Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #73

[FromGermany1]

But those are only guesses? IF those photos are deemed to be accurately edited to 9:37am, that is the last time we're aware of, I think(?), for FM's timeline to have corroboration (assuming FM was the one who took them). And that would give almost an hour before FD arrived back, and FM told him upon his arrival that W was there only 5 minutes before that, and AMS came afterward, as she could already hear FD yelling in the background for him (and she was seen there by the time FGM knew anything). Wasn't it said (by the foster family) that he disappeared just minutes after the photos were taken? imo.

bbm
I can't remember, that the foster family said so. But it would make sense to me, when little W was running onto the lawn after the pics were taken, because he seemed to be "not amused" at all about pics taken of him and maybe was happy, the session had ended finally.

 

[SouthAussie]

Why was this investigation team so divided? Was it all political or did some find the investigation methods and suspects they were going after, flawed? Unorthodox methods used to prove theories as opposed to straight out looking at the evidence in front of them? That dig last year should have been done within the 1st year of WT going missing. IMO

Because there is not enough evidence to convict anyone, or to say 100% (or even 51%) that they are guilty. So everyone forms their own opinions. Heck, Lambert strongly thought it could have been postie. That is how varied the opinions are.

There is evidence against other POIs, as insubstantial as the evidence against FM.

imo

 

[BigT]

the statements of police “we know” do not sound like opinion, and magistrate who is asked to judge did FM lie to CC commented, “this could just be to put pressure on FM in relation to WT disappearance”, to which the police answer was no it is not, but if it assists……. so what is the “intelligence“ received? (And why so late)

 

[FromGermany1]

FGM and the FD, but neither of them can because the FFFC disappeared from their view and everyone elses view it seems until 10.35-10.40 am .............that's really unfortunate for her.

Very unfortunate, you are right!
The FD (MFC) himself "disappeared" also during that time to his so important video conference, or didn't he? Unfortunate for the FFC to have a mother, sitting on the patio unaware of all things happening around the house corner (because of no view possible) and to have a husband, who was absent for video call/newspapers/prescription drugs. Unfortunate also for FFC to have a mother exact in an age, where you can easily claim, she is not able to remember all things, which just happened. Unfortunate to have a mother, who is easily to get confused by 2 children and 2 adults, who are running around/playing here and there (driveway/patio/tree/lawn)/cars driving away/cars coming back/using toilet/brewing tea AND babbling/shouting the whole time with their 4 different voices. One could say, it was the storm before the quiet, in reversal of the wellknown saying.
Unfortunate, this morning at Benaroon 48 in September 2014. And somehow surreal, how only one hour could be packed with so much coincidences and happenings, until little W was suddenly gone. IMO MOO

 

[JLZ]

It's easy for him to be critical, I guess. If only the perps would own it.

I wasn't having a go at him. I couldn't read the article and I was wondering what else he said. I ask myself what I'd like investigated, what opportunities remain. And I don't know. I look forward to the coronial report and hope it straightens out the timeline.

 

[FromGermany1]

I think the PR team is doing a great job of diverting the conversation and speculation away from the fosters.

FM was found not guilty of 'deliberately' lying to the crime commission, period. Even though it was reported from the hearing that she indeed admitted in a phone conversation shortly afterward that she'd used the wooden spoon, was heard asking the child where it was, etc., the only issue at question was whether she deliberately lied about ever hitting a child with a wooden spoon. Not that she in fact DID it, or even that she in fact lied about it, but that she 'deliberately' lied about it. But from the judge not being able to 100% guarantee that FM lied 'deliberately' during the CC hearing, some seem to translate that to: the judge believes FM.
"Magistrate Miranda Moody said she could not "discount the possibility she was mistaken and did not deliberately lie" to the commission..." William Tyrrell's foster mum found not guilty of lying to NSW Crime Commission

