Israel Keyes: General Discussion

[Dalia Mismaria]

Here is the Possible Sightings thread:

Possible Sightings

Thank you! I'm still getting used to this forum and all the different information. It can be a bit overwhelming!

 

[dub]

My guess (and it's just a guess and could be totally wrong) is that whatever was going on in Everett is known because of entries on Keyes' girlfriend's calendar. According to TCBS she kept pretty meticulous records in her calendar, so it's possible there was more specific information included than just "work in Everett" or whatever.

Whether I'm right about this or not, I think there's a decent chance that Josh Hallmark has this info, so you could try to contact him directly. I have no idea if he'd respond, but it couldn't hurt to ask. His email address is listed at the bottom left of the timeline page or any page on the Our Americana website.

Quoting own post for update/clarification.

This week TCBS briefly discussed the circumstances around Keyes' work in Everett. Apparently the information is known due to his tax records; I was wrong about the source, but seemingly right that Josh does have at least some of this information (although how much detail there is about who he was working for etc is not discussed in the episode, so what exactly he has I'm not sure).

 

[Dalia Mismaria]

Quoting own post for update/clarification.

This week TCBS briefly discussed the circumstances around Keyes' work in Everett. Apparently the information is known due to his tax records; I was wrong about the source, but seemingly right that Josh does have at least some of this information (although how much detail there is about who he was working for etc is not discussed in the episode, so what exactly he has I'm not sure).

Thanks! I haven't listened yet, but I did email Josh to ask what he knew. The interaction I had with a man who I believe could be him happened when I was a teenager and didn't stand out much other than a couple things that I distinctly remember being said between us. I'll have to listen to yesterday's episode. I have also considered going through the FBI files myself to look for the Everett connection.

 

[Murkywaters]

https://player.fm/series/true-crime-bullsh/ep-0412-less-than-12

The latest TCB episode touched on Khoi Dang Vu’s disappearance and uncovered some interesting revelations. In addition to Khoi’s name being on IK’s computer there are some other things that make him a possible victim.

Khoi Dang Vu – The Charley Project

At the time of Khoi’s disappearance, police initially believed he had simply wandered away from home. Police changed their belief in 2014 stating that they believe Khoi was murdered and his body placed in a dumpster, ultimately ending up in a landfill in Boardman, OR.

Josh Hallmark and the amazing team at True Crime Bullsh** discovered that there are three landfills that serve the Vancouver area, all of which are 20 miles of the city. So how and why would Khoi’s remains end up in a landfill in Boardman, Oregon?

Josh and his team discovered the landfill in Boardman, Oregon specializes in recycling and mostly accepts construction and demolition garbage. In 2007, the Boardman landfill was testing a program collecting ash and fire debris from Marion County, OR. Josh remarked this is particularly relevant as IK was known to use abandoned houses in his crimes e.g,. the Currier's murders.

Additionally, Josh discovered at around 2:40 am the night following Khoi’s disappearance, a vacant and for sale house in Marion County caught fire. I've been trying to find an article about this fire, with no luck.

 

[dub]

https://player.fm/series/true-crime-bullsh/ep-0412-less-than-12

The latest TCB episode touched on Khoi Dang Vu’s disappearance and uncovered some interesting revelations. In addition to Khoi’s name being on IK’s computer there are some other things that make him a possible victim.

Khoi Dang Vu – The Charley Project

At the time of Khoi’s disappearance, police initially believed he had simply wandered away from home. Police changed their belief in 2014 stating that they believe Khoi was murdered and his body placed in a dumpster, ultimately ending up in a landfill in Boardman, OR.

Josh Hallmark and the amazing team at True Crime Bullsh** discovered that there are three landfills that serve the Vancouver area, all of which are 20 miles of the city. So how and why would Khoi’s remains end up in a landfill in Boardman, Oregon?

Josh and his team discovered the landfill in Boardman, Oregon specializes in recycling and mostly accepts construction and demolition garbage. In 2007, the Boardman landfill was testing a program collecting ash and fire debris from Marion County, OR. Josh remarked this is particularly relevant as IK was known to use abandoned houses in his crimes e.g,. the Currier's murders.

Additionally, Josh discovered at around 2:40 am the night following Khoi’s disappearance, a vacant and for sale house in Marion County caught fire. I've been trying to find an article about this fire, with no luck.

