UK - Sabina Nessa, 28, found murdered in park, SE London, 18 Sep 2021 *Arrest*

[Lubilu]

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Looking at this picture has something been pixalled out on his trousers?

I don't think so. Unless they've pixelated out his shoes, shadow and forehead for some unknown reason, too, I don't think anything is purposefully obscured here. It just looks like a grainy, low quality cctv photo me. In fact, to me the portion of his legs you're talking about, and what some have speculated as 'blood on his hands' is very reminiscent of one of those slightly translucent (biodegradable) supermarket bags with a red handle. I won't name the supermarket but I'll see if I can find an image/take one from my own home as comparison. Just my initial feeling.

 

[Skigh]

To me ,looking at the left hand picture, it does look like a stain on his trousers.

 

[Dotta]

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To me ,looking at the left hand picture, it does look like a stain on his trousers.

Or a shadow.

 

[Lubilu]

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To me ,looking at the left hand picture, it does look like a stain on his trousers.

It's just a low quality cctv image, and that discolouration is a very normal factor in low res images. Imo I don't think that's the case.

 

[Deleted member 269000]

I’m honestly a bit confused. I’m not licensed to practice in the UK, but it appears from a cursory Google search that the standard of proof to arrest an individual is similar to probable cause here in the US, namely, that LE have to have “reasonable grounds” to believe an individual is involved in criminal activity. As such, I can’t wrap my head around police arresting two suspects before letting them go. That would be extremely unusual here. Perhaps a lawyer in the UK could clarify why that might be so? Because the standard is fairly high, it seems strange that they have enough for an arrest warrant but not enough to hold the individual.

Police powers of arrest: your rights

 

[SouthLondon85]

I’m honestly a bit confused. I’m not licensed to practice in the UK, but it appears from a cursory Google search that the standard of proof to arrest an individual is similar to probable cause here in the US, namely, that LE have to have “reasonable grounds” to believe an individual is involved in criminal activity. As such, I can’t wrap my head around police arresting two suspects before letting them go. That would be extremely unusual here. Perhaps a lawyer in the UK could clarify why that might be so? Because the standard is fairly high, it seems strange that they have enough for an arrest warrant but not enough to hold the individual.

Police powers of arrest: your rights

My understanding - as a non lawyer - is that the police have 24 hours to question a suspect. At that point they either have to get a charge okayed by the CPS, make a case for an extension of questioning time, or release the suspect. If a suspect no commets an entire interview and there's no conrete evidence tying them to the crime at that stage, then I can see how they'd have no choice but to let them go. But for that to happen twice seems really odd to me.

 

[Deleted member 269000]

My understanding - as a non lawyer - is that the police have 24 hours to question a suspect. At that point they either have to get a charge okayed by the CPS, make a case for an extension of questioning time, or release the suspect. If a suspect no commets an entire interview and there's no conrete evidence tying them to the crime at that stage, then I can see how they'd have no choice but to let them go. But for that to happen twice seems really odd to me.

Perhaps it’s a mistake on the part of MSM, but the continued use of the term “arrest“ signifies to me that these are more than investigatory detentions

 

[Rusty Braincells]

I’m honestly a bit confused. I’m not licensed to practice in the UK, but it appears from a cursory Google search that the standard of proof to arrest an individual is similar to probable cause here in the US, namely, that LE have to have “reasonable grounds” to believe an individual is involved in criminal activity. As such, I can’t wrap my head around police arresting two suspects before letting them go. That would be extremely unusual here. Perhaps a lawyer in the UK could clarify why that might be so? Because the standard is fairly high, it seems strange that they have enough for an arrest warrant but not enough to hold the individual.

Police powers of arrest: your rights

As I understand it, it is generally accepted that the standard of proof for an arrest for most crimes in the UK is, in broad terms, lower than in the US. That is one reason why asking Brits on ESTA waiver forms if they’ve ever been arrested, is seen by some to be a slightly unfair question, given the differences between the two systems, as it is notably easier to get arrested here than in the States. On the other hand — and for the same reason — an arrest for more minor offences will carry less social stigma here than in the US.

For a matter like murder however, I wouldn’t expect them to be very far off one another, and an arrest on suspicion of murder, now times two, that doesn’t result in a charge shortly afterwards, seems quite unusual. As I recall, Wayne Couzens was originally arrested on a lower charge of kidnap of SE and the charges were upgraded to include murder later.

So this is all puzzling, I was feeling confident on this case but now I don’t. I hope someone puts a name to those CCTV images and tells the police.

