GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #63

[ohioexpat63]

They are truly "grasping at straws."

I wonder if they realize they wouldnt look so desperate if they hadn't murdered 8 innocent people in their homes.

I wonder if they realize, now, what the remainder of their life is going to be like behind bars? Endless boredom, horrendous smells, and the constant fear you are about to get attacked by someone bigger and badder. There will be no family clan to protect your sorry butts.

Play the legal games while you can. It is, after all, our system. But at the end of the day, they will be locked away for the duration of their sorry lives. JMO

 

[Puzzles8]

I am not sure what that means. She does have a half brother, but that is all I know of as far as siblings.

I guess it could be about G4 nd JW but I take it to be about her.

There are some articles on how birth order affects people and their personality.

I'm wondering if AW's lawyers are working on something on Billy's side. Billy's older brother and RW are fairly close in age. Billy came along (guessing) seven or so years later.

That may point to a certain personality as well as traits associated with birth order.

While we wait for new facts, I'm just trying to think outside the box.

JMO, MOO

 

[Puzzles8]

They want them to remove DP officially.

**Moderator approved document from court view.**

Maybe to protect themselves if Jake screws up testimony in his plea deal?

 

[Puzzles8]

Note in the attachment (thanks CO!) that Jake's modified sentence is 8 consecutive LWOP sentences, plus sentences for the other charges and specifications. Consecutive. So it seems highly unlikely JW will ever see the outside of a prison in this life.

IANAL, but if I were one of the other 3 Wagners, I would think twice about going to trial. If that was the best sentence Jake's attorney could negotiate, I can't imagine any of the other Wags would be able to get a lighter sentence at trial, with a guilty verdict.

The prosecution has no reason to offer to reduce the charges against Billy or GW4 when they're going to trial. The best sentence they can hope for is the same sentence Jake got in his plea deal - 8 consecutive LWOP sentences, plus.

My original take on this hasn't changed. The best option for Billy, Angela and GW4 is to take a plea deal, then work to get some privileges like conjugal visits, etc.

That is only if the W3 are offered a plea deal...

ETA - Right now the only certainty is the W3 are entitled to have a trial by jury.

 

[Cool Cats]

I am not sure I have ever known of a case where a defendant threw everyone under the bus and negotiated their sentence to some degree. ha I am not sure how that works. There probably have been some I just do not know of them.

I thought it was common for one person to turn State's evidence against his
co-defendants to take a plea deal to get out from under the death penalty.

I'm always hearing about how this person broke down and confessed and told all and got a plea deal, say, 20 years, and the others get life sentences WOP or 30 year sentences etc...

The one who confesses first gets the best deal and has all the leverage. Jake had leverage but Angela, Billy and George do not.

What kind of plea deal could they get that the families would even approve of? The families had to ok Jake's plea deal.

They gave him life but he took their family's lives.

 

[Covert Operative]

I thought it was common for one person to turn State's evidence against his
co-defendants to take a plea deal to get out from under the death penalty.

I'm always hearing about how this person broke down and confessed and told all and got a plea deal, say, 25 years, and the others get life sentences etc...

It is common to turn state's evidence.

I have never heard of a person doing that to the codefendants and negotiating the others sentence to a degree also along with it.

 

[Cool Cats]

It is common to turn state's evidence.

I have never heard of a person doing that to the codefendants and negotiating the others sentence to a degree also along with it.

Oh, yeah, I see the difference, thanks.

When it comes to the Wagner Crime Family we are seeing alot of things we have never heard of. The Wagners are unique but not in a good way.

 

[Betty P]

Maybe to protect themselves if Jake screws up testimony in his plea deal?

That is only if the W3 are offered a plea deal...

Right. If they go to trial and Jake screws up the testimony, the plea deal is off, for everyone. The other Wagners would be better off negotiating their own deal with the prosecution as a way of guaranteeing they don't get the DP.

Billy's attorneys are trying to use an argument based on contract law, but in this case, JMO, the only contract is between the prosecution and Jake. It's Jake's signature on the plea agreement, no one else is included. It just happens to contain side benefits for the other Wagner defendants. They are free to take or ignore that deal.

The way I see it, if Billy wants a written guarantee that he won't face the DP, he needs to make his own deal with the prosecution.

ETA: If the attorneys want to base their argument on contract law, then Billy has to be a party to the contract. He's not. I'm just now figuring this out. I wasn't aware that plea agreements in criminal trials are based on contract law. JMO, IANAL.

 

[Betty P]

It is common to turn state's evidence.

I have never heard of a person doing that to the codefendants and negotiating the others sentence to a degree also along with it.

