George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 3

[Tippy Lynn]

On a "lighter" hypothetical. You're wrongfully charged with murder. Which of the attorneys in this case would you hire to be your defense? I know defense/presecutors are trained differently, but who has given you the impression that they're the best lawyer in this court room? For me, I'd hire Schleicher with Nelson being a close second. I hope this doesn't violate WS rules...was just something I kept thinking as I've watched the entire trial.

When it came down to it the state fumbled the ball......jmo
I would have to hire Nelson.

 

[missy1974]

On a "lighter" hypothetical. You're wrongfully charged with murder. Which of the attorneys in this case would you hire to be your defense? I know defense/presecutors are trained differently, but who has given you the impression that they're the best lawyer in this court room? For me, I'd hire Schleicher with Nelson being a close second. I hope this doesn't violate WS rules...was just something I kept thinking as I've watched the entire trial.

I think I would want those 2 too!

 

[MadMcGoo]

On a "lighter" hypothetical. You're wrongfully charged with murder. Which of the attorneys in this case would you hire to be your defense? I know defense/presecutors are trained differently, but who has given you the impression that they're the best lawyer in this court room? For me, I'd hire Schleicher with Nelson being a close second. I hope this doesn't violate WS rules...was just something I kept thinking as I've watched the entire trial.

LOL. Thanks for this.

Surprisingly, I’d pick Blackwell I think. Nelson a close second.

 

[MsBetsy]

DC had plenty of opportunity to address each thing going on around him. Most people involved in jobs rendering aid love the multitasking, the busy side of life, jumping in the middle of excitement because it is never a boring job!

Yeah, I doubt five officers armed with guns, mace and tasers felt threatened by a few bystanders armed with only their cellphones.

 

[ACE422]

Has anyone experimented with pressing, even slightly on the side of your neck to feel the effect on your airway (excluding the prone position on concrete and additional weight on your back?) . I hope the jurors do.

 

[MadMcGoo]

Has anyone experimented with pressing, even slightly on the side of your neck to feel the effect on your airway (excluding the prone position on concrete and additional weight on your back?) . I hope the jurors do.

On the side of the neck? No. I have tried on the back of the neck and upper back. I don’t feel much. JMO

 

[CrimeAway]

Has anyone else had the situation where they click to quote a post, and it says "added to multi quote" (or similar), and then when you reply there is no option to quote?

I tried to edit my post to add the quote several times to no avail.

 

[kittythehare]

Has anyone experimented with pressing, even slightly on the side of your neck to feel the effect on your airway (excluding the prone position on concrete and additional weight on your back?) . I hope the jurors do.

No.
I like my airways and I'm a heavy smoker, they've been good to me.

 

[CrimeAway]

I can say with certainty that police officers in general are constantly on alert for people that might pose a threat.

Oh, ABSOLUTELY!!! jmo

 

[ACE422]

On the side of the neck? No. I have tried on the back of the neck and upper back. I don’t feel much. JMO

When he is struggling to breathe, pushing his face into the ground - the knee is on the back of the neck. Before he loses consciousness, stops breathing and his heart stops-DC’s knee is on the side of the neck (face is turned to the side). This, in addition to the decrease in lung size (due to prone position with compression on back) is what caused a significant narrowing of the hypopharynx according to Dr. Tobin.

I’ve actually had massage therapists gently massage the side of my neck near that area and had a panicked feeling because I could feel the airway narrowing.

 

[CrimeAway]

Yeah, I doubt five officers armed with guns, mace and tasers felt threatened by a few bystanders armed with only their cellphones.

I think most people would agree with your sentiment.

However, unfortunately, due to the ever present threat of violence, I think that many in LE may be anticipating threat at every turn. (MOO).
I think that some of that depends on training, experience, personality and the unique and changeable responses of human beings under stress. I'm not defending what occurred in this case, but I do think that these factors possibly played a role.

I wish we could hear from Chauvin himself, about what REALLY went through his mind.

There are SO many things that went wrong that evening, and if all we focus on is the "knee on neck" aspect, I think that we lose the ability to really understand, and impart change.

I hope that George Floyd's death can inspire real improvements in improving police procedures, just as Elaine Bromiley's death did for anesthesiology, and crash studies and crew resource management have done for the airline industry.

JMO.

 

[margarita25]

Hi, quick question, very behind, how many days did the prosecution present, and how many days did the defense present? Tia.

 

[MadMcGoo]

When he is struggling to breathe, pushing his face into the ground - the knee is on the back of the neck. Before he loses consciousness, stops breathing and his heart stops-DC’s knee is on the side of the neck (face is turned to the side). This, in addition to the decrease in lung size (due to prone position with compression on back) is what caused a significant narrowing of the hypopharynx according to Dr. Tobin.

I’ve actually had massage therapists gently massage the side of my neck near that area and had a panicked feeling because I could feel the airway narrowing.

When his heart is bad, he’s on drugs, he’s struggling incessantly? Barring all medical expertise.

I can’t possibly recreate this. Even as a juror.

