. Price speaks in riddles, from the first day of the investigation until now. he seemingly says one thing, but actually means another. My greatest fear is that he doesn’t understand what the heck he is actually saying.

 

[clearskies1]

I agree, quite possibly the prosecution service raised this flag with TPS.

Agree. It seemed like a CYA clarification to me.

 

[ldlager]

I can't really imagine that not one, but THREE TPS representatives all said the same thing, that they had identified a POI but not arrested, without the express permission of the detective in charge of this case. Then.. how many hours later did the 'clarification' come? Is it possible that in that timeframe, TPS's legal gave advice to turn it around?

det price is probably not calling the shots here. As posted earlier, someone else may in fact be pulling the strings. Just like early on when mayor Tory paid a visit to the chief of police to tell him the family didn’t agree with the way tps was handling the case.

 

[Number8]

Is there a possibility he could have made this 'clarification' to cover the butts of TPS in the event of a future criminal trial? ie say there is a trial in future and said accused's lawyer is going off about how TPS focused only on one person (their client), when they should've pursued many. That type of thing?

This is very possible, I know that TPS is very cautious about this. I was a juror in a murder trial and the lead detective was put on the stand and grilled about whether they had tunnel vision. I think they are very aware of the aesthetics of that (especially in high profile cases).

However I think it’s far more likely that they are trying to keep things under wraps as not to raise the suspicions of any POI. They have even SAID this (““It could compromise the investigation if the perpetrator knew they were identified. It could precipitate flight, they could take steps to get rid of evidence, frustrate our investigation” - Homicide detectives have a ‘person of interest’ in the Barry and Honey Sherman murder investigation). They are muddying the waters so they have time to finish getting their ducks in a row IMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

The Shermans were murdered almost 3 years ago.

How I think of tunnel vision is an arrest is made quite early on without looking at any other possible suspects. But by the 3 year mark, it’d finally be progress if TPS had drawn down the list of possibilities to only one POI so it wouldn’t seem to me it’s likely Price is concerned about allegations of tunnel vision.

“Many” at this point in time?.... that’d not be so good in terms of this case ever getting solved IMO.

 

[RHR]

TPS have never disclosed any evidence. If you have a link to the contrary, please share it.

SUSAN GOMES confirmed on January 26th 2018 that the Honey and Barry Sherman were murdered. They were able to have access to Barry's phone etc shortly before that date. If they had found a suicide note or any searches for ways to commit suicide I don't think they would had that press conference.

 

[RHR]

I wonder who bought those sculptures? Did it cause any arguments

They were a gift.

 

[RHR]

I think they might have been destroyed when the home was demolished.

They were destroyed with the house.

 

[RHR]

Yes, that is possible, but I tend to think that two or more professional contract killers could have carried out these murders very quickly and efficiently rendering them unconscious, then killing them with continued neck compression, hanging them, and staging the scene to look like a murder suicide, so that LE's investigation would be limited, and the case closed quickly. If they were professionals, there was some sloppiness -- leaving Barry's papers and gloves in the back basement hall, where they likely attacked him, and leaving Honey's cell phone on the floor of the upstairs bathroom. The housekeeper picked it up and put it on a bathroom counter, before she knew they were dead, and similarly, the real estate agent showing the house picked up Barry's gloves and papers from the floor, putting them on a wall ledge, near where they were found, thinking Barry had just dropped them. It is possible that the hired killers had military backgrounds, and experience in killing in such a manner, but little or no experience with cleaning up a crime scene, and staging it. IMO

 

[RHR]

If they were murdered by contract killers then they were not very professional or organized.
The belt around Barry's neck was from around his waste. The one around Honey's neck was last seen by the trainer in the master bedroom on the 13th.
Why would a contract killer agree to such a long drawn out process?
Why not shoot them and get out of there?
They spent hours at the scene of a crime.
Makes no sense that it was professional.

 

[Satchie]

thanks for your viewpoint.
It seems that det. Price speaks in riddles, from the first day of the investigation until now. he seemingly says one thing, but actually means another. My greatest fear is that he doesn’t understand what the heck he is actually saying.

When you play poker, do you tell your opponent clearly and precisely what is in your hand?

The perp(s) read the news too.

 

[dotr]

The Shermans were murdered almost 3 years ago.

How I think of tunnel vision is an arrest is made quite early on without looking at any other possible suspects. But by the 3 year mark, it’d finally be progress if TPS had drawn down the list of possibilities to only one POI so it wouldn’t seem to me it’s likely Price is concerned about allegations of tunnel vision.

“Many” at this point in time?.... that’d not be so good in terms of this case ever getting solved IMO.

Considering that the family has voiced concerns about safety, maybe the pandemic social distancing rules might actually be helpful to them at this point.
Hanukkah is fast approaching (Dec 10) and one might want to adjust invitations and seating arrangements accordingly, iykwim.
speculation, imo.

 

[MistyWaters]

When you play poker, do you tell your opponent clearly and precisely what is in your hand?

The perp(s) read the news too.

Very true.

Providing an investigative update on an unsolved crime via the media is the same as volunteering that information to the murderer. I’ve never followed any other case in Canada where we know much of anything in advance to an arrest and trial so this one isn’t any different.

 

[branmuffin]

If they were murdered by contract killers then they were not very professional or organized.
The belt around Barry's neck was from around his waste. The one around Honey's neck was last seen by the trainer in the master bedroom on the 13th.
Why would a contract killer agree to such a long drawn out process?
Why not shoot them and get out of there?
They spent hours at the scene of a crime.
Makes no sense that it was professional.

Maybe the belt around Honey's neck was her belt. Maybe it mattered that the belts belonged to each victim. Kind of a metaphorical 'hoisted by their own petard' kind of thing.

It could suggest the murders are personal but it could also be based on specific instructions given to hired killers. Which again, makes it personal. That could occur if someone close to the Shermans were upset by a plan to cut off a lifeline of monetary support through the changing of a will. You cut off my oxygen, I cut off yours.