I think it was back in season 1 that Josh said he thought Khoi was a strong possible victim, but never really explained why, and I had always wondered what the deal with that was because I never thought it a serious possibility.

I definitely get it now, to say the least.

 

[Murkywaters]

I think it was back in season 1 that Josh said he thought Khoi was a strong possible victim, but never really explained why, and I had always wondered what the deal with that was because I never thought it a serious possibility.

I definitely get it now, to say the least.

Agreed. I never really thought of Khoi as a Keyes victim. However, I always thought the statement LE made in 2014 about Khoi being the victim of a homicide and ending up in the Boardman, OR landfill was oddly specific. Josh highlighted the timing of this update is particularly significant as the last record he could find of LE suggesting Khoi wandered off was in 2010, January 2014 is when they announced they believe Khoi was murdered. Whatever they learned to make them believe that, they learned between 2010-2014. Hhhhmmm.

 

[salmonsauce]

Does anyone have any solid theories about the numerous children on the NAMUS 44?

 

[Murkywaters]

Does anyone have any solid theories about the numerous children on the NAMUS 44?

There was an important discovery by a member on the TCB Facebook discussion group about how 36 of the NamUs 44 names, were all listed on FBI's website at one time or another. I believe most if not all of the missing children on the NamUs 44 were on the FBI website.

Here are two archived links to the FBI Kidnapping/Missing Person page as they appeared in 2009 & 2010.

Federal Bureau of Investigation - Kidnappings and Missing Persons Investigations 2009 archive
FBI — Kidnappings & Missing Persons 2010 archive

My theory about the NamUs 44? I've changed my mind about its significance, I think Israel was just googling their names after seeing them on the FBI website. He also could've been sleuthing to see whether he recognized any of the missing people on there.

Edit: I just spent a bit of time digging through the FBI's archived kidnapping/missing list. Raise that number from 36 to 40. 40 of the NamUs 44 were profiled on the FBI website prior to Keyes arrest. That includes all of the children on the list. The only MP's i haven't been able to find on the FBI site are Susan Powell, Lorraine and Bill Currier and the Live Oak Doe.

 

[saussy]

There was a important discovery by a member on the TCB Facebook discussion group about how 36 of the NamUs 44 names, were all listed on FBI's website at one time or another. I believe most if not all of the missing children on the NamUs 44 were on the FBI website.

Here are two archived links to the FBI Kidnapping/Missing Person page as they appeared in 2009 & 2010.

Federal Bureau of Investigation - Kidnappings and Missing Persons Investigations 2009 archive
FBI — Kidnappings & Missing Persons 2010 archive

My theory about the NamUs 44? I've changed my mind about its significance, I think Israel was just googling their names after seeing them on the FBI website. He could also have been sleuthing to see whether he recognized any of the missing people on there.

This definitely makes sense. I agree that the Namus44 might be a lot of random searches that are more of a red herring.

I’ve also noticed that a few of the Namus 44 were on Disappeared within the timeframe of when the searches would have been made. For example, Ray Gricar and Rachel Cooke were both featured on episodes in 2011, Kara Kopetsky in late 2010. He could have seen their episodes and looked into them out of interest.

I have also noticed that a lot of the Namus 44 that are clearly not Keyes victims were kidnapped in familiar ways. I theorize that IK was searching things like “abducted from campsite” or other search terms related to methods of abduction. For example, Daniel Barter went missing on June 18, 1959 from a campsite. Mike Mason went missing on June 20, 2006 from a campsite. Michaela Garecht and Bethany Markowski went missing from mall parking lots.
Kristin Modafferi went missing after possibly meeting with someone she didn’t know, and her last known whereabouts were a coffee shop and a mall in California.

I also wonder about Jaliek Rainwalker’s name appearing in the Namus44. I think it’s possible that Keyes was searching for missing kids from foster home situations with unusual names - like Marble Arvidson.

This theory could definitely be a case of confirmation bias - it’s so easy to find Keyes elements in basically every frustrating case.

edit: wow you were not kidding! The list you linked wouldn’t load for me at first, when I tried again after making this post I realized you’re absolutely right. He was probably just clicking around the FBI website. I think this explains why some of the Namus44 looked very similar - maybe he was looking for someone who fit that description. Holly Bobo and Rachel Cooke look like they could be sisters. I guess it could be saying something that Keyes clicked on their images for them to be cached in his hard drive, but I definitely feel differently about the Namus44 now! Thanks for sharing that!!

