GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #63

[Betty P]

I don’t know how to post it here.
IMO Billy is nervous and may going to do a deal. And either the court scheduled a hearing regarding the motion , and it’s standard court procedure. Or Deering is going scold him and his lawyers.

Yes, they have to give him a hearing, regardless. JMO, Billy isn't afraid, he's just angry, as usual.

 

[LMDlong]

Not sure, but it looks like this Motion 51 is asking the judge to make the prosecution dismiss the death penalty specifications against him. If so, the Judge can't do that. The prosecution probably has refused to do that.

07/19/2021 REQUEST FOR COURT-PAID EXPERT EXPENSES FILED
07/19/2021 DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR SPECIFIC PERFORMANCE OF THE PROSECUTION IN DISMISSING THE MURDER SPECIFICATIONS AGAINST DEFENDANT GEORGE WAGNER III (MOTION 51)
07/19/2021 """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Judge: DEERING, RANDY D Event: ORAL HEARING ON MOTION 51 Date: 09/16/2021 Time: 11:00 AM

I was searching over the weekend about the motion and the proffer. I can’t find anything that can be done until after Jake testifies to fulfill his park of the agreement.

 

[PrairieWind]

07/19/2021
REQUEST FOR COURT-PAID EXPERT EXPENSES FILED

07/19/2021
DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR SPECIFIC PERFORMANCE OF THE PROSECUTION IN DISMISSING THE MURDER SPECIFICATIONS AGAINST DEFENDANT GEORGE WAGNER III (MOTION 51)

07/19/2021
ORAL HEARING ON MOTION 51 Date: 09/16/2021 Time: 11:00 AM

Plea agreements are made with the prosecutor. The Judge has no authority to take a death sentence option off the table. That is entirely up to the prosecutor. Ohio isn't executing any prisoners now, so its almost irrelevant. I'm sure the prosecutor knows these cases are all going to trial and is just proceeding accordingly. The defense attorneys are not wanting to do that.

 

[LMDlong]

Not sure, but it looks like this Motion 51 is asking the judge to make the prosecution dismiss the death penalty specifications against him. If so, the Judge can't do that. The prosecution probably has refused to do that.

07/19/2021 REQUEST FOR COURT-PAID EXPERT EXPENSES FILED
07/19/2021 DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR SPECIFIC PERFORMANCE OF THE PROSECUTION IN DISMISSING THE MURDER SPECIFICATIONS AGAINST DEFENDANT GEORGE WAGNER III (MOTION 51)
07/19/2021 """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Judge: DEERING, RANDY D Event: ORAL HEARING ON MOTION 51 Date: 09/16/2021 Time: 11:00 AM

I was searching over the weekend about the motion and the proffer. I can’t find anything that can be done until after Jake testifies to fulfill his park of the agreement.

Yes, they have to give him a hearing, regardless. JMO, Billy isn't afraid, he's just angry, as usual.

I don’t think Billy or George could speak the words ‘I’m guilty” without choking on the meanness within them . JMO

 

[LMDlong]

Plea agreements are made with the prosecutor. The Judge has no authority to take a death sentence option off the table. That is entirely up to the prosecutor. Ohio isn't executing any prisoners now, so its almost irrelevant. I'm sure the prosecutor knows these cases are all going to trial and is just proceeding accordingly. The defense attorneys are not wanting to do that.

Thank you .

 

[Covert Operative]

I am not speaking of conspiracy. I am talking about whether or not everything in JW confession may be correct and the state believes it to be. They may feel that it's not correct on some things but may not be able to prove that.

In the indictment and under Ohio law they are guilty of murder but in a jurors mind you never know. Sometimes it seems the jurors do not even go by the evidence or the law. I am sure that every prosecutor has that fear when they are going to prosecute a case no matter how strong their case is. If it were a hung jury by some chance there may be a plea agreement reached. I cannot see any of them being acquitted.

Yes, ask Prairie Wind what the rule is in Ohio. Each state may have their own rules regarding proffers as discovery.

 

[Covert Operative]

New info posted today on court view concerning BW .

I believe it is the same as the motion that was posted in court view Friday and was posted here. Friday was a fax and today is probably the official one. That happens a lot of times.

07/16/2021 51. DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR SPECIFIC PERFORMANCE OF THE PROSECUTION IN DISMISSING THE MURDER SPECIFICATIONS AGAINST DEFENDANT GEORGE WAGNER III FILED (VIA FAX) Attorney: COLLINS, MARK C Attorney: HAYES, THOMAS F

07/19/2021 DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR SPECIFIC PERFORMANCE OF THE PROSECUTION IN DISMISSING THE MURDER SPECIFICATIONS AGAINST DEFENDANT GEORGE WAGNER III (MOTION 51)

 

[Covert Operative]

I don’t know how to post it here.
IMO Billy is nervous and may going to do a deal. And either the court scheduled a hearing regarding the motion , and it’s standard court procedure. Or Deering is going scold him and his lawyers.

He already had a hearing scheduled on 9-16 to hear other motions. It seems they added motion 51 to be heard at that time also.

