TX - Uvalde; Robb Elementary, 19 children and 3 adults killed, shooter dead, 24 MAY 2022 #3

[Seattle1]

I can't remember whether the doors had inside or outside locks. All I remember is Pete Arredondo tried out a bunch of keys and then they didn't need the keys.

^^RSBM

Thanks, @Friday Fan for the Aerials.

I find the situation with the keys very odd. I don't know if the police were trying to cover for each other about teachers locking the doors or if Chief PA was simply procrastinating as long as possible to avoid entering the classroom with the shooter and the victims.

IMO, very few doors (if any) in the subject corridor were actually locked on May 24. If a door is not locked, a key is not required.

I never saw Chief PA during the entire 70 min video I watched (out of camera view) but at about 25 minutes into the video, I did see the Uvalde Police SWAT Commander (beige officer) and a small team of officers enter the building and open a classroom door located near the exit, (around the corner from the subject corridor). The SWAT Commander turned the door handle and pulled the door towards him. He did not use a key. IMO, the door was obviously unlocked.

When the classroom door was opened, it was dark inside the room. I saw the lights soon go on as a couple of officers entered the room. In a matter of seconds, lights were turned off while officers exited as fast as they entered the room.

I think officers had been outside the building, peering inside the windows of this classroom, and wanted to confirm if it was unoccupied/empty.

IMO, the classroom doors that were locked at Robb on May 24 were most likely those rooms a distance from the subject corridor where teachers had enough time to secure their doors since the shooter never came close or approached their rooms. MOO

 

[Wise Old Owl]

In Uvalde, closeness complicates accountability for shooting

In the aftermath of the massacre at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, families of victims and many residents are navigating mixed emotions as they channel their grief and fury into demands for change

abcnews.go.com

Quote:
Family ties and political struggles go back generations in Uvalde, a community where nearly three-quarters of the residents are Hispanic. Locals had largely revered the police before the shooting. Uvalde's leaders, many of whom are white, share church pews with their fiercest critics. And demanding accountability can mean calling for the job of your friend, neighbor or employer.
It’s a town with a “power structure” and “unwritten rules” that make it hard for many people to speak out, said Michael Ortiz, a local college professor who moved to Uvalde 13 years ago and said his tenure allows him to be vocal in a way that’s not viable for many of the community’s mostly working-class residents.
“Someone’s boss might not like that,” Ortiz said. “They are afraid even to march.”
“Trying to find the right time, the right balance out of respect, I did not do well,” said Harrell, who is white and spoke in an auditorium named for his father, who was also superintendent.


AS I have been saying - this is small town and they write their own rules (whether those rules are "legal" or not). It boils down to a culture that is unfair to most of the regular working-class residents. I truly feel for the people of Uvalde. The heat coming down on the "powerful elite" of that town is warranted.


JMHO

 

[drama_farmer]

Yes, that is correct @SuziQ .

It's an old school and reported earlier that the design with locks on the exterior was made after considering teachers could be locked out of the classroom if the lock was on the interior.

I was hoping that improvements were made at other schools since "Parkland" but it seems that Uvalde (and how many more school districts??) didn't learn from that massacre.

I've been watching the penalty phase for the Parkland shooter, and all the doors involved in that mass killing also were locked /unlocked with a key from the outside (hallway side) of classrooms.

I'm shocked that schools see no problem with a large glass window in the middle of a classroom door. The Parkland shooter killed and wounded victims in the hallways and killed and wounded victims inside locked classrooms by shooting through the windows in the doors.

One of the teachers in one of those Parkland classrooms testified that it would have been easy for the shooter to simply reach through the blasted out window, unlock the door and enter the classroom.

Apparently, the door can be unlocked from the inside without needing a key!!!