 

[Murkywaters]

This definitely makes sense. I agree that the Namus44 might be a lot of random searches that are more of a red herring.

I’ve also noticed that a few of the Namus 44 were on Disappeared within the timeframe of when the searches would have been made. For example, Ray Gricar and Rachel Cooke were both featured on episodes in 2011, Kara Kopetsky in late 2010. He could have seen their episodes and looked into them out of interest.

I have also noticed that a lot of the Namus 44 that are clearly not Keyes victims were kidnapped in familiar ways. I theorize that IK was searching things like “abducted from campsite” or other search terms related to methods of abduction. For example, Daniel Barter went missing on June 18, 1959 from a campsite. Mike Mason went missing on June 20, 2006 from a campsite. Michaela Garecht and Bethany Markowski went missing from mall parking lots.
Kristin Modafferi went missing after possibly meeting with someone she didn’t know, and her last known whereabouts were a coffee shop and a mall in California.

I also wonder about Jaliek Rainwalker’s name appearing in the Namus44. I think it’s possible that Keyes was searching for missing kids from foster home situations with unusual names - like Marble Arvidson.

This theory could definitely be a case of confirmation bias - it’s so easy to find Keyes elements in basically every frustrating case.

edit: wow you were not kidding! The list you linked wouldn’t load for me at first, when I tried again after making this post I realized you’re absolutely right. He was probably just clicking around the FBI website. I think this explains why some of the Namus44 looked very similar - maybe he was looking for someone who fit that description. Holly Bobo and Rachel Cooke look like they could be sisters. I guess it could be saying something that Keyes clicked on their images for them to be cached in his hard drive, but I definitely feel differently about the Namus44 now! Thanks for sharing that!!

No problem! I agree, I definitely think that Keyes was just clicking around on the FBI website.

Also, Jaliek Rainwalker has been profiled on the FBI site since 2011, JALIEK L. RAINWALKER Also, apologies change the number 40, to 38. I accidentally duplicated one of the MP's.

http://www.our-americana.com/namus-44

These are the 38 of the NamUs 44 that were featured on the FBI website prior to Keyes arrest.

1. Lindsey Baum
2. Michaela Joy Garecht
3. Ashley Summers
4. Karen S. Adams
5. Lori Boffman
6. Carla Vicentini
7. Trenton John Duckett
8. Kristin Denise Smart
9. Danielle Imbo
10. Richard Petrone
11. Asha Jaquilla Degree
12. Justin Gaines
13. Alexis S. Patterson
14. Bethany Markowski
15. Steven Earl Kraft, Jr.
16. Rupinder Kaur Goraya
17. Rachel Louise Cooke
18. Kristen Modafferi
19. Lisa Michelle Stebic
20. Rolando Salas Jusino
21. Khoi Dang Vu
22. Bianca Noel Piper
23. Jennifer Lynn Marcum
24. Bryan Dos Santos-Gomez
25. Ray Frank Gricar
26. Shaina Ashley Kirkpatrick
27. Reachelle Smith
28. Holly Bobo
29. Kristine Hamilton
30. Suzanne Lyall
31. Kara Kopetsky
32. Daniel Barter
33. Amber Cates
34. Tony Luzio
35. Jaliek L. Rainwalker
36. Kayla Berg
37. Aliayah Lunsford
38. Amir Jenning

 

[saussy]

No problem! I agree, I definitely think that Keyes was just clicking around on the FBI website.

Also, Jaliek Rainwalker has been profiled on the FBI site since 2011, JALIEK L. RAINWALKER Also, apologies change the number 40, to 39. I accidentally duplicated one of the MP's.

http://www.our-americana.com/namus-44

These are the 39 of the NamUs 44 that were featured on the FBI website prior to Keyes arrest.

