GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former LEO and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020 *Arrests* #3

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SAVANNAH, Ga. (AP) — A Georgia judge denied bond Friday for the father and son charged with murder in the slaying of Ahmaud Arbery, saying he’s concerned the white men took the law into their own hands and endangered neighbors when they pursued and shot the Black man on a residential street.
[snip]
“You can interpret the video in a number of different ways,” Walmsley said Friday from the courthouse in Brunswick as the hearing was streamed live online. “But the video tells me there’s a significant risk and danger to the community.”

The judge also agreed with prosecutors that Gregory McMichael not only appeared “willing to place the law in his own hands” by chasing Arbery without first calling 911, but also seemed to try to influence investigators who arrived after the shooting.
[snip]
“Possibly it’s one of the reasons this case took so long to get where it is right now,” Walmsley said, apparently referring to the two-month delay between the shooting and the McMichaels’ arrests.

Bond denied for father, son charged in Ahmaud Arbery slaying

Rightly so - MOO
 
 
sds71 said:
“When I see him, I knew, hate that people were getting broken into out here, you know. So, I hollered at them and said, ‘Y’all got him?’

Because I pulled out of my driveway, was going to try to block him. But he was going all around. I made a few moves at him, you know. And he didn’t stop.”
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I think these two components show the depth of Bryan's participation and support the murder charges against him.

Bryan's defense may well hinge on trying to cast Bryan as an impulsive participant who tokenly joined the chase on a spontaneous decision, or better yet- tokenly joined the chase after being directed to do so by a retired police officer.

But....

In the exchange above, Bryan states that he made several attempts to corner the victim- not just one. Bryan also relates that he joined the chase on his own volition. He was not asked or directed to do so by say, McMichael senior.

Likewise, Bryan strongly implies that he is aware of the background for the chase (references purported break ins) and also strongly implies that he knew there would be an attempt to detain the victim (Y"all got him?).

All of this indicates prior coordination with the McMichaels and should sink any attempt to portray him as an impulsive participant who made a token effort chase down the victim.
 
Here's a link to the full raw body cam video of the officer who questioned GM at the scene. It's about 39 minutes long. Spoiler alert: GM lied to LE about the sequence of events on Holmes & gave inconsistent and/or conflicting explanations about several key points.

(Example, explaining why he (literally) had AA's blood on his hands, first he tells LE that he had turned AA over, corrects himself, no, had reached under AA for his hand/arm to check for a pulse. Even though one hand/arm *wasn't* under AA's body, and even though after finding a pulse he walks away from AA rather than doing anything to assist him.

Then GM adds that he didn't find anything in AA's hand. Next version a few minutes later, he tells LE he reached under AA's (still alive) body to see if AA had a gun, because he and Travis had reason to believe AA did.

 
(At around 18:00). GM tells LE that Travis exited the truck, shotgun in hand, when they first caught up with AA on Burford, and that he too got out of the truck then.

So, AA's 4 minute long run for his life began with having at least one gun, a shotgun, being pointed at him, and with 3 men using 2 trucks with great determination to force him to a stop and a confrontation.
 
sds71 said:
The video shows police arriving on the scene and checking on Arbery(blurred) before speaking with the three men now charged in his death.
***Warning: Some of this video is disturbing.

"Y'all got him?" New police body camera footage shows men admitting to chasing Ahmaud Arbery | firstcoastnews.com
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I noted that they included in that link the jibberish coded message. Was that really a coded message or a red herring of true jibberish just to mess with the prosecution etc. (Which if indeed is jibberish, shows his *attitude* MOO towards messing with others just to control/for the "f" of it?)

ETA: Thank you @Hope4More for sharing the 38:49 complete video.
 
Finished watching the video link above.

Shades of another case years back, y'all here know/I assume which I'm speaking of. SMDH. SMDH.

This is why vigilantes that don't rely on trained LE to call and investigate are soo soo dangerous MOO.

Again, in my younger years AND as an adult I would venture into homes being built by myself, with friends, with friends and children... as did many others on camera. It was something I loved to do to follow how they were built, and what the floorplans were like out of curiosity.
 
This is the first of the police videos chronologically. It's the body cam of the LE who was already in the neighborhood when AA was shot, responding to the 1st 911 call placed at 1:08pm.

He was on Santilla, a few yards away from Holmes, when he heard the gun shots. He turned into Holmes; GM & TM were still in the middle of the road near AA, who is still alive. Neither MM is helping AA. Neither does the just arrived LE, who simply comments that AA is near death.

TM is clearly upset. GM is not. GM kept telling TM- you had no choice, you had no choice.

One question answered. GM found out about WRB's videotape at the scene, within these first minutes, when he walked back to his truck after LE arrived; WRB was still in or right near his truck, and called out to GM.

