GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #63

Discussion in 'Trials' started by tlcya, Jul 29, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Betty P

    Betty P Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    15,218
    Likes Received:
    61,567
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, they have to give him a hearing, regardless. JMO, Billy isn't afraid, he's just angry, as usual.
     


  2. LMDlong

    LMDlong Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    1,400
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I was searching over the weekend about the motion and the proffer. I can’t find anything that can be done until after Jake testifies to fulfill his park of the agreement.
     
  3. PrairieWind

    PrairieWind Verified Attorney

    Messages:
    3,847
    Likes Received:
    19,448
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Plea agreements are made with the prosecutor. The Judge has no authority to take a death sentence option off the table. That is entirely up to the prosecutor. Ohio isn't executing any prisoners now, so its almost irrelevant. I'm sure the prosecutor knows these cases are all going to trial and is just proceeding accordingly. The defense attorneys are not wanting to do that.
     
  4. LMDlong

    LMDlong Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    1,400
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I was searching over the weekend about the motion and the proffer. I can’t find anything that can be done until after Jake testifies to fulfill his park of the agreement.
    I don’t think Billy or George could speak the words ‘I’m guilty” without choking on the meanness within them . JMO
     
    altojack, Ann99, FrankieT and 6 others like this.
  5. LMDlong

    LMDlong Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    1,400
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Thank you .
     
  6. Covert Operative

    Covert Operative Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    849
    Likes Received:
    4,753
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I am not speaking of conspiracy. I am talking about whether or not everything in JW confession may be correct and the state believes it to be. They may feel that it's not correct on some things but may not be able to prove that.

    In the indictment and under Ohio law they are guilty of murder but in a jurors mind you never know. Sometimes it seems the jurors do not even go by the evidence or the law. I am sure that every prosecutor has that fear when they are going to prosecute a case no matter how strong their case is. If it were a hung jury by some chance there may be a plea agreement reached. I cannot see any of them being acquitted.

    Yes, ask Prairie Wind what the rule is in Ohio. Each state may have their own rules regarding proffers as discovery.
     
  7. Covert Operative

    Covert Operative Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    849
    Likes Received:
    4,753
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I believe it is the same as the motion that was posted in court view Friday and was posted here. Friday was a fax and today is probably the official one. That happens a lot of times.

    07/16/2021 51. DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR SPECIFIC PERFORMANCE OF THE PROSECUTION IN DISMISSING THE MURDER SPECIFICATIONS AGAINST DEFENDANT GEORGE WAGNER III FILED (VIA FAX) Attorney: COLLINS, MARK C Attorney: HAYES, THOMAS F

    07/19/2021 DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR SPECIFIC PERFORMANCE OF THE PROSECUTION IN DISMISSING THE MURDER SPECIFICATIONS AGAINST DEFENDANT GEORGE WAGNER III (MOTION 51)
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
    Ann99, Dudly and Berrybell like this.
  8. Covert Operative

    Covert Operative Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    849
    Likes Received:
    4,753
    Trophy Points:
    93
    He already had a hearing scheduled on 9-16 to hear other motions. It seems they added motion 51 to be heard at that time also.
     
    Ann99, Dudly, altojack and 4 others like this.
  9. LMDlong

    LMDlong Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    1,400
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I’m guessing being they got a date already scheduled they decided just take care of it then.
     
    Ann99, Berrybell and Betty P like this.
  10. LMDlong

    LMDlong Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    1,400
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Oh I see you mean.
     
    Ann99 and Berrybell like this.
  11. Covert Operative

    Covert Operative Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    849
    Likes Received:
    4,753
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I took the motion as the defense asking the judge to enforce what they consider a contract that the state made to drop the death penalty. They are saying the state agreed to that.

    I did not take it to mean the defense as asking the judge to actually drop the DP. The defense is asking he judge to enforce a specific performance under the contract is how it seems to me.

    Whether the judge sees the contract that way or not, we will find out.


    google - The term “specific performance” refers to literal performance of one’s obligations under a contract. Should a party default on his obligation, a court may issue an order for specific performance, requiring a party to perform a particular action. The action is usually one that has been previously detailed in a contract.
     
    CIA Team Member, Ann99, Dudly and 5 others like this.
  12. Betty P

    Betty P Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    15,218
    Likes Received:
    61,567
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thanks for all your help, @PrairieWind! These cases have so many unusual twists and turns. The fact all the defendants are members of the same family is very different.
     
  13. Covert Operative

    Covert Operative Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    849
    Likes Received:
    4,753
    Trophy Points:
    93
    They are asking for a specific performance under a contract. I do not interpret the motion as them asking the judge to drop the DP. They are asking him to rule on what they believe the contract means, that the state agreed to.

