Found Deceased UK - Leah Croucher, 19, Emerson Valley, Milton Keynes, 14 Feb 2019 #5

[SaintGertrude]

I was wondering if there could be any connection with the Sabina Nessa murder and Leah Croucher being possibly abducted. Was Sabina originally from Milton Keynes?

 

[SaintGertrude]

I was wondering if there could be any connection with the Sabina Nessa murder and Leah Croucher being possibly abducted. Was Sabina originally from Milton Keynes?

My question has been answered now on the recently murdered Sabina Nessa post and she originally comes from Sandy, Bedfordshire so about 30 Miles away. I am still unsure if she was born in Milton Keynes as I first thought but seems unlikely there is any connection with the possible murder/abduction of Leah.

 

[Lindsay Lou Who]

I think we should all be mindful that Leah's family may well read this thread. And in my opinion we should be careful and considerate when suggesting her family could be involved with her disappearance. In my opinion and that of the Police as far as we are aware, Leah's family have never been under suspicion and are victims themselves. They have had a whole world of heartache to deal with over the last two and a half years.

 

[JuicyLucy]

I think we should all be mindful that Leah's family may well read this thread. And in my opinion we should be careful and considerate when suggesting her family could be involved with her disappearance. In my opinion and that of the Police as far as we are aware, Leah's family have never been under suspicion and are victims themselves. They have had a whole world of heartache to deal with over the last two and a half years.

If that's directed at me, I think I made every effort to explain that (while the police undoubtedly did regard them as potential suspects whether they - or you - are aware of it) any personal involvement in her disappearance is at the extreme end of a hypothetical spectrum of possibilities. Much more likely, as I think I made very clear, is the fact that the guilt, shame and sense of impotence that comes hand in hand with having a family member missing is apt to skew ones perception of how best to make sense of incomprehensible events. It is the perception (on this thread) that people are accusing them of lying that is a problem, not the acknowledgement that they are genuinely not the best people to be weighing up what they have come to see as evidence in Leah's case.

I am well placed to know how true that is as I come from a family that has been similarly affected.

And I think - or at least hope - that if Leah's parents are reading, they will appreciate the rigour that some of us are trying to bring to our analysis of the facts of the case.

JMO

 

[Lindsay Lou Who]

If that's directed at me, I think I made every effort to explain that (while the police undoubtedly did regard them as potential suspects whether they - or you - are aware of it) any personal involvement in her disappearance is at the extreme end of a hypothetical spectrum of possibilities. Much more likely, as I think I made very clear, is the fact that the guilt, shame and sense of impotence that comes hand in hand with having a family member missing is apt to skew ones perception of how best to make sense of incomprehensible events. It is the perception (on this thread) that people are accusing them of lying that is a problem, not the acknowledgement that they are genuinely not the best people to be weighing up what they have come to see as evidence in Leah's case.

I am well placed to know how true that is as I come from a family that has been similarly affected.

And I think - or at least hope - that if Leah's parents are reading, they will appreciate the rigour that some of us are trying to bring to our analysis of the facts of the case.

JMO

Not solely at you, no.

However I absolutely stand by what I previously said.

Having experienced my own fifteen year old Neice go missing and thankfully return home safely a number of weeks later, I can sympathise with some of what Leah's family and friends have been through. And I only had a glimmer of the heartache and worry they have been through. I can only imagine their despair if they feel the Police haven't looked into certain evidence they feel could help in finding Leah.
I am also of the opinion that if they are reading this thread they probably don't appreciate some of the suggestions that have been made.

JMO

 

[BrianJohnson]

I am also of the opinion that if they are reading this thread they probably don't appreciate some of the suggestions that have been made.

JMO

Might as well close down the forum then

There always the possibility of a family member of a victim reading a thread, likewise there is always the possibility criminals who are responsible for what happened to the subject of the thread read the thread too

 

[Lindsay Lou Who]

Might as well close down the forum then

There always the possibility of a family member of a victim reading a thread, likewise there is always the possibility criminals who are responsible for what happened to the subject of the thread read the thread too

You have taken what I have said completely the wrong way! Debate is great, as is looking at a case from many different angles with different theories. Over my time of following Leah's disappearance I have certainly changed my thoughts on what could have happened to her. And I have the members of this thread to thank for that. What I struggle with is insinuations or suggestions that Leah's family are lying.

 

[Cherwell]

What I struggle with is insinuations or suggestions that Leah's family are lying.