FWIW: On the WRB bodycam video, WRB told LE that he began taping the chase because he thought (AA) "was going to get away."

 
Cryptic said:
I think these two components show the depth of Bryan's participation and support the murder charges against him.

Bryan's defense may well hinge on trying to cast Bryan as an impulsive participant who tokenly joined the chase on a spontaneous decision, or better yet- tokenly joined the chase after being directed to do so by a retired police officer.

But....

In the exchange above, Bryan states that he made several attempts to corner the victim- not just one. Bryan also relates that he joined the chase on his own volition. He was not asked or directed to do so by say, McMichael senior.

Likewise, Bryan strongly implies that he is aware of the background for the chase (references purported break ins) and also strongly implies that he knew there would be an attempt to detain the victim (Y"all got him?).

All of this indicates prior coordination with the McMichaels and should sink any attempt to portray him as an impulsive participant who made a token effort chase down the victim.
Click to expand...

After watching all the body cam videos and adding in what's there with what was already known:

1. I don't see any evidence of, or think that there was any coordination between the MM's and WRB prior to the day of the murder. And I don't think that helps WRB *at all.*

2. I'm not convinced WRB even thought of English's videos or supposed neighborhood break-ins when he saw AA running towards his house, being chased by the MM's.

Yes, he said something about break-ins to LE at the scene, but by the time LE spoke to him, WRB had overheard GM talking to LE a few yards away, going on and on about break-ins. I think what likely reveals WRB's state of mind more accurately is his also telling LE that he saw a "colored black man" running and knew "he couldn't have been up to any good."

3. I'm not sure I'd read anything more into than what's readily apparent about WRB yelling "y'all got him?" The MMs were chasing a black guy down, and WRB wanted to join in.

I'm most interested in knowing whether or not either of the MMs replied. GM exited the truck within WRB's eyesight on Burford, TM may have gotten out and pulled out his shotgun at the same time.

If either of the MMs replied, then the 3 coordinated their assault on AA. If neither did, then WRB hunted down AA in his truck for several minutes unilaterally, as in, all on his own and for his own reasons, as the MMs had driven off Burford and were circling around to intercept AA, presumably on another road.

WRB's hunting of AA by truck was far more aggressive than was the MM's. WRB actually hit AA with his truck at least once, which he freely told LE at the scene; it was WRB who blocked AA from escaping to safety down Santilla and out of the neighborhood, and it was WRB who must have turned around multiple times on Holmes to block AA, and to force him into position between his truck and the MM's.

What's mind boggling is that although WRB nonchalantly told LE that he'd hunted AA down and hit him with his truck, and showed LE the murder video he'd taped on his cellphone, how LE described him orally at the scene and in their report was not even as a participant in the events, but as a "cooperative witness."
 
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Perhaps relevant at GM's trial on the subject of state of mind and "justification." (from the bodycams)

A. GM can be heard in the background twice, telling two different people (first a neighbor who is there at the scene, then on the phone to his wife) that when he saw AA running towards him as he was out in his front yard, he had "no idea where he (AA) was running from."

In other words, GM didn't claim to LE to have *any* knowledge of *any* crime, misdemeanor or felony, committed by AA that day that caused him or TM to give chase.

B. On the night of Feb 11, TM thought he saw the E video "burglar" enter E's site. He ran home to get his father. Both armed themselves, walked back to E's house, met up with 2 others, including an armed Perez, and began searching E's property, all BEFORE TM called 911.

On the day AA was murdered it was GM who thought he saw E's trespasser, and GM who ran into the house to grab a gun. And to tell his son TM to get his gun and to get going.

GM told LE at the scene that he didn't call anyone because he didn't have his phone. (Because it only occurred to him to grab his gun, not his phone).

He said that TM did have his phone with him but that TM "was busy driving."

1. GM was in the front seat with TM as they drove onto Burford, saw AA, and first tried to block him. No call to 911.

2. GM and TM both jumped out of the truck on Burford to confront AA, TM with shotgun in hand. AA eluded them by running in the opposite direction. The MMs watched as WRB tried to block AA. No call to 911.

3. GM told LE he didn't want to get back into the front seat because he didn't want to sit on top of his grandson's car seat again, and there was no time to move it. No call to 911.

4. Did TM give his phone to GM then? If he did, then GM had it for several minutes, the time it took to get off Burford then circle around to get on Holmes and go almost all the way down it back to Satilla. Without calling 911.

5. The only other time TM could have given GM his phone, if he hadn't already, was when he got out of the truck on Holmes, shotgun again in hand, truck parked in the middle of the street, waiting for AA to come into view, knowing AA would be trapped between their truck and WRB's.

Not until then does GM call 911.