 

[GoBuckeyes]

In Uvalde, closeness complicates accountability for shooting

In the aftermath of the massacre at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, families of victims and many residents are navigating mixed emotions as they channel their grief and fury into demands for change

abcnews.go.com

Quote:
Family ties and political struggles go back generations in Uvalde, a community where nearly three-quarters of the residents are Hispanic. Locals had largely revered the police before the shooting. Uvalde's leaders, many of whom are white, share church pews with their fiercest critics. And demanding accountability can mean calling for the job of your friend, neighbor or employer.
It’s a town with a “power structure” and “unwritten rules” that make it hard for many people to speak out, said Michael Ortiz, a local college professor who moved to Uvalde 13 years ago and said his tenure allows him to be vocal in a way that’s not viable for many of the community’s mostly working-class residents.
“Someone’s boss might not like that,” Ortiz said. “They are afraid even to march.”
“Trying to find the right time, the right balance out of respect, I did not do well,” said Harrell, who is white and spoke in an auditorium named for his father, who was also superintendent.


AS I have been saying - this is small town and they write their own rules (whether those rules are "legal" or not). It boils down to a culture that is unfair to most of the regular working-class residents. I truly feel for the people of Uvalde. The heat coming down on the "powerful elite" of that town is warranted.


JMHO

He's only been there 13 years, but he feels his words represent the entire community? How incredibly elitist, imo. So, he knows that they are voiceless because they are working class? Again, how elitist. imo

 

[Wise Old Owl]

He's only been there 13 years, but he feels his words represent the entire community? How incredibly elitist, imo. So, he knows that they are voiceless because they are working class? Again, how elitist. imo

I didn't take it that way. He knows he is in a position that "can't be retaliated against" because he has tenure at the college. He could possibly take some heat though. He's been there long enough to see some things first hand. What I took from it was that the majority of working class people in the town work in jobs that are owned by "long generations" of people. Meaning, the "founding families" of the area. These families are usually wealthy (because they've owned generations of the businesses in town), they are known to hire family (not the "family" but more like they will hire a former foreman's son/daughter because the former was a good employee). They will hire friends of the family (especially the younger generations - as they need jobs) - as in owner's son goes to school with "Joey". Joey is a good kid that needs a job because Joey's family is working-class. These employees are grateful for having jobs but know if they speak up against anything happening in the town - well, it will be "frowned upon" when they go back to work. A lot of the "founding families" also hold seats of political clout as well - albeit, county commission, city commission, school board, even LE. They know everything that happens and who was involved. Its tough (almost impossible) in a town like that to "work your way up" when you are starting at the bottom and you can just forget it if you or any of your family get in trouble or ruffle any feathers.

In the article it says that over 300 new voters have registered - people that have never bothered before. Why bother - when you already know who is going to be elected? So maybe, just maybe they will get a foot in the door and be able to start voicing concerns, ideas, etc.

Shining light on the way SOME small towns operate has always been eye-opening, and now you have such a horrendous national crime take place there - well the lights turn into spotlights and a lot more is revealed.

But I don't believe this guy is an elitist.



JMHO

 

[Arkay]

Uvalde school district suspends Robb Elementary School principal

Mandy Gutierrez, principal of Robb Elementary School, was suspended with pay Monday, her attorney, Ricardo Cedillo, confirmed to ABC News.

abcnews.go.com

Great, I hope all those heads keep rolling.

The principal, Pete Arrendondo, the other LE, they're not the ones who murdered these children and teachers. IMO we cannot forget that.

But the principal before the tragedy, and Arrendondo after, certainly dropped the ball and allowed this tragedy to become worse.

IMO

 

[kaen]

Uvalde school district suspends Robb Elementary School principal

Mandy Gutierrez, principal of Robb Elementary School, was suspended with pay Monday, her attorney, Ricardo Cedillo, confirmed to ABC News.

abcnews.go.com

Great, I hope all those heads keep rolling.

The principal, Pete Arrendondo, the other LE, they're not the ones who murdered these children and teachers. IMO we cannot forget that.

