UK - Major incident, gunshots heard, Plymouth, 12 August 2021

[Mercsw]

Absolutely, perhaps I have been naive, but I thought you needed a specific reason to own a shotgun, not simply to be over 18 and not have a criminal record.

Although this type of crime is very rare, there seems to be a gap in the shotgun licensing legislation which needs to be closed. There was no reason for this guy living in the suburbs with the job he had to have a gun and he should not have had one.

This is not the first case I have heard of where a shotgun licence has been removed and then returned and a murder or murders have occurred. There seems to be an issue with that system.

We must tighten the laws further if they allow people to have 365 days a year, 24 hours a day access to these weapons, and those people don’t need them for their jobs.

I thought the law was you had to have land where you could use it, it had to be relevant to your lifestyle/occupation and you had to pass stringent tests on suitability, plus you needed safe storage too.

I don’t see how he met this criteria aged 23, having spent his life in a specialist school for disturbed children, with his mother seeking mental health assistance, having had it removed for an assault, and with links to groups involved in mass shootings.

 

[Skigh]

Plymouth killer Jake Davison was handed shotgun back last month | Daily Mail Online


Police gave shotgun BACK to Plymouth gunman after giving him an "anger management class" just a month before rampage which followed his mother's pleas for mental health help'

• Jake Davison, 22, had his pump-action shotgun confiscated in 2020 over an allegation of assault
• But after attending an anger management course, the bodybuilder was given back the firearm just last month

 

[Sarahlou]

Plymouth killer Jake Davison was handed shotgun back last month | Daily Mail Online


Police gave shotgun BACK to Plymouth gunman after giving him an "anger management class" just a month before rampage which followed his mother's pleas for mental health help'

• Jake Davison, 22, had his pump-action shotgun confiscated in 2020 over an allegation of assault
• But after attending an anger management course, the bodybuilder was given back the firearm just last month

What an absolute joke. Awful decision. I still don't understand why he ever had a license in the first place

This is from the government website. So what was his good reason for having one?

A shotgun certificate will not be given or renewed if the chief officer of police has a reason that you should not be allowed to have a shotgun under the Firearms Act. Or if they do not think you have a good reason to have, buy or acquire a shotgun.

Shotgun and firearm certificates - GOV.UK

 

[Alyce]

For anybody to own a gun in Great Britain, they need a licence that is granted by local police forces.....

People wanting to get a gun licence have to apply to their local police force, who will assess if they do not pose a threat to public safety .....

Any previous criminal convictions, however old or minor, even spent convictions and motoring offences, must be declared....

Two people, of good character, who have known the person for at least two years but are not related, have to be referees.

They will be asked about the person's general character and background to help the police determine if the person is fit to possess a firearm.

A person's GP can also be contacted and will share medical information to ensure that person is medically fit to own a gun.

A note will be placed on a gun owner's GP record so they are aware their patient has a gun and can inform police if they have concerns


Evidence of alcohol or drug abuse, aggressive or anti-social behaviour, domestic abuse or patterns of disturbing and unusual behaviour can all lead to police determining a person is not fit to own a gun.

Specialist police officers make the decision and carry out a home visit where they interview the applicant and consider their security arrangements for keeping a gun.

The officers will check out their gun cabinet, which must be secured to a fixed wall with the keys placed securely elsewhere.




More at the link ............



Plymouth shooting: The UK's gun laws - who can have a firearm and which types are legal?

 

[jslk]

I thought the law was you had to have land where you could use it, it had to be relevant to your lifestyle/occupation and you had to pass stringent tests on suitability, plus you needed safe storage too.

I don’t see how he met this criteria aged 23, having spent his life in a specialist school for disturbed children, with his mother seeking mental health assistance, having had it removed for an assault, and with links to groups involved in mass shootings.

I really think all of us in the UK view(ed) our gun laws as pretty immaculate, and Hungerford and Dunblane as genuine 'never again' events. I'm really shocked about this case. Of course, people can always obtain firearms illegally but it blows my mind that he appears to have had a legally held weapon.

 

[jslk]

For anybody to own a gun in Great Britain, they need a licence that is granted by local police forces.....

People wanting to get a gun licence have to apply to their local police force, who will assess if they do not pose a threat to public safety .....

Any previous criminal convictions, however old or minor, even spent convictions and motoring offences, must be declared....