1. Lindsey Baum
2. Michaela Joy Garecht
3. Ashley Summers
4. Karen S. Adams
5. Lori Boffman
6. Carla Vicentini
7. Trenton John Duckett
8. Kristin Denise Smart
9. Danielle Imbo
10. Richard Petrone
11. Asha Jaquilla Degree
12. Justin Gaines
13. Alexis S. Patterson
14. Bethany Markowski
15. Steven Earl Kraft, Jr.
16. Rupinder Kaur Goraya
17. Rachel Louise Cooke
18. Kristen Modafferi
19. Lisa Michelle Stebic
20. Rolando Salas Jusino
21. Khoi Dang Vu
22. Bianca Noel Piper
23. Jennifer Lynn Marcum
24. Bryan Dos Santos-Gomez
25. Ray Frank Gricar
26. Shaina Ashley Kirkpatrick
27. Reachelle Smith
28. Holly Bobo
29. Kristine Hamilton
30. Haleigh Cummings
31. Suzanne Lyall
32. Kara Kopetsky
33. Daniel Barter
34. Amber Cates
35. Tony Luzio
36. Jaliek L. Rainwalker
37. Kayla Berg
38. Aliayah Lunsford
39. Amir Jenning​

Oh gosh, I almost feel crazy for thinking so long and putting so much weight into the Namus44 now. Thanks for compiling that list! It is interesting that he must have actually searched for the Curriers for their photo to be on his computer. It’s also interesting that he searched Susan Powell - maybe because he was fascinated or impressed by her body never being recovered despite a ton of searches.

I do wonder what Keyes thought was so incriminating on his computer if not the Namus44. Maybe his actual written search history, maps, or real estate website searches are more telling. It now makes more sense why the FBI placed so much emphasis on the Debra Feldman search because she was not on the FBI list - even though finding her name could have been a very strange fluke.

Side note: I don’t think that Haleigh Cummings is on the Namus44, unless I’m mistaken!

 

[Murkywaters]

Oh gosh, I almost feel crazy for thinking so long and putting so much weight into the Namus44 now. Thanks for compiling that list! It is interesting that he must have actually searched for the Curriers for their photo to be on his computer. It’s also interesting that he searched Susan Powell - maybe because he was fascinated or impressed by her body never being recovered despite a ton of searches.

I do wonder what Keyes thought was so incriminating on his computer if not the Namus44. Maybe his actual written search history, maps, or real estate website searches are more telling. It now makes more sense why the FBI placed so much emphasis on the Debra Feldman search because she was not on the FBI list - even though finding her name could have been a very strange fluke.

Side note: I don’t think that Haleigh Cummings is on the Namus44, unless I’m mistaken!

You are correct, I have no idea what Haleigh Cumming was doing on my list. Again, my bad! It's back to 38 now.

I do agree with you on what Keyes could have thought was so incriminating on his computer that he was going to throw it out. Maybe it was the Currier's and Debra Feldman. I also wonder about whether the NamUs 44 were just pictures cached in his hard drive or whether their names were actually on his computer. If they were names, it would be significant to know if any names were googled more than once/misspelled etc., But i think the dates and locations Keyes searched are probably the most accurate. Those are things only the FBI would know.

 

[GothMilkBag]

I think it’s pretty likely that Keyes just cycled through computers every so often to avoid the mountains of searches that would inevitably build up. I believe he mentioned in an FBI interview how he had gotten rid of previous computers based on their being evidence on there. I don’t exactly remember the price of a laptop or a computer at the time but I feel like spending $300-600 on a new system to cover his tracks was just good business in his mind.

Edit: meant for this to be a reply to the previous post.

 

[pppsuedio]

No problem! I agree, I definitely think that Keyes was just clicking around on the FBI website.

I absolutely agree and am SO EXCITED to find that others have discovered the same thing and share my view. I was actually so bowled over by this when I noticed it that I emailed Josh from TCB, as well as emailing him about some other things related to the NamUs44 at the same time. Unfortunately I went on and on and on (and on and on) in my emails and I think I came off as completely loopy, or it was perhaps even impossible to follow what I was trying to say.

I first emailed him about it on the 3rd of November 2019 and then again on the 5th, and when I didn't hear back from him the second time I felt quite deflated. I sort of felt I needed to "build my case" or else no one would listen to me on this point. I think it is hard to convey the kinds of complex things that come up in the Keyes case through text alone. I have been toying with the idea of laying out what I have discovered and come to believe in a single audio file, or even perhaps a short video. In my brain I think of it as a kind of homage to TCB. I know this isn't making me sound any less loopy but I just really respect TCB's style, values, and incredible research, and thought I could do my best to emulate that but on a miniature scale and in a sort of silly way. Anyway, I have never gotten around to doing that but I am so delighted to find it is not even necessary—others have discovered the same thing on their own! If people are interested I might still do something like that, or just put together a BIG post here laying out what else I think I have discovered related to finding the FBI website. I don't have the time to do it right now but there are a few things that I now believe that aren't particularly meaningful on their own but which make an interesting picture that I think has the potential to be important.