C. While talking to LE on scene, neither GM or TM accuse "the black guy" they've seen before on video of actually *stealing* anything from anyone in the neighborhood. Both mention break-ins. TM isn't more specific.

GM is all over the place about the "black guy." That he's been seen in the neighborhood every 3 or 4 days; that he's been caught on video breaking in a bunch of places; that's he's been caught on video "numerous" times breaking in to E's site; that he's been caught on video "2-3 times" breaking into E's site. But not in any of those various versions does GM say he has any knowledge of "the black guy" committing any crime, including stealing, while on E's property, or anywhere else.
 
Hope4More said:
1. I don't see any evidence of, or think that there was any coordination between the MM's and WRB prior to the day of the murder. And I don't think that helps WRB *at all.*

WRB's hunting of AA by truck was far more aggressive than was the MM's....
Click to expand...

Though I agree with you that the video evidence of prior coordination, is indirect, the police have evidently found evidence of direct coordination in phone texts and other social media conversations.

As for the need to have evidence of prior coordination, I think it is very important as WRB is being charged with murder. The prosecution appears to be citing that WRB was "Party to" the murder.

But..... the prosecution may have some challenges to using the "Party to" concept in this case and thus need good evidence of coordination:

- Unlike say, an inherently illegal act such as robbing a gas station in which the clerk is murdered, being "Party to" hypervigilance for a specific trespasser is not illegal. Likewise, attempting a citizens arrest for a felony is not illegal in Georgia (WRB will probably claim he thought a home had been burglarized).

- Subjectively, I think juries are no longer supportive of "Party to" type charges as they used to be. Thus, a need for more direct evidence.

The legal actions described above seem to give WRB some quick defenses:

- "OK, so what I am not PC- and I joined a hyper vigilant effort for a certain trespasser (Yawn).

- Alright, I got a little uhmm... "persistant" when I assisted in a good faith citizens arrest- I was assisting a retired police officer after all. But, I broke it off when things did not look right. I did not shoot anybody. In fact, I later cooperated".

In the end, I think using "Party to" murder charges is based on showing that WRB knew that a certain trespasser would be chased down- even if he had not committed a felony and that he knew the chase would could well involve weapons.

Racist feelings are not needed per se, but they help the prosecution prove criminal intent of the first two points.
 
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Cryptic said:
Though I agree with you that the video evidence of prior coordination, is indirect, the police have evidently found evidence of direct coordination in phone texts and other social media conversations.

As for the need to have evidence of prior coordination, I think it is very important as WRB is being charged with murder. The prosecution appears to be citing that WRB was "Party to" the murder.

But..... the prosecution may have some challenges to using the "Party to" concept in this case and thus need good evidence of coordination:

- Unlike say, an inherently illegal act such as robbing a gas station in which the clerk is murdered, being "Party to" hypervigilance for a specific trespasser is not illegal. Likewise, attempting a citizens arrest for a felony is not illegal in Georgia (WRB will probably claim he thought a home had been burglarized).

- Subjectively, I think juries are no longer supportive of "Party to" type charges as they used to be. Thus, a need for more direct evidence.

The legal actions described above seem to give WRB some quick defenses:

- "OK, so what I am not PC- and I joined a hyper vigilant effort for a certain trespasser (Yawn).

- Alright, I got a little uhmm... "persistant" when I assisted in a good faith citizens arrest- I was assisting a retired police officer after all. But, I broke it off when things did not look right. I did not shoot anybody. In fact, I later cooperated".

In the end, I think using "Party to" murder charges is based on showing that WRB knew that a certain trespasser would be chased down- even if he had not committed a felony and that he knew the chase would could well involve weapons.

Racist feelings are not needed per se, but they help the prosecution prove criminal intent of the first two points.
Click to expand...

1. WRB is charged with false imprisonment (using his truck to try to trap AA; a felony) and with felony murder (the State doesn't need to prove intent or coordination or conspiracy; the charge automatically applied because AA died during the commission of a felony- the false imprisonment).

2. The only evidence produced in public so far about communication between GM and WRB related to phone calls between the two *after* the murder. Several calls were clearly about GM asking WRB for the videotape. One, a jailhouse call, was cited during the prelim hearing; GM called WRB an "ally" during the call.

I don't think it's even been stated yet that WRB was a member of the neighborhood FB group on which E's videos were posted and neighbors passed along "break in" alerts and info, much less whether or not he posted or "chatted" with the MM's there.

3. I'm a big believer in the jury system and that juries get it right most of the time. I also believe, though, that it's not uncommon for juries to substitute their common sense for the literal letter of a law, especially if they can't make sense of the law.