It's somewhat rare when all the co-defendants are mass murderers AND members of the same family. You have to admit, it's a unique situation. It keeps taking me back to the Manson Family, but there are others. Ma Barker? No, they never made it to court, IIRC.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

IMO, the 3 remaining holdouts can do one of two things, stand up and admit their guilt and beg for their lives, or bend over and kiss their guilty butts goodbye. MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

Right. If they go to trial and Jake screws up the testimony, the plea deal is off, for everyone. The other Wagners would be better off negotiating their own deal with the prosecution as a way of guaranteeing they don't get the DP.

Billy's attorneys are trying to use an argument based on contract law, but in this case, JMO, the only contract is between the prosecution and Jake. It's Jake's signature on the plea agreement, no one else is included. It just happens to contain side benefits for the other Wagner defendants. They are free to take or ignore that deal.

The way I see it, if Billy wants a written guarantee that he won't face the DP, he needs to make his own deal with the prosecution.

ETA: If the attorneys want to base their argument on contract law, then Billy has to be a party to the contract. He's not. I'm just now figuring this out. I wasn't aware that plea agreements in criminal trials are based on contract law.
JMO, IANAL,

There is as much chance of Jake messing up his testimony as there is in a tornado taking someone to the land of OZ ...

I predict that Jake will testify the way prosecutors want him to.

Why?

To keep himself from having his Penalty Phase Trial and ending up on death row. No Guilt Phase Trial as he already pled guilty. 2 trials in DP Cases.
Jake did his plea to avoid the DP, Canepa came right out and said he wanted to avoid it. She said this during Jake's last Hearing when he pled guilty to all charges.

Jake will do anything to avoid a jury condemning him and if that meant to get up in front of the families pleading guilty to 23 charges that's what he did. If it means to get on the stand and tell the jurors what he told the prosecutors that's what he will do.

Jake is not about to jeopardize his own life, he just does that to people who are not a part of his clan and to people who stand up to him telling him what he rarely hears NO .. ! JAKE NO .. !

Jake will be the one saying NO now Turn about is fair play.

 

[Betty P]

There is as much chance of Jake messing up his testimony as there is in a tornado taking someone to the land of OZ ...

I predict that Jake will testify the way prosecutors want him to.

Why?

To keep himself from having his Penalty Phase Trial and ending up on death row. No Guilt Phase Trial as he already pled guilty. 2 trials in DP Cases.
Jake did his plea to avoid the DP, Canepa came right out and said he wanted to avoid it. She said this during Jake's last Hearing when he pled guilty to all charges.

Jake will do anything to avoid a jury condemning him and if that meant to get up in front of the families pleading guilty to 23 charges that's what he did. If it means to get on the stand and tell the jurors what he told the prosecutors that's what he will do.

Jake is not about to jeopardize his own life, he just does that to people who are not a part of his clan and to people who stand up to him telling him what he rarely hears NO .. ! JAKE NO .. !

Jake will be the one saying NO now Turn about is fair play.

I believe he wants to testify honestly, too. But there are probably others who want to make things difficult for Jake. Others who want to impugn his testimony, find ways to apply pressure, make him feel guilty, threatened, etc. JMO, speculation only.

Anyone considering attacking Jake and his testimony should realize doing so risks putting the DP back on the table for everyone. They should think twice or more about that strategy. Seeing two of the other 3 Wagners consider going to trial makes me think they're not thinking it over.

Not surprising from people who thought they could bully their way into getting away with murdering 8 innocent people sleeping in their homes. They think they're "saints", like in their favorite B movie. People who were so proud of their insane mass butchery they went out and got a tattoo to commemorate it.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I believe he wants to testify honestly, too. But there are probably others who want to make things difficult for Jake. Others who want to impugn his testimony, find ways to apply pressure, make him feel guilty, threatened, etc. JMO, speculation only.

Anyone considering attacking Jake and his testimony should realize doing so risks putting the DP back on the table for everyone. They should think twice or more about that strategy. Seeing two of the other 3 Wagners consider going to trial makes me think they're not thinking it over.

Not surprising from people who thought they could bully their way into getting away with murdering 8 innocent people sleeping in their homes. They think they're "saints", like in their favorite B movie. People who were so proud of their insane mass butchery they went out and got a tattoo to commemorate it.

JMO

Well if anyone wants to mess up his Testimony it really couldn't happen.

#1. Jake is locked away in jail so no one can even get to him and he could ask for protective custody if he feels harassed.