I haven't read any suggestions that they are "lying". I interpret that to mean deliberately and knowingly making statements that are untrue.

 

[Lindsay Lou Who]

I haven't read any suggestions that they are "lying". I interpret that to mean deliberately and knowingly making statements that are untrue.

Various posters have mentioned that 'we only have Leah's family's word for it that Leah and X were in a relationship' Amongst other comments. So what exactly is that implying to you? I would take that as a suggestion that they are making it up?

 

[NorthernSoul]

Not solely at you, no.

However I absolutely stand by what I previously said.

Having experienced my own fifteen year old Neice go missing and thankfully return home safely a number of weeks later, I can sympathise with some of what Leah's family and friends have been through. And I only had a glimmer of the heartache and worry they have been through. I can only imagine their despair if they feel the Police haven't looked into certain evidence they feel could help in finding Leah.
I am also of the opinion that if they are reading this thread they probably don't appreciate some of the suggestions that have been made.

JMO

I imagine if Mr. X has nothing to do with Leah's disappearance that he and his family probably don't appreciate some of the suggestions that have been made either.
As Brian says, may as well shut the whole site down if we are not able to put forward different possibilities and scenarios.
I think I am also one of the people you are having a go at. I simply stated a fact. There was no implication.

 

[HollyHunter9]

I dont believe she was having a go at anyone but quite rightly saying people should be mindful of leahs family when posting. If Mr X has nothing to hide and was only a "friend" of Leah like he claimed then any comments on an internet forum shouldn't bother him too much. Leah's family on the other hand have had to endure over 2 years of not knowing whether their daughter/sister/friend is alive or dead and still have no clue what on earth happened to her.

 

[Cherwell]

Various posters have mentioned that 'we only have Leah's family's word for it that Leah and X were in a relationship' Amongst other comments. So what exactly is that implying to you? I would take that as a suggestion that they are making it up?

Not necessarily. They may have put two and two together and made five. Or they may have been misled by someone, perhaps by Leah herself.

Saying "we only have their word for it" is not accusing them of making it up. It just means that there has been nothing to corroborate it .... as far as we know. But we don't know that it hasn't been confirmed by other people.

 

[NorthernSoul]

I dont believe she was having a go at anyone but quite rightly saying people should be mindful of leahs family when posting. If Mr X has nothing to hide and was only a "friend" of Leah like he claimed then any comments on an internet forum shouldn't bother him too much. Leah's family on the other hand have had to endure over 2 years of not knowing whether their daughter/sister/friend is alive or dead and still have no clue what on earth happened to her.

Appreciate what you are saying and I am of course mindful of Leah's family but I have to disagree that Mr. X would "not be bothered too much" about being consistently accused of being a murderer if he has nothing to do with Leah's disappearance. I know it would certainly bother me and my family.

I posted a list of snippets I found interesting which I had read here and there to stimulate discussion. Well that worked out! The reference to Leah's parents being the only ones who have given information that Leah was having an affair could be pertinent for one because, if they are wrong, Leah could have been seeing someone else. I feel that considering the possibility that someone decided to leave home for what could be any number of reasons - had a new secret boyfriend/was pregnant/wasn't getting on with family/sick of same old routine/offer of living somewhere else etc. etc. is perfectly valid. I don't really understand how it is ok to accuse Leah of taking her own life but to suggest that Leah's family were maybe over-protective or possibly got on her nerves at times is not.

The way I look at these cases is to consider all of the possibilities. I believe that is what the police do as well with a far greater amount of evidence than we ever have. They think Leah left home of her own accord. They currently have no interest in Mr. X.

 

[Woodburnbay]

Interesting. Thank you .

Great username by the way

I think if she did make herself disappear she would of had needed help for sure. Would she of been that smart not to leave any clues at all? Miss all the CCTV? Let hardly noone see her ? Leave no trace what so ever. Would a young girl be able to just do this? How would you of been able to afford to hire someone to make her disappear? Surely young teenage friends wouldn't be able to help with something like this. It seems professionally done and plus you think they would say something to someone at some point they are all young teenage girls. I don't mean this in a bad or horrible way but you can tell alot by people's appearance sometimes , how they look, their photos. Etc. She looked to be a young naive girl. She wasn't ugly or anything. I do think she looked much more mature and pretty when she was all done up in the make up pics. But I feel she does not look like someone who would be able to get all the men. I could maybe understand it more if she was a super model who all the men adored. My point is I think it's likely she was used by a older man or someone. I think she would of had to pay someone for help. I don't mean that bit in a horrible way. I think it's a real possibility but I think it would be super super hard to just start a new life and the way she done it. It must of been so professional or lucky . I think it's professional. Sucicide is also very likely and body's can be found years later as I had a family member who found someone who hung thereselves , he had been missing for many years and they found his skeleton in a rural spot of the motorway somewhere..... So many possibilities I don't think we will know unless more people come forward.. Maybe AC helped her somehow ?