 

[LMDlong]

He already had a hearing scheduled on 9-16 to hear other motions. It seems they added motion 51 to be heard at that time also.

I’m guessing being they got a date already scheduled they decided just take care of it then.

 

[LMDlong]

I believe it is the same as the motion that was posted in court view Friday and was posted here. Friday was a fax and today is probably the official one. That happens a lot of times.

07/16/2021 51. DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR SPECIFIC PERFORMANCE OF THE PROSECUTION IN DISMISSING THE MURDER SPECIFICATIONS AGAINST DEFENDANT GEORGE WAGNER III FILED (VIA FAX) Attorney: COLLINS, MARK C Attorney: HAYES, THOMAS F

07/19/2021 DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR SPECIFIC PERFORMANCE OF THE PROSECUTION IN DISMISSING THE MURDER SPECIFICATIONS AGAINST DEFENDANT GEORGE WAGNER III (MOTION 51)

Oh I see you mean.

 

[Covert Operative]

I took the motion as the defense asking the judge to enforce what they consider a contract that the state made to drop the death penalty. They are saying the state agreed to that.

I did not take it to mean the defense as asking the judge to actually drop the DP. The defense is asking he judge to enforce a specific performance under the contract is how it seems to me.

Whether the judge sees the contract that way or not, we will find out.


google - The term “specific performance” refers to literal performance of one’s obligations under a contract. Should a party default on his obligation, a court may issue an order for specific performance, requiring a party to perform a particular action. The action is usually one that has been previously detailed in a contract.

 

[Betty P]

Plea agreements are made with the prosecutor. The Judge has no authority to take a death sentence option off the table. That is entirely up to the prosecutor. Ohio isn't executing any prisoners now, so its almost irrelevant. I'm sure the prosecutor knows these cases are all going to trial and is just proceeding accordingly. The defense attorneys are not wanting to do that.

Thanks for all your help, @PrairieWind! These cases have so many unusual twists and turns. The fact all the defendants are members of the same family is very different.

 

[Covert Operative]

Plea agreements are made with the prosecutor. The Judge has no authority to take a death sentence option off the table. That is entirely up to the prosecutor. Ohio isn't executing any prisoners now, so its almost irrelevant. I'm sure the prosecutor knows these cases are all going to trial and is just proceeding accordingly. The defense attorneys are not wanting to do that.

They are asking for a specific performance under a contract. I do not interpret the motion as them asking the judge to drop the DP. They are asking him to rule on what they believe the contract means, that the state agreed to.

If he rules in favor on the specific performance for the defense then it would be dropped due to the contract. He may or may not interpret the contract as the defense does.

 

[LMDlong]

They are asking for a specific performance under a contract. I do not interpret the motion as them asking the judge to drop the DP. They are asking him to rule on what they believe the contract means, that the state agreed to.

If he rules in favor on the specific performance for the defense then it would be dropped due to the contract. He may or may not interpret the contract as the defense does.

Not taking the defense side , maybe they want everything in writing incase JW or the state makes a mistake (in their dreams) the DP would still be removed. Just thinking out loud.

 

[LMDlong]

Not taking the defense side , maybe they want everything in writing incase JW or the state makes a mistake (in their dreams) the DP would still be removed. Just thinking out loud.

Sorry Meant to add after JW testifies that is .

 

[ohioexpat63]

All the defendants need to do is plea their own case and they wont need to worry about the DP.

I wonder what their end game is with these motions, besides running up the tab on the taxpayers of Ohio. Does these motions allow the defendants more time outside of jail for a bit of fresh air as 4hey travel back and forth to the courts?

I'll be happy when it is over, as I'm certain the surviving family and friends do as well.

 

[Ann99]

I came across this article this morning and it is very interesting.
It's not about the Wagners, does not pertain to the Wagners.
It's not an exact comparison.
However if you read the article you will see the perils of making a plea deal and making it correctly, from all sides, Prosecution, Defense and Judge.
It has to hold up thru appeal.

I have a feeling we are in for a year of all manner of motions, whatever each lawyer can think of to add to the proceedings, to protect his client, thinking ahead for possible appeal.


Death Sentence Vacated over Advisement of Defendant Rights

"Because the trial judge failed to verbally advise George C. Brinkman at the time he pleaded guilty that he was waiving his rights to confront witnesses against him and to have his guilt proved beyond a reasonable doubt, the Ohio Supreme Court today vacated his convictions and death sentences.

A unanimous Supreme Court ruled that the trial court failed to fully advise Brinkman of his constitutional rights before he pleaded guilty to charges relating to the murder of a North Royalton woman and her two daughters in 2017. The trial court’s failure to strictly comply with the requirements of Rule 11(C)(2)(c) of the Ohio Rules of Criminal Procedure invalidated the guilty plea, the opinion stated.

Writing for the Court, Chief Justice Maureen O’Connor expressed disappointment in the trial court, prosecutors, and Brinkman’s lawyers for failing “to adhere to the level of diligence expected in, and essential to, our criminal justice system.”