I’ve had massage therapists almost kill me because they weren’t familiar with my condition. Lesson learned. It’s scary.

 

[SouthAussie]

I think most people would agree with your sentiment.

However, unfortunately, due to the ever present threat of violence, I think that many in LE may be anticipating threat at every turn. (MOO).
I think that some of that depends on training, experience, personality and the unique and changeable responses of human beings under stress. I'm not defending what occurred in this case, but I do think that these factors possibly played a role.

I wish we could hear from Chauvin himself, about what REALLY went through his mind.

There are SO many things that went wrong that evening, and if all we focus on is the "knee on neck" aspect, I think that we lose the ability to really understand, and impart change.

I hope that George Floyd's death can inspire real improvements in improving police procedures, just as Elaine Bromiley's death did for anesthesiology, and crash studies and crew resource management have done for the airline industry.

JMO.

Minneapolis changed police policy and procedures after Justine Damond's murder. Apparently, that hasn't helped some officers to readjust their way of thinking and acting.

But I can see by Lane & Kueng's efforts that revised procedures may be helping the newer officers.

And I do agree that patrol officers in the US are faced with the daily possibility of their own death.
Which is why Thao was standing guard, and the park police officer was also watching what was going on as best he could.

 

[ACE422]

When his heart is bad, he’s on drugs, he’s struggling incessantly? Barring all medical expertise.

I can’t possibly recreate this. Even as a juror.

I’ve had massage therapists almost kill me because they weren’t familiar with my condition. Lesson learned. It’s scary.

I believe in the beginning he was panicked, which resulted in resistance. After the restraint was applied, the “resistance” was him struggling to breathe IMO.

 

[MadMcGoo]

(I can’t quote properly for some reason) And I respectfully disagree. I felt most, if not all, of his movements were resistance.

 

[CrimeAway]

And I do agree that patrol officers in the US are faced with the daily possibility of their own death.
Which is why Thao was standing guard, and the park police officer was also watching what was going on as best he could.

RSBM.

That is a big part of the problem, IMO.

Whatever happened to civics education?

Do we need to add a section to the driver's test, covering what to do if pulled over?

Should more thorough psychological evaluation and ongoing screening and treatment be available to officers?

Where are accessable evidence-based mental health services?

Why does it take an incarceration for so many of our fellow humans, to have a physical/mental evaluation, and receive help??

We reap what we sow, IMO.

Anger at what happened to Mr Floyd, is totally understandable, IMO.

However, I believe that Mr Floyd's death should not be in vain.

I just hope that some positive, meaningful change can come from this tragic situation, and actually benefit those that need help.

All, JMO.

 

[bluebird69]

Minneapolis changed police policy and procedures after Justine Damond's murder. Apparently, that hasn't helped some officers to readjust their way of thinking and acting.

But I can see by Lane & Kueng's efforts that revised procedures may be helping the newer officers.

And I do agree that patrol officers in the US are faced with the daily possibility of their own death.
Which is why Thao was standing guard, and the park police officer was also watching what was going on as best he could.

I now wonder if the settlement of $28 million could go in Mr Chauvin's favour as it implies some kind of responsibility by the MPD. Could this be related to the training of officers aspect of this case? I don't know, and per voir dire should not be taken into account by the jury anyways JMO

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Has anyone else had the situation where they click to quote a post, and it says "added to multi quote" (or similar), and then when you reply there is no option to quote?

I tried to edit my post to add the quote several times to no avail.

@CrimeAway Are you trying to do a multi quote? If just one quote, you hit reply. If you hit multiquote, you still have to hit reply next to the multiquote to put it in each time I think. ETA: Just tried. For each time you hit multiquote, hit reply next to it afterwards. Then scroll back up to next one you want to add. Hit multi-quote again directly followed by reply. That's how it's working for me right now. IIRC in the old days, you kept hitting multi-quote for multiple times and THEN hit the reply which captured all of them, but doesn't seem to work that way now. MOO

Testing 123

(I can’t quote properly for some reason) And I respectfully disagree. I felt most, if not all, of his movements were resistance.

I believe in the beginning he was panicked, which resulted in resistance. After the restraint was applied, the “resistance” was him struggling to breathe IMO.

Minneapolis changed police policy and procedures after Justine Damond's murder. Apparently, that hasn't helped some officers to readjust their way of thinking and acting.

But I can see by Lane & Kueng's efforts that revised procedures may be helping the newer officers.

And I do agree that patrol officers in the US are faced with the daily possibility of their own death.
Which is why Thao was standing guard, and the park police officer was also watching what was going on as best he could.

As a backup/workaround, you can always hit reply and open that in a new tab, then cut and paste with brackets and edit the post you want to insert it into.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Hi, quick question, very behind, how many days did the prosecution present, and how many days did the defense present? Tia.

@margarita25
The prosecution had 11 days with 38 witnesses
Defense had 2 days with 7 witnesses
(source: media thread)
OH! and yesterday surrebuttal by prosecution call back if you want to add that onto the CIC

ETA: Correction to days, added post below for entire list. If you have a specific testimony you want to review, go to that day in the media thread and the youtube is there with that day's witness list.