I wouldn't be surprised if GA's citizen's arrest law falls in that category in this case, as regards each and all of the three charged. As in, for example. WRB absolutely did *not* have firsthand knowledge of a crime having been committed by AA, misdemeanor or felony. According to the letter of the law, he thus had no legal justification for joining in the pursuit of AA.

I'm guessing what a jury might discuss though is whether or not the actions WRB took were *reasonable*. Would a reasonable person jump into his truck and chase after someone on foot without knowing (with certainty, if at all) why that person was being pursued? Would it be reasonable to assume it was suspicious that the person was running and wouldn't stop, even when confronted with a gun? (On Burford).

Would it be reasonable/justifiable to try multiple times to trap this running person with a truck, even hitting him with the truck? While using a phone to video tape the pursuit, over 4 minutes, instead of using the phone to call 911? Etc.
 
Hope4More said:
I don't think it's even been stated yet that WRB was a member of the neighborhood FB group on which E's videos were posted and neighbors passed along "break in" alerts and info, much less whether or not he posted or "chatted" with the MM's there.
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Immediately following the shooting, WRB was casting himself in the role of innocent bystander (who might of tokenly assisted in an effort to detain the victim). As a result, there was a delay in arresting / charging WRB.

I am pretty sure I recall that the GBI stated that they had proof of "communication" between WRB and the McMichaels. This communication was one of several components that supported charging WRB.

I don't know whether the communication was before or what form it took (Facebook, texts or other social media). Communication made after the murder can still show prior coordination if it refers to past discussions.
 
Cryptic said:
Immediately following the shooting, WRB was casting himself in the role of innocent bystander (who might of tokenly assisted in an effort to detain the victim). As a result, there was a delay in arresting / charging WRB.

I am pretty sure I recall that the GBI stated that they had proof of "communication" between WRB and the McMichaels. This communication was one of several components that supported charging WRB.

I don't know whether the communication was before or what form it took (Facebook, texts or other social media). Communication made after the murder can still show prior coordination if it refers to past discussions.
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I'm guessing it may have taken a while longer to charge WRB than it did the MMs because of the unrelated criminal activity the GBI found on WRB's phone.

Fact is, GC LE saw his cell phone video at the scene, listened as he told them explicitly that no, he wasn't just a witness, that he had been involved in the chase, up to and including trying to block AA and hitting AA with his truck. Even DA Barnhill portrayed WRB as a participant, not a witness.

I'll be interested to learn what if any evidence the GBI has uncovered of pre-murder coordination between the MMs and WRB (and/or anyone else). And (or) what if any *evidence* exists of WRB's awareness of E's "black guy" trespasser.

What I'm most curious to hear at trial on this subject is whether or not the MMs and WRB have turned on each other, and/or offer up incriminating evidence about each party's involvement, voluntarily or not.

Until then, my best guess remains that the MMs and WRB didn't coordinate before that day, but that they did communicate more before the murder than has been acknowledged. At bare minimum, I think it's likely they yelled to one another while still on Burford about the MMs circling around, and that WRB would stay in pursuit. I also do *not* believe what WRB told LE, that he began recording because he thought AA would get away.
 
Hope4More said:
I'll be interested to learn what if any evidence the GBI has uncovered of pre-murder coordination between the MMs and WRB (and/or anyone else).

And (or) what if any *evidence* exists of WRB's awareness of E's "black guy" trespasser.
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I am very interested in this as well.

I feel proof of prior coordination is needed to elevate the charges against WRB to murder. Whereas you feel that WRB's actions alone can support murder charges.

So, it will interesting to see if such evidence of prior coordination exists.
 
Hope4More said:
I think what likely reveals WRB's state of mind more accurately is his also telling LE that he saw a "colored black man" running and knew "he couldn't have been up to any good."

3. I'm not sure I'd read anything more into than what's readily apparent about WRB yelling "y'all got him?" The MMs were chasing a black guy down, and WRB wanted to join in.
Click to expand...

I agree that this interpretation is very possible.

If there is no proof of prior coordination with the McMichaels to forcibly confront a specific "trespasser", I think the case for murder charges against WRB is weak. There seems to be a ready defense of:

- My unsophisticated client knew that GM was a retired police officer and heard that a current police officer had "redeputized" him.

- My client made a bad judgement in good faith by presuming that GM had lawful arrest authority and was making a lawful arrest. He then impulsively assisted GM to make the arrest.

- My client was not armed. He immediately ended his assistance when things did not look right.

- My client did not kill anybody, and had absolutely no knowledge that GM was predisposed to unlawfully confront the victim. My client did not encourage the use of force either directly or indirectly.

- In fact, my uhmm.... "shocked and appalled" client immediately turned his video over to the police for review- again, in good faith ( the fact that WRB was not appalled cant be proven).
 
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