Two people, of good character, who have known the person for at least two years but are not related, have to be referees.

They will be asked about the person's general character and background to help the police determine if the person is fit to possess a firearm.

A person's GP can also be contacted and will share medical information to ensure that person is medically fit to own a gun.

A note will be placed on a gun owner's GP record so they are aware their patient has a gun and can inform police if they have concerns


Evidence of alcohol or drug abuse, aggressive or anti-social behaviour, domestic abuse or patterns of disturbing and unusual behaviour can all lead to police determining a person is not fit to own a gun.

Specialist police officers make the decision and carry out a home visit where they interview the applicant and consider their security arrangements for keeping a gun.

The officers will check out their gun cabinet, which must be secured to a fixed wall with the keys placed securely elsewhere.




More at the link ............



Plymouth shooting: The UK's gun laws - who can have a firearm and which types are legal?

From the link:
How many people have licences in the UK?

As of 31 March 2021, in England and Wales, 564,929 people held a firearm and/or a shotgun certificate - a 3% decrease of 20,422 since last year.

Nearly all applications (97-98%) were granted while 306 firearms certificates and 982 shotgun certificates were revoked.

In Scotland, 71,066 firearm and shotgun certificates were on issue by the same date, while 62 firearms certificates and 86 shotgun certificates were revoked.

Idk how many I'd have guessed, but half a million people seems a lot!!!

 

[Skigh]

For anybody to own a gun in Great Britain, they need a licence that is granted by local police forces.....

People wanting to get a gun licence have to apply to their local police force, who will assess if they do not pose a threat to public safety .....

Any previous criminal convictions, however old or minor, even spent convictions and motoring offences, must be declared....

Two people, of good character, who have known the person for at least two years but are not related, have to be referees.

They will be asked about the person's general character and background to help the police determine if the person is fit to possess a firearm.

A person's GP can also be contacted and will share medical information to ensure that person is medically fit to own a gun.

A note will be placed on a gun owner's GP record so they are aware their patient has a gun and can inform police if they have concerns


Evidence of alcohol or drug abuse, aggressive or anti-social behaviour, domestic abuse or patterns of disturbing and unusual behaviour can all lead to police determining a person is not fit to own a gun.

Specialist police officers make the decision and carry out a home visit where they interview the applicant and consider their security arrangements for keeping a gun.

The officers will check out their gun cabinet, which must be secured to a fixed wall with the keys placed securely elsewhere.




More at the link ............



Plymouth shooting: The UK's gun laws - who can have a firearm and which types are legal?

The list should also include a check on a person's social media .


How a gun licence was awarded in the first place is unbelievably negligent and then to be reinstated after an anger management course is beyond my comprehension.

It will be another case of apologies and 'lessons will be learnt'.

 

[Rosegold68]

I like the ‘check on a persons social media’ says it all really

 

[Alyce]

Considering he talked about being a loner and speaking to no one, I'm wondering where he managed to find 2 referees.

 

[RusselSprout]

I watched his vids on YouTube before they were taken down and he said he only speaks to two people regularly, one was his mum and I think the second was his boss.

 

[Bluebear15]

I thought the law was you had to have land where you could use it, it had to be relevant to your lifestyle/occupation and you had to pass stringent tests on suitability, plus you needed safe storage too.

I don’t see how he met this criteria aged 23, having spent his life in a specialist school for disturbed children, with his mother seeking mental health assistance, having had it removed for an assault, and with links to groups involved in mass shootings.

Do you have a MSM link referring to him having gone to a specialist school for disturbed children? I can't find evidence of this anywhere.

 

[Alyce]

Do you have a MSM link referring to him having gone to a specialist school for disturbed children? I can't find evidence of this anywhere.

Diagnosed with autism as a child, Davison was sent to Mount Tamar special school in Plymouth, where he was said to have been a 'disruptive' influence on his peers.


Obsessions of a maniac who called himself the Terminator | Daily Mail Online

 

[ElizaKate]

Considering he talked about being a loner and speaking to no one, I'm wondering where he managed to find 2 referees.

If it was a shotgun license he only needed one referee - Shotgun and firearm certificates - GOV.UK

ETA: It was a shotgun license he had...

"He boasted to followers that he held a shotgun licence, writing: 'It would be good if there were more [shooting] ranges and clubs too.