But the principal before the tragedy, and Arrendondo after, certainly dropped the ball and allowed this tragedy to become worse.

IMO

Agreed. It is shocking that it took this long. Reports about non-compliance communicated to the principal and requests for repairs to broken locks have been in the news from early on. Now, the School Board has some answering to do and it seems from this article that families are setting their sites on them, as they should IMHO.

It is important to note that we do not know who is in charge of the buildings and grounds. I doubt that would be individual principals (who are supposed to be dogged in getting problems fixed) but rather the Superintendent and the board. In this case they have not yet taken responsibility. It is time to get a published chain of command for who was responsible for the Chief, the maintaining of the properties, and updates to physical plant (ie, the low fence that was easily scalable).

While no one can really ever forecast a tragedy, there are standards of good practice that have been accepted: drills, maintenance reviews, and clear communication among all who are charged with the security of the students and buildings they are housed in.

I ache for these families as they have to fight and fight to get accountability.

 

[Dotta]

"After initially being put on paid leave as the report was being prepared, the Uvalde school district police chief, Pete Arredondo, saw his pay halted on Friday, five days after the report’s release."

The school board had called a meeting on Saturday to consider Arredondo’s firing but ultimately postponed it, citing “due process requirements” and a request from Arredondo’s attorney."

Principal of Uvalde elementary school suspended in wake of deadly shooting

Mandy Gutierrez put on administrative leave, as 77-page report details multiple failures from police and other Texas officials

www.theguardian.com

 

[Dotta]

"The Uvalde city council has promised to investigate every single police officer who was involved in the botched response to the Robb Elementary School massacre that left 19 students and two teachers dead.

There have already been a number of suspensions of senior officers and officials.

Now attention is falling on rank-and-file officers and their conduct at the scene.

Uvalde Police Department has 39 sworn officers, and the 25 of them who responded to the shooting will be interviewed by Prado, King said."

EVERY officer involved in Uvalde school shooting to be investigated

The Uvalde Police Department is under intense scrutiny over its actions on May 24, when 80 minutes passed from first reports of a school shooting until the gunman was eventually shot dead.

www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[sds71]

CNN Exclusive: 'I will second-guess myself for the rest of my life.' Uvalde principal defends actions on day of shooting | CNN

Robb Elementary Principal Mandy Gutierrez defended herself Wednesday against criticism about her handling of school security before the massacre that left 19 children and two teachers dead.

www.cnn.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1552393231404597253

 

[PrairieWind]

Well it sounds like everyone is just going to point fingers at everyone else. So whether the door to rm 111 was faulty or not is in dispute. But it should be pretty easy to answer that question. Lets just look at the door handle, does it lock or not? But there also did appear to be a culture of leaving outside doors unlocked and/or propped open. That just can't happen in this day and age.
As for the principals decision to not use the intercom but instead rely on the message app, I think that is another failure. Schools here use similar apps and that is a terrible way to spread information in this instance. Each teacher would have to have their phone on them, which is generally frowned on. Plus it takes a bit of time to get the message sent out.

 

[Friday Fan]

She does have a point about the doors. Uvalde is on hardpan and foundations move. When that happens, doors don't behave the way they should. The Robb extension was built sometime between 1995 and 2004.

We purchased our home when it was 15 years old. We were already having to lift up some doors to get them to latch.

 

[drama_farmer]

According to the article linked in post #508, Uvalde is planning to institute additional security measures before the start of school, including hiring 10 more officers, installing bulletproof glass, adding metal detectors, etc. As much as this seems to be a case of "shutting the barn door after the cow has left," I'm sure it will help the students and parents in some way feel a bit less afraid.

Looking at the situation objectively, the chance of a similar incident happening within that school district is unlikely. There's a much better chance that a similar attack will occur "elsewhere" in another school in America. There's always enough money to hire more employees and make infrastructure/safety improvements in reaction to a life-changing event.