FINAL WITNESS LIST
TESTIMONIES ENDED 4/15/2021​

Day 1
Opening Statements
1) 911 MPD Dispatcher Jena Scurry (not to be confused with 911 call taker or fire dispatcher)
2) Speedway gas station cashier All*sha Oy*er
3) MMA guy D*nald W*lliams (prosecution only today)

Day 2
3) witness - From Yesterday, defense follow up etc with MMA guy D*nald W*lliams - he called 911
4) witness - Darn**la - was minor at the time and now 18 - she did the "viral video" that the world has seen and had little cousin with her in green shirt
5) witness - Little cousin in green (not posting any info here at WS... due to minor)
6) witness - Aly*** who was wearing white shirt and blue jeans in group shot.. knows witness #4 from school and knows another person there she drove there with ( young female K**lyn at scene with large bag on shoulder who is #7 witness) She drove up after FG was on ground -took 3 videos.
7) witness - K**lyn (?sp) Arrived with #6 witness. Minor, 17 year old. Friend of #6 Aly***. She circled her photo of standing on the curb.. had large beige bag on shoulder next to MMA guy.
8) witness - 27 yo Lady firefighter/EMT GH who was in all black with white headband that day, with CPR training (wearing uniform in court) from Minneapolis who was on a walk who took video and did 911 call. She was 7th person to arrive on the curb with others watching . The judge chewed her out at the end of today for "arguing with the court" and arguing with attorneys.

Day 3
8) Genev*eve Hans*n cont'd - Firefighter/EMT (defense questions)
9) Christopher Mart*n 19 y/o who worked in CUP FOOD store and accepted the $20 bill.
10) Christopher B*lrey 45 y/o who pulled up behind GF's car, filmed a little then left the scene
11) Charles Mcmi*lian 61 y/o who was first on scene when at CUP food wearing black shirt with white square emblem - "You can't win"
12) Lt. James Rugel with IT responsibility for body and street cams.

Day 4
13) Courtn*y R*ss GF girlfriend since 2017
14) Seth Zach*ry Bravinder - Ambulance/EMS driver
15) Eerek Smith - Ambulance/EMS who did pulse and compressions
16) Jeremy Norton - Captain/EMT at firestation #17 who responded to scene/2nd scene
17) David Pleoger - MPD Sgt. who took call from dispatcher complaint, went to scene, went hospital.

Day 5 - Friday 4/2/2021
18) Sgt Jon Edwards - MPD who took over shift from Pleoger
19) Richard Zimmerman - MPD Investigator for critical incidents;prior to turning over to BCA upon death of GF

Day 6
20) Dr Bradford Langerfeld - Resident at hospital that pronounced GF
21) Chief Arrandondo - Head of MPD
22) Katie Blackwelll - was MPD Commander of Training Division at time of GF death

Day 7
23) Ker Yang - Sgt MPD Crisis Intervention Training Coordinator
24) Johny Mercil - Lt. MPD Oversees MPD Use of Force education who trained Chauvin
25) Nicole MacKenzie - MPD Medical Support Coordinator
26) Jody Stiger - Los Angeles Use of force expert

Day 8
26) Jody Stiger Cont'd Use of force expert from LAPD
27) Special Agent James Reyerson with Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension - BCA lead investigator
28) McKensie Anderson - BCA Forensic Scientist - DNA expert, scene lead
29) Breahna Giles - Forensic Scientist - pills
30) Susan Neith - Forensic Chemist - pills

Day 9
31) Dr. Martin Tobin - Physician in pulmonary and Critical Care
32) Daniel Isenschmid - NMS Laboratories
33) Dr. Bill Smock - Emergency Medicine Physician in forensic medicine / "Police Surgeon"

Day 10 Friday 4/9/2021
34) Dr. Lindsey Thomas - Forensic Pathologist - Retired from Hennepin County, was Dr. Andrew Baker's mentor
35) Dr. Andrew Baker - Hennepin County ME who did GF autopsy

DAY 11 TRIAL 4/12/2021
36) Dr. Jonathan Rich - Cardiologist
37) Ph*lonese Floyd - George's little brother
38) Seth Stoughton - Criminal and Police Law Professor at Univ. of SC

DAY 12 TRIAL 4/13/2021
Defense Begins
39/1) Scott Creighton Retired MPD after 28 years - testified about Floyd's drug-related arrest in 2019 in Minneapolis
40/2) Michelle Moseng - paramedic for Hennepin Co. - testified about Floyd's drug-related arrest in 2019 in Minneapolis
41/3) Shawanda Hill - Passenger in GF car
42/4) Peter Chang - Park Police Officer on scene
43/5) Nicole MacKenzie - Recalled witness, MPD Medical Support Coordinator
44/6) Barry Brodd - Use of force expert

Defense Witnesses
Day 13 4/14/2021
45/7 Dr. David Fowler - Retired ME, Forensic Pathologist

Day 14 4/15/2021
Prosecution rebuttal
46) repeat - Dr. Tobin