'I have a section SGC (shotgun certificate) but would properly have a FAC (firearms certificate) as well if there were more ranges... as soon as I get a car, which should not take too long, I will apply for my FAC.' "

Obsessions of a maniac who called himself the Terminator | Daily Mail Online

 

[Bluebear15]

Diagnosed with autism as a child, Davison was sent to Mount Tamar special school in Plymouth, where he was said to have been a 'disruptive' influence on his peers.


Obsessions of a maniac who called himself the Terminator | Daily Mail

Thanks, that's very helpful.

 

[Supernovae]

Further to the Twitter thread that was posted earlier:

Serious concerns about school for kids with additional needs

Inspectors found staff at Mount Tamar School are at times subject to physical assault and its current restraint policy is 'inadequate', as pupils felt unsafe and believed that restraint "is used as a punishment" to "hurt them deliberately".

Ofsted visited the Row Lane school in Higher St Budeaux on March 17 and 18 this year, after concerns were raised in regards to safeguarding and the effectiveness of leadership and management at the school, including governance.

During the two-day visit inspectors found the school's restraint policy could be "potentially dangerous", adding that it must develop a process for recording the use of physical restraint "that is fit for purpose and contributes to managing pupils' behaviour more effectively".

The report, which was published on May 11, also stated the behaviour of pupils had "deteriorated rapidly", which resulted in a "high" number of pupils being excluded from the school. Poor behaviour was also noted and is said to put "pupils and staff increasingly at risk".

Verbal abuse of staff is also reported to be common, "and at times staff are subject to physical assault".

Inspectors said both pupils and staff were unsafe, due to the "extremely weak culture" of safeguarding, both in terms of policy and practice.

 

[everybodhi]

If it was a shotgun license he only needed one referee - Shotgun and firearm certificates - GOV.UK

ETA: It was a shotgun license he had...

"He boasted to followers that he held a shotgun licence, writing: 'It would be good if there were more [shooting] ranges and clubs too.

'I have a section SGC (shotgun certificate) but would properly have a FAC (firearms certificate) as well if there were more ranges... as soon as I get a car, which should not take too long, I will apply for my FAC.' "

Obsessions of a maniac who called himself the Terminator | Daily Mail Online

Not much in the way of requirements to act as a "referee" for a gun owner.
Basically, it cannot be your family or a cop and they must be a resident of "good character" who has known you two years.
I assume that's anyone with a job and no criminal record, there are no age parameters.
And you cannot pay them for the honor of knowing they are responsible for vouching for you if it goes bad.
This guy's referee must be feeling some regrets today.

Referees
The referee(s) who have agreed to act for you must have known you personally for at least two years and must be resident in Great Britain.

A referee must not be a member of your immediate family, a registered firearms dealer, a serving police officer, a police employee, a Police and Crime Commissioner or a member of their staff, or a member of, or a member of staff of, the Scottish Police Authority.

Referees must be of good character and any references they agree to provide must be given freely and not on payment.

www.met.police.uk/ar/applyregister/fao/af/apply-firearm-shotgun-explosives-certificate/firearms-application-guidance-notes/#referees

 

[ElizaKate]

Hadn't seen this footage before so not sure if it's been posted on the thread yet.
CCTV appears to show Plymouth shooter Jake Davison in middle of killing spree | ITV News

 

[Baciagalupo]

From the link:
How many people have licences in the UK?

As of 31 March 2021, in England and Wales, 564,929 people held a firearm and/or a shotgun certificate - a 3% decrease of 20,422 since last year.

Nearly all applications (97-98%) were granted while 306 firearms certificates and 982 shotgun certificates were revoked.

In Scotland, 71,066 firearm and shotgun certificates were on issue by the same date, while 62 firearms certificates and 86 shotgun certificates were revoked.

Idk how many I'd have guessed, but half a million people seems a lot!!!

That made me curious so I checked for Germany:

Themenseite: Schusswaffen
955,767 people own 5,400,329 firearms

More than I thought...

Other than that I'm so sick of men killing people because they are furious about not having a girlfriend. Incels, redpill, blackpill, all these concepts are so dangerous.

 

[Baciagalupo]

I watched his vids on YouTube before they were taken down and he said he only speaks to two people regularly, one was his mum and I think the second was his boss.

And then add social media into that and it's a dangerous mix.

 

[SpursGyal]

Teenage boy, 16, smacked in the face at Plymouth skate park