    If he rules in favor on the specific performance for the defense then it would be dropped due to the contract. He may or may not interpret the contract as the defense does.
     
    CIA Team Member, Ann99, Dudly and 5 others like this.
  14. LMDlong

    LMDlong Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    1,400
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Not taking the defense side , maybe they want everything in writing incase JW or the state makes a mistake (in their dreams) the DP would still be removed. Just thinking out loud.
     
    Berrybell, Ann99, Dudly and 1 other person like this.
  15. LMDlong

    LMDlong Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    1,400
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Sorry Meant to add after JW testifies that is .
     
    Berrybell and Ann99 like this.
  16. ohioexpat63

    ohioexpat63 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    2,294
    Trophy Points:
    93
    All the defendants need to do is plea their own case and they wont need to worry about the DP.

    I wonder what their end game is with these motions, besides running up the tab on the taxpayers of Ohio. Does these motions allow the defendants more time outside of jail for a bit of fresh air as 4hey travel back and forth to the courts?

    I'll be happy when it is over, as I'm certain the surviving family and friends do as well.
     
  17. Ann99

    Ann99 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,370
    Likes Received:
    6,446
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I came across this article this morning and it is very interesting.
    It's not about the Wagners, does not pertain to the Wagners.
    It's not an exact comparison.
    However if you read the article you will see the perils of making a plea deal and making it correctly, from all sides, Prosecution, Defense and Judge.
    It has to hold up thru appeal.

    I have a feeling we are in for a year of all manner of motions, whatever each lawyer can think of to add to the proceedings, to protect his client, thinking ahead for possible appeal.


    Death Sentence Vacated over Advisement of Defendant Rights

    "Because the trial judge failed to verbally advise George C. Brinkman at the time he pleaded guilty that he was waiving his rights to confront witnesses against him and to have his guilt proved beyond a reasonable doubt, the Ohio Supreme Court today vacated his convictions and death sentences.

    A unanimous Supreme Court ruled that the trial court failed to fully advise Brinkman of his constitutional rights before he pleaded guilty to charges relating to the murder of a North Royalton woman and her two daughters in 2017. The trial court’s failure to strictly comply with the requirements of Rule 11(C)(2)(c) of the Ohio Rules of Criminal Procedure invalidated the guilty plea, the opinion stated.

    Writing for the Court, Chief Justice Maureen O’Connor expressed disappointment in the trial court, prosecutors, and Brinkman’s lawyers for failing “to adhere to the level of diligence expected in, and essential to, our criminal justice system.”

    “This inattention is impermissible, especially in a case such as this in which a death sentence is on the line,” she wrote."
     
    altojack, Berrybell, Dudly and 4 others like this.
  18. LMDlong

    LMDlong Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    1,400
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I agree with you. In the months ahead any motions that the defense can be file will be filed. It’s part their job. We are want to see the Wags go to prison for life. So I say go ahead file all the motions allowed. Justice for the Rhoden’s and Gilley will prevail.
     
  19. Covert Operative

    Covert Operative Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    849
    Likes Received:
    4,753
    Trophy Points:
    93
    JW may decided not to testify. Nobody thought he would confess so for him to change his mind and not testify would not be that shocking. He has a long time to think about it before trials. The family that he does talk to may put pressure on him not to testify. He may lose his new found religion that he said prompted his confession.

    They have the evidence, his confession etc. they can use, but it probably would help the defense if he did not testify. It would be very powerful to a jury to see him on the stand testifying against his family. Defense may say if he changes his mind that is because he is a liar and killed them all himself or he is crazy.

    If there was a hung jury it may make the state consider negotiating a somewhat better plea deal. My guess is they have already presented some plea deals that have not be accepted. Some of them may get conspiracy deals which still would probably not be very good, as they should not be.

    JW lawyers did say they counseled him and felt very sure he understood everything involved so it may be doubtful they will find an error on the part of the state but I am sure they will try to find anything.
     
  20. Betty P

    Betty P Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    15,218
    Likes Received:
    61,567
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, he may get a lot of pressure, but, JMO, if his rights are restored to talk to his family, they'll be restricted. Regardless, he will probably get pressure.

    With all the evidence at hand, JMO, the possibility of a hung jury is near zero. Much of the evidence shows conspiracy and includes all 4 Wagner defendants from the forged custody documents to hiding weapons and evidence. The massive body of evidence also points to the involvement of multiple killers in the homes that night.

    I recall Judge Deering thoroughly informed Jake of his rights during the hearing when he confessed. This case is a top priority in Ohio, I don't think anyone is going to mess it up.

    ETA: Given what we know of all the evidence, there's no way any jury will believe a defense attorney saying that Jake was the only one who committed the murders. That horse is already out of the barn. True, it is the oldest defense argument in history - "my client didn't pull the trigger, the other guy did."
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice