Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Sept & Oct 2019 *Arrests* #61

[Ruminations]

- snipped to the sibling rivalry rub- That’s scary, just thinking your parents love the psychopath more than they love you.

ITA- scary indeed.

More likely, Adam’s parents had more use of their psychopath offspring. I don’t think love figures in this calculation.

 

[GRT]

I am flabbergasted.

This is a powerful interview which goes into specifics of how “ordinary” LDS families can get sucked into Julie Rowe and/or Chad Daybell, and find themselves slipping into a world of adultery, financial scamming and worse, all starting with the healthiest and kindest of intentions.

The interviewees use a pseudonym. They are facing shame for being susceptible. But I don’t think negatively of them at all. I think they seem to have an unusually strong marital bond- not held by coercion. The male in this couple spoke of male domination in marriage as archaic, and implied it is not desirable. Because of that strong bond, they were able to not get pulled apart and sucked into meeting the needs of what I would call a cult, rather than acting on their original intentions to engage in healthy and helpful community work.

The interviewees say that others can’t come forward due to the same shame they feel— and possibly more shame if they engaged in adultery (because of manipulation rather than because the marriage was a mistake), spent the family savings and/or gave up employment to support the cult with cash or labor, etc. I have to say, I do not think I have ever been as bound to a partner as these two sound- their commitment reminds me more of my commitment to my offspring. I do not think I would think badly of any person who faced the pressures they did, and made much bigger mistakes.

It also reminded me of a couple of local posters on this board, who were like, WTF??? (Or maybe more like “WHAT???”- my east coast crude is showing!) I know a name here! Because the interviewees were lovely, “normal” people who happened to be LDS. They did not seem to be extra vulnerable to me, as some players do. They seem if anything less vulnerable, due to their incredible marital bond.

This really tells us a lot more about JR's involvement, and about how Chad became power hungry. It makes me wonder if any others became zombies and had to be eliminated. It sounds like a whole lot of people were involved and accepted that light/dark rating system.

Like you, I think the interviewees were honorable and stand-up people. It seems as though they were encouraging some of the other people in the inner group to come forward.

What a mess!

 

[MTW2011]

This really tells us a lot more about JR's involvement, and about how Chad became power hungry. It makes me wonder if any others became zombies and had to be eliminated. It sounds like a whole lot of people were involved and accepted that light/dark rating system.

Like you, I think the interviewees were honorable and stand-up people. It seems as though they were encouraging some of the other people in the inner group to come forward.

What a mess!

I think it’s heartbreaking to note that this couple is likely still together because of their strong bond and ability to see reality in front of them (both now and then) and how many other families, as they’ve alluded to, who may not have ended up in the same position. It is sad for those families, sad for all those involved. I’ve often wondered about just how many more were around this smaller circle - we know the key players - but they weren’t alone and they had some following. This interview further proves all of that.
I’m glad they were able to get out and to stay together throughout all of this, and my heart aches for all the parents (and children of those parents) who may have not been fortunate to remain as a family unit if/when they started getting more into this prepper/144K/whatever we’d like to call it stuff.

this stuff - the bringing together of families under one premise, only to continually use things in order to further divide and separate those existing family ties, often at the benefit of a leader, is just so sad. People don’t have to be murdered for this to reach a devastating level, but the fact that children and adults were killed, at the hands of and by some who were supposed to be closest to them, is and always will so heartbreaking. But this interview highlighted more devastation- in multiple ways - of severing of family ties, putting families into difficult financial situations as they allocate their living funds to prepper stuff, marriages led towards divorce through all of this, the list can go on and on. It hurts to even type and think about this. Devastation, heartache, so much negative came from following along with some people who claimed to be almost above all.

 

[Colorado303]

IMOO even a quick look at materials posted by EIN shows why Defense wanted to subpoena them. Their reach across their websites and social media is huge, and being able to quantify that - down to the very city - helps bolster any defense argument about the difficulty in seating an impartial jury in the current venue.

189 million page views from 9/1/2020 to 07/1/2021 (just one of many stats from what they posted). Funny to me, they seemed fine to share information with the State but doing so for the defense was a hard no (and yes, I realize that isn’t comparing apples to apples but still)

That took them a lot of work. It seems the vast majority if their work product was publicly available. Even the website stats from Alexa. (Alexa used to be free but started requiring paid subscriptions several years ago).

I’d love to know why EIN went through the trouble. I can think of lots of reasons ranging from the goodness of their hearts to concern defense would fabricate numbers if they weren’t spoon fed to them.

Their wide reach may actually work against the defense. With so many people all across ID reading their stuff a change if venue may not accomplish much other than cutting down JP and MM’s windshield time.

 

[Gardenista]

That took them a lot of work. It seems the vast majority if their work product was publicly available. Even the website stats from Alexa. (Alexa used to be free but started requiring paid subscriptions several years ago).