#2. It just so happens that the Prosecution thinks ahead to cover all their bases.
Like dropping the Other Acts Evidence and Transcripts of Wagner Recordings
In early March when his trial was getting close. Reality closes in.

Prosecutors who know how to drop evidence to maximum effect certainly plan what to do if, say, someone hurt Jake and he couldn't testify even remotely.

They have everything on video. All they have to do is put up a big screen TV in front of the Jury and play all the video for them. Plus they would have his sworn statements, recordings, and signature on the relevant documents.

Of course the defense would object because they can't cross examine him this way and would have to rebut him on their own. Well prosecutors like Canepa sure would know how to beat the defense and get those video tapes admitted.

So I don't see anyone will be able to stop the momentum going forward.

 

[Antimony]

#1. Jake is locked away in jail so no one can even get to him and he could ask for protective custody if he feels harassed.

Epstein.

 

[Cool Cats]

#1. Jake is locked away in jail so no one can even get to him and he could ask for protective custody if he feels harassed.

Epstein.

The jury would still hear from Jake just in a different way.

Jake on video, Jake on audio, Jake's sworn affidavits, transcripts of Jake's testimony and all the documents he signed.

When a witness can't show up for trial they use sworn affidavits. Prosecutors always have a contingency plan.

 

[Cool Cats]

I'm wondering if AW's lawyers are working on something on Billy's side. Billy's older brother and RW are fairly close in age. Billy came along (guessing) seven or so years later.

That may point to a certain personality as well as traits associated with birth order.

While we wait for new facts, I'm just trying to think outside the box.

JMO, MOO

You said:

"I'm wondering if AW's lawyers are working on something on Billy's side."

Your post reminded me of something I'm wondering about. If the 3 sets of
attorneys started working together in February?

Like is this what a coo would be? Them getting together?

AW-1.pdf
(moderator approved) Angela Wagner

Death Penalty Mitigation and Defense Based Sentencing Projects

2/16/21
Reciprocal communication /correspondence with expert,
Reciprocal communication with other teams mitigation experts I re (?)
Coop meeting, organize.

2/17/21
Review material for possible multiple team defense Coop.

 

[Puzzles8]

There is as much chance of Jake messing up his testimony as there is in a tornado taking someone to the land of OZ ...

I predict that Jake will testify the way prosecutors want him to.

Why?

To keep himself from having his Penalty Phase Trial and ending up on death row. No Guilt Phase Trial as he already pled guilty. 2 trials in DP Cases.
Jake did his plea to avoid the DP, Canepa came right out and said he wanted to avoid it. She said this during Jake's last Hearing when he pled guilty to all charges.

Jake will do anything to avoid a jury condemning him and if that meant to get up in front of the families pleading guilty to 23 charges that's what he did. If it means to get on the stand and tell the jurors what he told the prosecutors that's what he will do.

Jake is not about to jeopardize his own life, he just does that to people who are not a part of his clan and to people who stand up to him telling him what he rarely hears NO .. ! JAKE NO .. !

Jake will be the one saying NO now Turn about is fair play.

I don't agree. Jake has unintentionally confused his lies in the past.

It's easy to keep repeating the truth. It is much more difficult to keep your lies straight.

Who knows what might happen...

Who knows what he swore to? Jake's Plea Agreement would be very interesting to see, including all of the details.

JMO, MOO

 

[ohioexpat63]

Ole Jake can't lie his way out of the physical evidence. He can't lie his way out of telling authorities where the murder weapons were hidden. He can't lie his way out of the ballistic results. I wouldn't trust any of those characters. They are entitled to their opinions, but they aren't entitled to their own facts.

 

[Cool Cats]

I don't agree. Jake has unintentionally confused his lies in the past.

It's easy to keep repeating the truth. It is much more difficult to keep your lies straight.

Who knows what might happen...

Who knows what he swore to? Jake's Plea Agreement would be very interesting to see, including all of the details.

JMO, MOO

I don't know what you mean...?

Jake saw the death penalty looming up before him. And like 1000's of other death penalty defendants he made a deal pleading guilty so as not to have to face the DP.

Pretty simple in my estimation that Jake was looking towards a fast approaching trial that was going to finish with the DP so he asks not be put to death and points to the hidden guns which are mired in cement to circumvent metal detectors and also points to vehicles used that night.

He gives out the information to collaborate BCI's findings. Not a whole lot of wiggle room to lie. Not when your life is on the line.

 

[Impurectry]

#1. Jake is locked away in jail so no one can even get to him and he could ask for protective custody if he feels harassed.

Epstein.

Right.... There have many people in jail due to testify and end up dead before they get the chance. Inmates and guards can have a price.