GUILTY UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London, Clapham Common area, 3 Mar 2021 *Life sentence* #16

[Newthoughts]

Some of us mentioned this early on, but were shouted down by accusations of "victim blaming".
No one was "blaming" her, but it is a fact that the actions of a victim can be a contributory factor in the outcome. And the prosecution has made that point: that if Sarah had not broken any rules she might have had the confidence to resist. We can, as the prosecution has done, acknowledge this without attributing blame.

Someone asked earlier about police officers working alone. While we would normally expect police officers to be operating in pairs, Sarah would have assumed that he was unaccompanied because of the need for social distancing. This was another way in which Couzens was aided by the pandemic.

I remember and agree. They were strange times and there were minor breaches of lockdown rules. It isn't victim blaming to state facts and I agree it will have contributed to her nervousness and compliance when questioned.

Regarding him being alone - I'm not sure that would have been a red flag for me even in non covid times. The warrant card would have been enough for me to believe he was a acting within the law. It's only from being here that I've realised that a lone officer is not the norm

 

[Lubilu]

“It’s something that will stay with me for the rest of my life.”

A senior investigator on Sarah Everard's case, former DCI Simon Harding, says police officers “do not view” Wayne Couzens as a police officer and he “should never have been near a uniform”.

video clip on Twitter and towards bottom of their article Sarah Everard: Images show victim with her killer Wayne Couzens moments before he abducted her, court hears

BBM. I don't like this narrative. Yes, he unequivocally should never have been let near a uniform, that much is clear now. But he WAS a police officer, whether other cops want to come to terms with that or not - we can't just 'not view him as a police officer' as if being a police officer is some infallible, god-given concept. It's a job, and it's the job he held.

 

[BrianJohnson]

I would be very surprised if Sarah is his first murder, really think he is a serial killer

The fact that he calmly and casually goes to shops, coffee shops, service stations after taking Sarah says to me immediately that he is used to killing and that this is not the first time

 

[NottReds50]

I remember and agree. They were strange times and there were minor breaches of lockdown rules. It isn't victim blaming to state facts and I agree it will have contributed to her nervousness and compliance when questioned.

Regarding him being alone - I'm not sure that would have been a red flag for me even in non covid times. The warrant card would have been enough for me to believe he was a acting within the law. It's only from being here that I've realised that a lone officer is not the norm

It was also that no one really knew the rules, public or police - and that was a big issue.

Police can be alone in normal times, rapid response officers generally patrol alone. But again, how well known is that?

 

[KensingtonandChelsea]

He was very sloppy though, hiring the car in his own name and being seemingly unaware of traffic cams/bus cams that were catching his every move. The police pieced together a pretty good picture of the timeline. I don’t think he’s a serial killer, I think this was his first.

 

[tedtink]

I would be very surprised if Sarah is his first murder, really think he is a serial killer

The fact that he calmly and casually goes to shops, coffee shops, service stations after taking Sarah says to me immediately that he is used to killing and that this is not the first time

I don't think he's a serial killer.
He's not smart enough to cover his tracks and has easily been caught for SE's murder. If anything he would have got more 'clever' as time went on if he is a serial killer IMO.

I do think he's able to compartmentalize the so called 'normal' aspects of his life from the sinister side though.

And his crimes escalated, allegedly, from what we've read, as per the norm in these types of cases.

JMO

 

[cestmoi]

I would be very surprised if Sarah is his first murder, really think he is a serial killer

The fact that he calmly and casually goes to shops, coffee shops, service stations after taking Sarah says to me immediately that he is used to killing and that this is not the first time

The profiles he created on dating sites... I'm left wondering if he had any dates, and what those women observed about him. And whether they survived it.

 

[Rusty Braincells]

I agree it was his first murder most likely, but statistically, he is slightly older to be on his first sex-motivated murder.

Not sure how much speculation is allowed but I think it is possible that this was his first killing of this type, where he had become bolder and used his police credentials in central London in this way.

As he was a regular user of prostitutes, I would look carefully at any unsolved murders of sex workers in the region that were perhaps lower-profile sadly than what happened to Sarah.

 

[Dotta]

Moment killer cop stopped Sarah Everard on street | Daily Mail Online

 

[BrianJohnson]

One case they should be looking at imho is that of Leah Croucher, he used to be based at Chequers a lot and MK not far away at all, she disappeared in broad daylight

From what I have read of the case she seemed the trusting sort who would get in a car if he flashed a warrant card and told her she was under arrest on some ficticious charge

 

[Itsgrimupnorth]

I would be very surprised if Sarah is his first murder, really think he is a serial killer

The fact that he calmly and casually goes to shops, coffee shops, service stations after taking Sarah says to me immediately that he is used to killing and that this is not the first time

He was very sloppy though, hiring the car in his own name and being seemingly unaware of traffic cams/bus cams that were catching his every move. The police pieced together a pretty good picture of the timeline. I don’t think he’s a serial killer, I think this was his first.