I’d love to know why EIN went through the trouble. I can think of lots of reasons ranging from the goodness of their hearts to concern defense would fabricate numbers if they weren’t spoon fed to them.

Their wide reach may actually work against the defense. With so many people all across ID reading their stuff a change if venue may not accomplish much other than cutting down JP and MM’s windshield time.

Those stats are readily available via their google analytics, so it probably didn’t take long

 

[BUF]

There were daily phone calls between LVD & CD that went on for a while. When was the last time they actually spoke to each other?

 

[StrangerThanFiction]

It was said that the clinical psychologist who evaluated both MBP and BB found more abnormalities with him than with her. MBP was deemed a fit mother who did not abandon her children. She also stated in court that she did not believe in any of Chad's teachings. According to Justin Lum, one of the exhibits for BB's side (which was not used) was MG's recording of Lori in MBP's home.

I’m not recalling this part about the eval on both BB and MBP. Can you share a link for source? I missed that. Thanks.

 

[887sMtreme]

snipped for brevity

CR22-20-0838 | State of Idaho Plaintiff, vs. Lori Norene Vallow Defendant.
Case Status
Closed

I was so sure they would leave these charges in place in case of acquittal on the murder charges. Yet when they were first filed, we assumed they were placeholders until a case for murder was ready to roll. I am ambivalent about this and will be interested in what my fellow sleuths think.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

I am flabbergasted.

This is a powerful interview which goes into specifics of how “ordinary” LDS families can get sucked into Julie Rowe and/or Chad Daybell, and find themselves slipping into a world of adultery, financial scamming and worse, all starting with the healthiest and kindest of intentions.

The interviewees use a pseudonym. They are facing shame for being susceptible. But I don’t think negatively of them at all. I think they seem to have an unusually strong marital bond- not held by coercion. The male in this couple spoke of male domination in marriage as archaic, and implied it is not desirable. Because of that strong bond, they were able to not get pulled apart and sucked into meeting the needs of what I would call a cult, rather than acting on their original intentions to engage in healthy and helpful community work.

The interviewees say that others can’t come forward due to the same shame they feel— and possibly more shame if they engaged in adultery (because of manipulation rather than because the marriage was a mistake), spent the family savings and/or gave up employment to support the cult with cash or labor, etc. I have to say, I do not think I have ever been as bound to a partner as these two sound- their commitment reminds me more of my commitment to my offspring. I do not think I would think badly of any person who faced the pressures they did, and made much bigger mistakes.

It also reminded me of a couple of local posters on this board, who were like, WTF??? (Or maybe more like “WHAT???”- my east coast crude is showing!) I know a name here! Because the interviewees were lovely, “normal” people who happened to be LDS. They did not seem to be extra vulnerable to me, as some players do. They seem if anything less vulnerable, due to their incredible marital bond.

Important information in this interview, and it should be studied by anyone interested in the case. This was not a situation of a couple of deranged individuals isolated in a sea of rationality. This was a case of inner circles within inner circles within a movement of such size that the use of 60 burner phones seems perfectly plausible. Extraordinary popular delusions and the madness of crowds indeed, leading directly to heartbreak and tragedy. The interesting question is: did the larger inner group break up or just go dormant until this phase runs its course?

 

[Love Never Fails]

I think it’s heartbreaking to note that this couple is likely still together because of their strong bond and ability to see reality in front of them (both now and then) and how many other families, as they’ve alluded to, who may not have ended up in the same position. It is sad for those families, sad for all those involved. I’ve often wondered about just how many more were around this smaller circle - we know the key players - but they weren’t alone and they had some following. This interview further proves all of that.
I’m glad they were able to get out and to stay together throughout all of this, and my heart aches for all the parents (and children of those parents) who may have not been fortunate to remain as a family unit if/when they started getting more into this prepper/144K/whatever we’d like to call it stuff.

this stuff - the bringing together of families under one premise, only to continually use things in order to further divide and separate those existing family ties, often at the benefit of a leader, is just so sad. People don’t have to be murdered for this to reach a devastating level, but the fact that children and adults were killed, at the hands of and by some who were supposed to be closest to them, is and always will so heartbreaking. But this interview highlighted more devastation- in multiple ways - of severing of family ties, putting families into difficult financial situations as they allocate their living funds to prepper stuff, marriages led towards divorce through all of this, the list can go on and on. It hurts to even type and think about this. Devastation, heartache, so much negative came from following along with some people who claimed to be almost above all.

I hope these issues can be brought up at trial. The destruction of families as well as the murders. CD should never leave the cell.

 

[Love Never Fails]

snipped for brevity


I was so sure they would leave these charges in place in case of acquittal on the murder charges. Yet when they were first filed, we assumed they were placeholders until a case for murder was ready to roll. I am ambivalent about this and will be interested in what my fellow sleuths think.

I would have liked for the DA to have thrown every charge possible at her, even the smallest.