“This inattention is impermissible, especially in a case such as this in which a death sentence is on the line,” she wrote."

 

[LMDlong]

I came across this article this morning and it is very interesting.
It's not about the Wagners, does not pertain to the Wagners.
It's not an exact comparison.
However if you read the article you will see the perils of making a plea deal and making it correctly, from all sides, Prosecution, Defense and Judge.
It has to hold up thru appeal.

I have a feeling we are in for a year of all manner of motions, whatever each lawyer can think of to add to the proceedings, to protect his client, thinking ahead for possible appeal.


Death Sentence Vacated over Advisement of Defendant Rights

"Because the trial judge failed to verbally advise George C. Brinkman at the time he pleaded guilty that he was waiving his rights to confront witnesses against him and to have his guilt proved beyond a reasonable doubt, the Ohio Supreme Court today vacated his convictions and death sentences.

A unanimous Supreme Court ruled that the trial court failed to fully advise Brinkman of his constitutional rights before he pleaded guilty to charges relating to the murder of a North Royalton woman and her two daughters in 2017. The trial court’s failure to strictly comply with the requirements of Rule 11(C)(2)(c) of the Ohio Rules of Criminal Procedure invalidated the guilty plea, the opinion stated.

Writing for the Court, Chief Justice Maureen O’Connor expressed disappointment in the trial court, prosecutors, and Brinkman’s lawyers for failing “to adhere to the level of diligence expected in, and essential to, our criminal justice system.”

“This inattention is impermissible, especially in a case such as this in which a death sentence is on the line,” she wrote."

I agree with you. In the months ahead any motions that the defense can be file will be filed. It’s part their job. We are want to see the Wags go to prison for life. So I say go ahead file all the motions allowed. Justice for the Rhoden’s and Gilley will prevail.

 

[Covert Operative]

I came across this article this morning and it is very interesting.
It's not about the Wagners, does not pertain to the Wagners.
It's not an exact comparison.
However if you read the article you will see the perils of making a plea deal and making it correctly, from all sides, Prosecution, Defense and Judge.
It has to hold up thru appeal.

I have a feeling we are in for a year of all manner of motions, whatever each lawyer can think of to add to the proceedings, to protect his client, thinking ahead for possible appeal.


Death Sentence Vacated over Advisement of Defendant Rights

"Because the trial judge failed to verbally advise George C. Brinkman at the time he pleaded guilty that he was waiving his rights to confront witnesses against him and to have his guilt proved beyond a reasonable doubt, the Ohio Supreme Court today vacated his convictions and death sentences.

A unanimous Supreme Court ruled that the trial court failed to fully advise Brinkman of his constitutional rights before he pleaded guilty to charges relating to the murder of a North Royalton woman and her two daughters in 2017. The trial court’s failure to strictly comply with the requirements of Rule 11(C)(2)(c) of the Ohio Rules of Criminal Procedure invalidated the guilty plea, the opinion stated.

Writing for the Court, Chief Justice Maureen O’Connor expressed disappointment in the trial court, prosecutors, and Brinkman’s lawyers for failing “to adhere to the level of diligence expected in, and essential to, our criminal justice system.”

“This inattention is impermissible, especially in a case such as this in which a death sentence is on the line,” she wrote."

JW may decided not to testify. Nobody thought he would confess so for him to change his mind and not testify would not be that shocking. He has a long time to think about it before trials. The family that he does talk to may put pressure on him not to testify. He may lose his new found religion that he said prompted his confession.

They have the evidence, his confession etc. they can use, but it probably would help the defense if he did not testify. It would be very powerful to a jury to see him on the stand testifying against his family. Defense may say if he changes his mind that is because he is a liar and killed them all himself or he is crazy.

If there was a hung jury it may make the state consider negotiating a somewhat better plea deal. My guess is they have already presented some plea deals that have not be accepted. Some of them may get conspiracy deals which still would probably not be very good, as they should not be.

JW lawyers did say they counseled him and felt very sure he understood everything involved so it may be doubtful they will find an error on the part of the state but I am sure they will try to find anything.

 

[Betty P]

He has a long time to think about it before trials. The family that he does talk to may put pressure on him not to testify. He may lose his new found religion that he said prompted his confession.

Yes, he may get a lot of pressure, but, JMO, if his rights are restored to talk to his family, they'll be restricted. Regardless, he will probably get pressure.

With all the evidence at hand, JMO, the possibility of a hung jury is near zero. Much of the evidence shows conspiracy and includes all 4 Wagner defendants from the forged custody documents to hiding weapons and evidence. The massive body of evidence also points to the involvement of multiple killers in the homes that night.

I recall Judge Deering thoroughly informed Jake of his rights during the hearing when he confessed. This case is a top priority in Ohio, I don't think anyone is going to mess it up.

ETA: Given what we know of all the evidence, there's no way any jury will believe a defense attorney saying that Jake was the only one who committed the murders. That horse is already out of the barn. True, it is the oldest defense argument in history - "my client didn't pull the trigger, the other guy did."