Agree with the second comment here. The execution of his plans were sloppy. It wasn't hard to track his cars, his movements, his visits to shops or other sites. His phone pinging cells etc. I believe he showed escalating disturbing patterns of behaviour with alleged previous sexual incidents such as exposure etc. These sorts of things should never be taken lightly and are frequently seen prior to individuals escalating to rape or murder. One thing might be true is that if he hadn't been caught maybe there would have been more eventually.

 

[Alethea]

Just sobbing at my desk reading Sarah's mom's statement. I can't believe she has to go through this. And to have no answers or explanation is just an insult on top of injury.

 

[Rosegold68]

listening him lie about the romanians and the van is just so frustrating

he must have known how implausible it was. what a stupid story to come up with. He is visibly anxious and all i thought watching him struggle was "GOOD!!!'

 

[tallmansix]

Shocking day catching up on this since I was last on this thread back in March as it all unfolded.

Makes we wonder if a review of police procedures regarding plain clothes / unmarked cars is needed in terms of transport after arrest?

I'm aware of the advice when a motorist is being signalled to stop by unmarked police vehicle. I've always known that you are perfectly within your rights to acknowledge and then proceed to a public place or police station if you don't feel safe. I was also under the impression that unmarked police cars should have at least one uniformed officer to comply with the law when stopping vehicles not sure how this applies to this case though.

I understand that plain clothes police do need to make arrests but I'm thinking some rights about being transported in a marked police vehicle or accompanied by a uniformed officer may make the public feel safer and provide some protection against this albeit rare but serious misuse of police powers.

 

[proclee]

See I’ve lived in London my whole life and I don’t believe officers being alone is the norm. I can’t recall any instances where I’ve witnessed an officer alone in a car whilst actively on duty.
For their own security in terms of violence against them, also in terms of false accusations against them.
In my teenage years I was frequently witness to male friends being stopped & searched, this was never done alone. Community patrols regularly patrol where I live and they’re always in pairs. When our house was burgled they came to take a statement in a pair. Maybe there are occasions they work alone but within the Met I’ve never witnessed it myself.
Even so, if I myself was in Sarah’s position I’m not sure in the heat of the moment I would of registered him being alone & questioned it.

 

[jimbob5]

RIP Sarah. The details are horrific, but aside from them there is an element to this crime that must be making the MET (and the police in general) very, very nervous. WC was a serving police officer who used a legitimate ID card and police-issued equipment to ‘arrest’ his victim. Why, in the wake of that, should anybody in future cooperate with a plain-clothes officer?

After this guy & that killer in the 1980's in the US with the flashing light pretending to be a cop I would recommend not to comply-if it is genuine you can always plea your case in court with this guy as an example. Unless it is an actual police car then don't stop & if somebody approaches you coming out of a plain car claiming they are a cop & you have broken the law, tell them to get stuffed & dial 999.

 

[MrsWatson]

I don't think he was a serial killer. I think he had some very strong urges that he acted on previously, but this was his ultimate fantasy. I wonder about the sex workers, any abuse/assault or what he was interested in. I think he's had other experiences, but I think he was just overcome this time. He planned it, because he felt powerless to do otherwise, but he was sloppy. Very sloppy. Like he knew he was going to get caught anyway, so he made minimum effort to conceal his actions. He was going to do it and it was worth the consequences. I think he was a sexual sadist.

All of the above is MOO.

If you are interested in reading about what motivates guys like this, there is a very good book called The Evil That Men Do, by Roy Hazelwood. He's one of the founders of the FBI behavioral and profiling unit. Must warn it is a very dark book, does not mince words, but very insightful and interesting.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Evil-That-Men-Hazelwoods-Predators/dp/0312970609

 

[tallmansix]

See I’ve lived in London my whole life and I don’t believe officers being alone is the norm. I can’t recall any instances where I’ve witnessed an officer alone in a car whilst actively on duty.
For their own security in terms of violence against them, also in terms of false accusations against them.
In my teenage years I was frequently witness to male friends being stopped & searched, this was never done alone. Community patrols regularly patrol where I live and they’re always in pairs. When our house was burgled they came to take a statement in a pair. Maybe there are occasions they work alone but within the Met I’ve never witnessed it myself.
Even so, if I myself was in Sarah’s position I’m not sure in the heat of the moment I would of registered him being alone & questioned it.

I've been pulled over by a lone police officer twice, so I wouldn't say it was unusual. One time was a lone female police officer and the other time a lone male officer - I must say no charges or tickets in either case though!

 

[Itsgrimupnorth]

I've been pulled over by a lone police twice, so I wouldn't say it was unusual. One time was a lone female police officer and the other time a lone male officer - I must say no charges or tickets in either case though!

Set against the context of police cuts and covid it's totally believable and most people probably would never question it especially as the adrenaline of the situation kicks in.

 

[thatssoamy]

He was clearly escalating in his behaviours and was being public about it. I think this is his first murder but definitely not his first rape. I wouldn't be surprised if he was violent and abusive to the sex workers he visited.