Also, Murkywaters - I would need to go into some other things I have found to explain my thoughts on how many people from the FBI website are on the NamUs44 list (and I have to leave my house in about 5 seconds!) but I currently believe that there are either 40 or 41 people from the FBI website on the NamUs44.

 

[pppsuedio]

I also wonder about whether the NamUs 44 were just pictures cached in his hard drive or whether their names were actually on his computer.

They were images. Face recognition software was used to analyse all the graphics files on that laptop, and suitable facial images were searched against the NamUs missing persons' photo gallery. The process seemed more complicated than that in terms of narrowing down the graphics files initially but they ultimately found that there were images of 44 different individuals from the NamUs missing persons' photo gallery on Keyes hard drive.

 

[salmonsauce]

I saw that the Spurr Ln house was for sale a few months ago and I live in Alaska so curiosity got the best of me and I drove by. I don't really know what I was expecting, but it wasn't that. Most of the neighborhood is very normal for Anchorage. It might even be considered nice. There is a cute neighborhood park close by.
What was really striking to me, however, was how ridiculously close together the homes are on Spurr Ln. The street was so narrow; it was almost 1 lane, which is a stark contrast to the rest of the neighborhood. I wouldn't have felt comfortable bringing ANYTHING illegal into the little narrow driveway, let alone a whole person. I was stunned at how brazen that act was, and ultimately I realized how horribly alone Samantha must have felt, so close to so many people who could've easily heard her.

 

[cujenn81]

Have any of you seen IK’s Websleuth account? In Episode 413 of TCB, Josh talks about finding an account they believe he used in 2011 and a comment he posted on a Casey Anthony thread on June 24th of that year. Josh read the comment on the podcast, but I haven’t been able to locate it. I spent an eternity looking thru and reading every single comment made on the morning and afternoon trial threads (both of which are 100+ pages) but came up empty. I even searched the entire CA forum using specific phrases from his comment — verbatim — and still nothing. I was just curious if anyone else had found his WS account or knew his username.

 

[saussy]

Have any of you seen IK’s Websleuth account? In Episode 413 of TCB, Josh talks about finding an account they believe he used in 2011 and a comment he posted on a Casey Anthony thread on June 24th of that year. Josh read the comment on the podcast, but I haven’t been able to locate it. I spent an eternity looking thru and reading every single comment made on the morning and afternoon trial threads (both of which are 100+ pages) but came up empty. I even searched the entire CA forum using specific phrases from his comment — verbatim — and still nothing. I was just curious if anyone else had found his WS account or knew his username.

hey! Yeah if you search “IK” it’ll come up. He didn’t actually post the comment on the Casey Anthony thread, but as a weird single comment on his own page. It’s under the user “IK1234” I think.

I found this account and comment long ago and immediately wrote the comment off as NOT one made by Keyes, but Josh is right that timeline of account activity fits. I’m just really not convinced that it’s not an angry person who made an account just to comment on the Casey Anthony thread and couldn’t figure out how to make a regular post.

 

[Murkywaters]

https://player.fm/series/true-crime-bullsh/ep-0414-follow-the-hurricanes
Marble Ace Arvidson – The Charley Project

The episode focusing on Marbel Arvidson's disappearance just dropped. A lot of interesting theories and new information about Marbel was released as a result of Josh's FOIA request for Marbel's case file.

The new info uncovered by Josh the case file includes something personal, but something that could be very critical regarding Marbel's disappearance. Marbel's foster parent Michael told police that several weeks before his disapearance, he walked in on Marbel and his male-friend, ''J..W'' fooling around, Michael referred to J.W as Marbel's boyfriend in the police interview. Josh also discovered that another male classmate of Marbel's was alleged to have had a closeted relationship with Marbel. As we already know, Keyes was bisexual and according to one of Josh's sources, Kimberly caught Keyes on the Gay hookup app Grindr on more than one occasion.

Josh remarked tghat looking through Marbel's case file there doesn't appear to have been much digging by police regarding Marbel's sexuality/past relationships. I strongly agree that this is an avenue that should be followed, if it hasn't already. Marbel's foster brother stated he last saw Marbel answering the door and speaking to an unknown white man who was wearing a baseball cap, he estimated the man was in his mid to late 20's and the same height as Marbel who is 6'2".

 

[salmonsauce]

Does anybody know which online games IK played?