 

[Beans]

I’m puzzled by the speed at which arrests have been made and all then released pretty quickly. On one hand it could be that they know what’s what and just need to go get the evidence ducks in a row, but on the other I wonder if it’s perhaps scattergun. I so hope it isn’t the latter.

It’s London, city of cameras and people everywhere. For that reason I remain confident that they’ll get their man - or men.

 

[Legally Bland]

I’m honestly a bit confused. I’m not licensed to practice in the UK, but it appears from a cursory Google search that the standard of proof to arrest an individual is similar to probable cause here in the US, namely, that LE have to have “reasonable grounds” to believe an individual is involved in criminal activity. As such, I can’t wrap my head around police arresting two suspects before letting them go. That would be extremely unusual here. Perhaps a lawyer in the UK could clarify why that might be so? Because the standard is fairly high, it seems strange that they have enough for an arrest warrant but not enough to hold the individual.

Police powers of arrest: your rights

This quote from a different case has a link to explain the differences, lower threshold in the UK.

Just adding this old article here for the benefit of our US posters, it explains the differences in arrest protocol really well:

What It’s Like To Be Arrested in the U.K.

 

[SouthLondon85]

Has anyone been able to find the traffic camera archive? I remember early on after Sarah Everard's disappearance a WSers identified censored cameras on the archive which turned out to be the ones that had captured Wayne Couzens driving out of London. If there's any similar censored archive footage that might indicate the police have a clear idea who they're after.

 

[CocoChanel]

MOD NOTE

Going forward, please DO NOT bring up the possibility of this being an “honor killing”. Websleuths rules state that any speculation must be based on published fact. At this time, there is no indication that this subject has anything to do with this horrible crime. Cleaning up the previous mention of this will take some work, but from here on, it is not allowed to be brought to this thread.

It will help immensely if members would REPORT posts that are questionable instead of replying to them. Unfortunately that creates a larger thread clean up.

THANK YOU for assisting us in upholding the principles of Websleuths.

 

[Dotta]

Well, the attack happened at the door step and it seems there was no sexual assault involved. It means, in my opinion, that the murderer was sb known to S.
The Police must routinely tick all boxes - check:
first date man/an ex/family/friends/ colleagues (place of work, possible arguments with students' parents) etc. <modsnip>
If the attack happened in the park, then it might suggest a random perp.
But it seems it wasnt the case.
Sb held terrible grudge against this poor woman.
And she paid with her life.

 

[Giveusaclue]

Gosh I’m sad. I’m sad that this has to be a thing again. Women should be able to move around this world without fear. The fact that we can’t makes me terrified.

 

[Lubilu]

MOD NOTE

Going forward, please DO NOT bring up the possibility of this being an “honor killing”. Websleuths rules state that any speculation must be based on published fact. At this time, there is no indication that this subject has anything to do with this horrible crime. Cleaning up the previous mention of this will take some work, but from here on, it is not allowed to be brought to this thread.

It will help immensely if members would REPORT posts that are questionable instead of replying to them. Unfortunately that creates a larger thread clean up.

THANK YOU for assisting us in upholding the principles of Websleuths.

Thank you for clarifying that this topic falls outside of the terms of service. Let's all move on @Beans, great talk - thank you - and some great intuition you have there...!

 

[Beans]

Thank you for clarifying that this topic falls outside of the terms of service. Let's all move on @Beans, great talk - thank you - and some great intuition you have there...!

Likewise Lubilu

Much too much time spent thinking about crime helps to hone the spidey senses!

And now I’m away off to stare at TFL JamCams again….

 

[Beans]

Gosh I’m sad. I’m sad that this has to be a thing again. Women should be able to move around this world without fear. The fact that we can’t makes me terrified.

The situation is shocking in its brutality but there’s also something extra terrifying about the audacity of it. Similar to Everard I guess. Busy city location, not particularly late at night, highly likely to be caught on cameras or by witnesses…. And none of that mattered. It’s viscerally chilling.

 

[Smkd]

I have been racking my brain about how could she have ended up in that park if she was killed around 8:30, even if it was quiet. But now we know that she was actually attacked right after leaving her flat, so whoever is responsible would’ve had to carry a limp woman all the way there without raising suspicions (not a long walk but a good 400 meters).

<modsnip>

 

[KensingtonandChelsea]

If it was dark maybe not many people paid attention to a man carrying what may have looked like a drunk girlfriend/friend.

 

[jiminy]

Regarding the arrests and releases, I can think of one case where arrests on suspicion of murder led to releases. However, that case turned out to not be a murder. Gaia Pope death: Arrested family want police apology