If she went missing of her own accord she may well have staged a "normal Day" and was happy being seen by CCTV.
Its always a difficult area to discuss as the parents must be going through sheer hell having now lost 2 of their children and if Leah has voluntarily taken herself away from her family and home then her parents not knowing would normally prey on her conscience.
She would also have the added burden on her conscience of her brothers suicide. Would she blame herself for this or was there a reason he took his life that she would be aware of?

If she had taken herself off and is still alive, is it feasible that she could live with this guilt?

Or
For whatever reason, does this not trouble her? All my own opinions here.

 

[Onetruesaxon]

Look how easy it could be for someone in a position of trust to abduct someone

Sarah Everard murder: Wayne Couzens falsely arrested and handcuffed victim

Sarah Everard was falsely arrested and handcuffed by her killer before she was murdered, a court has heard.

Mr Little said Couzens must have taken Ms Everard's mobile phone from her and removed the Sim card, which he tried to destroy


Just got me thinking about this case and how easy it would be if someone planned to snatch someone.

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

Has Wayne C ever actually been ruled out of Leah’s disappearance? I know it is unlikely he is involved, I would like to know that it is impossible.

 

[WiseOwl]

Look how easy it could be for someone in a position of trust to abduct someone

Sarah Everard murder: Wayne Couzens falsely arrested and handcuffed victim

Sarah Everard was falsely arrested and handcuffed by her killer before she was murdered, a court has heard.

Mr Little said Couzens must have taken Ms Everard's mobile phone from her and removed the Sim card, which he tried to destroy


Just got me thinking about this case and how easy it would be if someone planned to snatch someone.

*BBM

Even easier if that someone was known to the person they planned to abduct, no issues/struggles in persuading them to enter a vehicle.

 

[Woodburnbay]

If that's directed at me, I think I made every effort to explain that (while the police undoubtedly did regard them as potential suspects whether they - or you - are aware of it) any personal involvement in her disappearance is at the extreme end of a hypothetical spectrum of possibilities. Much more likely, as I think I made very clear, is the fact that the guilt, shame and sense of impotence that comes hand in hand with having a family member missing is apt to skew ones perception of how best to make sense of incomprehensible events. It is the perception (on this thread) that people are accusing them of lying that is a problem, not the acknowledgement that they are genuinely not the best people to be weighing up what they have come to see as evidence in Leah's case.

I am well placed to know how true that is as I come from a family that has been similarly affected.

And I think - or at least hope - that if Leah's parents are reading, they will appreciate the rigour that some of us are trying to bring to our analysis of the facts of the case.

JMO

@JuicyLucy I do agree, not only the police but anyone wanting to help should be seen as asking questions, sometimes awkward ones, in the spirit of being helpful.
As long as they are sensitively put and with respect to all.

 

[Woodburnbay]

I imagine if Mr. X has nothing to do with Leah's disappearance that he and his family probably don't appreciate some of the suggestions that have been made either.
As Brian says, may as well shut the whole site down if we are not able to put forward different possibilities and scenarios.
I think I am also one of the people you are having a go at. I simply stated a fact. There was no implication.

We do have to be respectful of any named persons and in particular we must include Mr X in this.

The police do not believe him to be in the frame, the believe he had nothing to do with this.

Mr X could, as someone suggested, have been a well meaning colleague who was supporting Leah with a problem. He could have been an older caring shoulder.

Leah Brother may well have added 2+2 and arrived at the wrong answer. He may have come across them sat having a discussion that was completely innocent.

Not every older man who offers help or counselling to a younger female should be seen as having an ulterior sexual motive. There are some kind samaritans in our world.

One final thought-Mr X could have been framed as a "Patsy" to take the scent away from the real culprit.

 

[BrianJohnson]

Police should definitely be investigating Wayne Couzens whereabouts on the day Leah went missing, he often used to guard at Chequers and MK not that far away and given Leah wasn’t the most worldly of girls I could imagine her getting into a ‘police car’ with a large intimidating guy flashing his warrant card

if he could fool savvy streetwise Sarah he certainly could Leah

i doubt Sarah his only victim