 

[GoofyJen]

IMOO even a quick look at materials posted by EIN shows why Defense wanted to subpoena them. Their reach across their websites and social media is huge, and being able to quantify that - down to the very city - helps bolster any defense argument about the difficulty in seating an impartial jury in the current venue.

189 million page views from 9/1/2020 to 07/1/2021 (just one of many stats from what they posted). Funny to me, they seemed fine to share information with the State but doing so for the defense was a hard no (and yes, I realize that isn’t comparing apples to apples but still)

That's not at all how it went. John Prior sent a subpoena for Nate Eaton to testify in court, and EIN said "nope"! Then he did the right thing and communicated with them directly to ask for the analytical data, and the state did the same. That allowed EIN to provide data to both sides. Noone from EIN will be testifying, and no opinions from any employees of EIN were given. This is how Prior should have done the ask in the first place instead of serving a subpoena on a specific employee.

Moo

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

Local update: MM was at the women’s detention center today

 

[155etta]

I am flabbergasted.

This is a powerful interview which goes into specifics of how “ordinary” LDS families can get sucked into Julie Rowe and/or Chad Daybell, and find themselves slipping into a world of adultery, financial scamming and worse, all starting with the healthiest and kindest of intentions.

The interviewees use a pseudonym. They are facing shame for being susceptible. But I don’t think negatively of them at all. I think they seem to have an unusually strong marital bond- not held by coercion. The male in this couple spoke of male domination in marriage as archaic, and implied it is not desirable. Because of that strong bond, they were able to not get pulled apart and sucked into meeting the needs of what I would call a cult, rather than acting on their original intentions to engage in healthy and helpful community work.

The interviewees say that others can’t come forward due to the same shame they feel— and possibly more shame if they engaged in adultery (because of manipulation rather than because the marriage was a mistake), spent the family savings and/or gave up employment to support the cult with cash or labor, etc. I have to say, I do not think I have ever been as bound to a partner as these two sound- their commitment reminds me more of my commitment to my offspring. I do not think I would think badly of any person who faced the pressures they did, and made much bigger mistakes.

It also reminded me of a couple of local posters on this board, who were like, WTF??? (Or maybe more like “WHAT???”- my east coast crude is showing!) I know a name here! Because the interviewees were lovely, “normal” people who happened to be LDS. They did not seem to be extra vulnerable to me, as some players do. They seem if anything less vulnerable, due to their incredible marital bond.

I thought it was a good interview but I couldn't get on board with the whole "I was hypnotized" bit. Maybe I'm just feeling mean tonight. MOO.

 

[Gardenista]

I thought it was a good interview but I couldn't get on board with the whole "I was hypnotized" bit. Maybe I'm just feeling mean tonight. MOO.

Same. I wasn’t buying what she was selling

 

[fred&edna]

Same. I wasn’t buying what she was selling

Me, three!

 

[indicolite22]

I’m not recalling this part about the eval on both BB and MBP. Can you share a link for source? I missed that. Thanks.

I remember this being discussed on WS before. Justin Lum made notes from the trial, but it looks like he omitted the part about BB's assessment: Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix

Other people were live tweeting while listening to the trial. You can find the information if you search for melani abnormalities on Twitter.

 

[indicolite22]

Important information in this interview, and it should be studied by anyone interested in the case. This was not a situation of a couple of deranged individuals isolated in a sea of rationality. This was a case of inner circles within inner circles within a movement of such size that the use of 60 burner phones seems perfectly plausible. Extraordinary popular delusions and the madness of crowds indeed, leading directly to heartbreak and tragedy. The interesting question is: did the larger inner group break up or just go dormant until this phase runs its course?

IMO, without the murders and murder attempts there would be no criminal investigation. PAP has shut down after this case broke and so did HS's forum, both likely out of fear of excommunication, but others like AVOWand JR continued with their business as usual - some quite successfully. I consider the wider group to be people who believed in multiple probations, were told by Chad (or others) about their past lives, etc. Some of them were closer to other gurus than Chad. I'm not sure if they needed burner phones if they weren't doing anything illegal. So far, Chandler PD documents indicate that Lori had 6 phone numbers, MBP 4 and Tylee, Chad and Alex 2 each. There's no sign that JR was being investigated for the murders.

 

[klosssm]

So I have not been on here in quite some time. Starting to get back into it. So forgive me if I am backtracking. I am disappointing in charges dropped, but as long as they go to prison I am satisfied. I just finished watching testimony on Court TV. Most likely old. After hearing the way they found JJ, I believe he was alive when murdered. The duct tape is a key. Chad shows no emotion. He is pure evil.

 

[MsJosie]

There were daily phone calls between LVD & CD that went on for a while. When was the last time they actually spoke to each other?

the last time…would probably be the day the children was discovered in CD back yard and he was arrested. LV was calling him from jail, he was in the car and telling her the LE were in back yard. A real in depth discussion would be just before LV was arrested in Hawaii. While in jail I am sure their conversations were recorded and they were careful in what they said.

however I wonder if letters were being passed and still are being passed through their lawyers.