If I were a parent of a student anywhere else in the country, I guess I'd suggest that changes be made before "the cow gets out" in the next school.
MOO

 

[Seattle1]

CNN Exclusive: 'I will second-guess myself for the rest of my life.' Uvalde principal defends actions on day of shooting | CNN

Robb Elementary Principal Mandy Gutierrez defended herself Wednesday against criticism about her handling of school security before the massacre that left 19 children and two teachers dead.

www.cnn.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1552393231404597253

I hate to see this kind of tunnel vision focused on Room door #111 for a couple of reasons.

Just as it's undisputed that teachers and staff consistently propped open exterior doors against school safety policy, it's also true that some of the exterior doors did not latch properly if left to close on their own --i.e., even a properly locked exterior door ocassionally needed to be pulled firmly shut for the lock to engage.

We have a similar issue with the door lock to Room 111. There's clearly evidence that the door did lock, but just like the exterior building doors, it needed to be double-checked that the lock engaged. IMO, this is a native soil or foundation issue and not a matter of insubordination.

I also agree that there's inconsistent information on whether or not the shooter entered the subject rooms via room 111 or 112.

I personally recall a child survivor recounting how the shooter entered through door 112 which if true, means either the door was unlocked or like the examples above, the locked door to the room was not pulled firmly shut where the lock engaged securely.

It seems to me that Principal Gutierrez was either unfamiliar with the intricacies of the Robb Elementary facility or was unable to communicate these same quirks to the House Committee and should make an effort to do so.

Relative to the breach in school security as outlined above-- seems to me that the school needs to adopt a zero-tolerance policy where propping an exterior door open for any reason is cause for dismissal.

Lastly, IMO, if the exterior building doors are consistently maintained secure, the classroom doors will be eliminated as the first line of defense between a shooter and students and teachers, and where a reasonable error factor will not prove fatal. MOO

 

[Dotta]

Uvalde gun maker defends his business as Democrats grill manufacturers

Gun makers defended their product on Wednesday during a tense House hearing on mass shootings, saying 'murders are responsible' for the deaths.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Dotta]

Robb Elementary principal breaks silence in CNN interview​

Video: Robb Elementary principal breaks silence about Uvalde shooting | CNN

CNN's Rosa Flores speaks with Robb Elementary School Principal Mandy Gutierrez about the deadly shooting at her school.

edition.cnn.com

 

[Seattle1]

Robb Elementary principal breaks silence in CNN interview​

Video: Robb Elementary principal breaks silence about Uvalde shooting | CNN

CNN's Rosa Flores speaks with Robb Elementary School Principal Mandy Gutierrez about the deadly shooting at her school.

edition.cnn.com

I hope this inquiry moves on to making the police that failed the victims and their community accountable.

Principal Guiterrez states the exterior school door was locked at all times and does not know how the shooter was able to enter the school building.

I mentioned earlier that based on her comments, the Principal did not appear familiar with her facility. IMO, it's probably more that she's been coached on how to respond.

We all know that the door used by the gunman was earlier propped open, and closed by a teacher that kicked the rock away only minutes before the shooter entered the building. It's believed the teacher didn't pull the door handle shut to engage the lock.

 

[sds71]

Uvalde shooting: Robb Elementary School principal reinstated days after suspension

Mandy Gutierrez was reinstated after disputing the key findings that a "culture of complacency" had developed at the school that allowed a gunman to enter the school.

abc7chicago.com

 

[Friday Fan]

Uvalde shooting: Robb Elementary School principal reinstated days after suspension

Mandy Gutierrez was reinstated after disputing the key findings that a "culture of complacency" had developed at the school that allowed a gunman to enter the school.

abc7chicago.com

TBH: They would have had to have found a new principal.
They are already getting ready for school to start in 6 weeks.
Alot gets done now.
At this point in time, it would have been a challenge in a small town.
Who would want to take on that task?

 

[Dotta]

Who would want to take on that task?

Absolutely!
It sounds like a suicide mission.