Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020

[AgeofAquaruis]

Yes, could be, and I completely agree with your last statement. I just dislike conflicting information! MOO

Could be they noticed something that warranted " cause" for another search warrant. Also they get warrants just in case searchee comes out and says they never granted permission to search. Which would make anything they gather illegal search, and seizure. MOO

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Yes, could be, and I completely agree with your last statement. I just dislike conflicting information! MOO

Could be they noticed something that warranted " cause" for another search warrant. Also they get warrants just in case searchee comes out and says they never granted permission to search. Which would make anything they gather illegal search, and seizure. MOO

 

[Inquisitive2018]

Very noble of them to adopt 4 kids plus their two? Especially as a young couple. It would require lots of time , financial resources , emotional expenditure.
Also did the kids have any special needs?
Wonder how much of a review was done before placing them with this couple.
Also why change their given first names? Their original names are a little unique but wouldn't they be used to their names?

 

[MsBetsy]

Could be they noticed something that warranted " cause" for another search warrant. Also they get warrants just in case searchee comes out and says they never granted permission to search. Which would make anything they gather illegal search, and seizure. MOO

I don't think they would need to obtain a second warrant, as long as the search was carried out within the timeframe allowed. (usually 10 days)

However, I think a search warrant can be modified or extended, depending on what evidence they find. Imo

 

[Peppery]

1. Does any parent here have a pre schooler who would listen when told not to touch the dirt while playing outside? Mine would’ve been all over everything in that yard and I wouldn’t care much because during the window of time we’ve heard (5-8ish pm)they would be eating dinner, taking a bath and going to bed very soon. Plus chalk is messy anyway.

2. I’m unfamiliar with COL and housing in the area. Would it be unusual for 3 kids to share a small bedroom? Assuming they were divided 3 and 3.

3. If LE doesn’t believe the boys left the house, does that mean they think the boys are still in the house or on the property? Could the boys have been carried out in say a duffel bag or storage box and dogs not pick up their scent? Do they believe the boys were ever actually there?

 

[Inquisitive2018]

I am sure you all already covered this earlier on, things of interest to me ,who last saw them beside the parents, the significance of the broken leg and how he got it, pictures of the boys-they don't have anything better? kids going missing after a recent move- from the two cases I have followed the parent(s) were arrested. The other kids are with CPS.

 

[ReallyStar]

Very noble of them to adopt 4 kids plus their two? Especially as a young couple. It would require lots of time , financial resources , emotional expenditure.
Also did the kids have any special needs?
Wonder how much of a review was done before placing them with this couple.
Also why change their given first names? Their original names are a little unique but wouldn't they be used to their names?

A good friend of mine adopted two boys and was quite surprised to find out that once the adoption was approved by a judge there is no oversight. The county or state never check in again unless there's a complaint. Since my friend is a loving, dedicated father he hasn't been contacted by anyone for any sort of follow-up over the past four years.

 

[rosesfromangels]

A good friend of mine adopted two boys and was quite surprised to find out that once the adoption was approved by a judge there is no oversight. The county or state never check in again unless there's a complaint. Since my friend is a loving, dedicated father he hasn't been contacted by anyone for any sort of follow-up over the past four years.

Is your friend receiving any stipend? IWT that might effect whether children are tracked or not? Like foster care, sounds like this system needs a rework.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Ontario Mom]

I'm super new here! I've read through most of this thread and I don't think this has been mentioned but I noticed that TW said that they sent the two youngest ones outside to play while JW was wrapping gifts. It strikes me as odd that he identifies them as the "two youngest" as if there were other children in the house and then later says that the four other children were on "vacation" at grandma's house.

It didn't stand out to me, only because whether the older kids were home or not, Orrin and Orson are still the "youngest two". Also because I have 8 kids and we always refer to them by birth order instead of names, if any of us are talking to someone that doesn't know all the kids, their names or ages. Example: if talking to a family member "Name, name and name all went to the park today". If talking to someone that doesn't know their names/ages: "The youngest three went to the park today". I think it might be one of those weird "this is common in large families" kind of things.

jmo

 

[Ontario Mom]

Others have said this but I'm going to reiterate it:

TW: "I realised that I'd left the gate open so I .... ran into the house and searched it!"

Makes no sense. moo

It does if what he was trying to relay was that his hope was, they had gone inside and he just missed them - so he went inside first to check.

jmo

 

[Knox]

Yes, could be, and I completely agree with your last statement. I just dislike conflicting information! MOO

One of your best qualities IMO, you're very detail oriented

 

[rosesfromangels]

I think the two most important actions (in addition to looking for the children) that LE can take immediately are:

1. Extensively interview the adoptive parents *separately* and repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly
2. Get a warrant and trace their purchases, finances, including overseas accounts. A person's finances tells you just about everything you need to know about them.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[floridamomma]

It didn't stand out to me, only because whether the older kids were home or not, Orrin and Orson are still the "youngest two". Also because I have 8 kids and we always refer to them by birth order instead of names, if any of us are talking to someone that doesn't know all the kids, their names or ages. Example: if talking to a family member "Name, name and name all went to the park today". If talking to someone that doesn't know their names/ages: "The youngest three went to the park today". I think it might be one of those weird "this is common in large families" kind of things.

jmo

Agreed! We are raising grands and they're nearly 7&8. But after 5 of our own, youngest is 10 and the youngest two (!!) are commonly known as "the babies" lol...

 

[cvaldez1975]

Very noble of them to adopt 4 kids plus their two? Especially as a young couple. It would require lots of time , financial resources , emotional expenditure.
Also did the kids have any special needs?
Wonder how much of a review was done before placing them with this couple.
Also why change their given first names? Their original names are a little unique but wouldn't they be used to their names?

they adopted from foster care so they would continue to be paid. its not like private adoption.

 

[cvaldez1975]

1. Does any parent here have a pre schooler who would listen when told not to touch the dirt while playing outside? Mine would’ve been all over everything in that yard and I wouldn’t care much because during the window of time we’ve heard (5-8ish pm)they would be eating dinner, taking a bath and going to bed very soon. Plus chalk is messy anyway.

2. I’m unfamiliar with COL and housing in the area. Would it be unusual for 3 kids to share a small bedroom? Assuming they were divided 3 and 3.

3. If LE doesn’t believe the boys left the house, does that mean they think the boys are still in the house or on the property? Could the boys have been carried out in say a duffel bag or storage box and dogs not pick up their scent? Do they believe the boys were ever actually there?

cc is cheap for california. prob comparable to other states w lower COL. it depends on their income though, whether they could afford a larger home.

 

[Knox]

Edited - I'm hoping for a Felony Friday, crossing my fingers ...

 

[ReallyStar]

Is your friend receiving any stipend? IWT that might effect whether children are tracked or not? Like foster care, sounds like this system needs a rework.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Yes, he receives a significant payment from the county for each of them. Honestly, as they are both very active, daredevil types, he's taken them to the emergency department many times for sutures and care of other injuries. He has worried that he might have a social worker knock on his door but I guess the hospital staff didn't see any red flags that would lead to any suspicion.

 

[Ontario Mom]

they adopted from foster care so they would continue to be paid. its not like private adoption.

If you legally adopt your foster children the state still pays you for their care?

 

[cvaldez1975]

If you legally adopt your foster children the state still pays you for their care?

yes.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I was hoping for a Felony Friday - still some daylight left. Crossing my fingers ...

psst... it's only Thursday