Which not-guilty-for-deliberately-lying-verdict prompted a speech from FM to media after court, asking police to focus on finding out what happened to William. As if that isn't what police have been doing all along? As if, just because police are focusing on FM, they are therefore not focusing on finding out what happened to William?
"“She’s found me not guilty of lying to the crime commission. “With this behind me, I hope that police focus on finding William and what happened to him.”" https://www.theaustralian.com.au/br...n/news-story/2945626eb390eab1a09aeb0d3ad27e6a

And then an ex cop who's been writing about improprieties in policing for many years, is quoted in an article, saying police have 'stuffed up' the 'fruitless' WT investigation, even though he's not involved in working the case, because they're expected to solve crimes even though they're not actually solved, for political reasons. 'There's been a major stuff up and police have been expected to get outcomes that aren't possible,' he told the Daily Telegraph.

Which all seems to have culminated in a dailymail article inferring from all of that, that :

• Comments follow foster mother being cleared of involvement in secret hearing

even though FM has not been cleared of 'involvement', she has only been 'cleared' of 'deliberately lying' to the CC, and she wasn't cleared of anything in a secret hearing, she was 'cleared' in a regular courtroom after being charged by police for what she said during that secret hearing. Words matter, Daily Mail!
Police 'stuffed up' William Tyrrell investigation, expert says

All imo.

Miranda Moody – has been a barrister at Forbes Chambers for 12 years, working almost exclusively in criminal law and appearing frequently in the Local, Children’s and District Courts. She has also been an associate to District Court judges and has worked as a television presenter, a newspaper photographer and a personal assistant to the late artist Brett Whiteley.

https://inbrief.nswbar.asn.au/posts/bb24741e67431b27a08039cbb342d626/attachment/5_new_magistrates_bios.pdf

Miranda Moody

Ms Moody was an associate to a number of judges in the District Court of NSW for several years before becoming a barrister in 2006.

She has represented clients in cases ranging from drink driving, common assault and drug possession in the Local Court up to jury trials for serious offences in the District Court.

She has also appeared for clients before the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC) and is a member of the Legal Aid Commission’s General Criminal Law Panel.

Criminal Lawyers Appointed as Local Court Magistrates - Downing Centre Court

 

[iiiii's]

Because there is not enough evidence to convict anyone, or to say 100% (or even 51%) that they are guilty. So everyone forms their own opinions. Heck, Lambert thought it could have been postie. That is how varied the opinions are.

There is evidence against other POIs, as insubstantial as the evidence against FM.

imo

FFFC being one of the last people to see WT at the scene he disappeared from, and does not have a corroborated alibi at the exact time WT went missing, is not insubstantial and still relevant today. The other suspects we have seen in comparison to her over the years, are insubstantial.

If the evidence said, look at the postie, I would look at her and I wanted her looked at in particular considering her routine had changed that morning and she shared an issue with the FGM about one of the neighbors and also because the neighbors thought they heard her come up the street at her regular time....

Was one of the political reasons that this crime wasn't solved because a government department wanted the crime and outcome covered up and someone kept running interference, taking the team down paths they didn't want to go, insisting on interviewing the FP's because of his colleagues suspicions but really didn't challenge them at all? MOO
IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

<RSBM>

Was one of the political reasons that this crime wasn't solved because a government department wanted the crime and outcome covered up and someone kept running interference, taking the team down paths they didn't want to go, insisting on interviewing the FP's because of his colleagues suspicions but really didn't challenge them at all? MOO
IMO

No. imo

It was more about officers jockeying for position, recently. And them wanting to send the case to Cold Case because enough time had been spent on it, as per Scott Cook.

 

[Olivia Reed]

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/police-interview-with-william-tyrrell-neighbour-described-as-deeply-troubling/news-story/0065afefa387da4d1ffef1a6550a3877

The inquest has heard William Tyrrell vanished between 10am and 10.30am on the morning, although senior investigating detective Sergeant Laura Beacroft said she “personally” put in closer to 10.05am.

Here is one of many MSM links that reported from the inquest that the timeline for when WT was adjusted from 10.30 to approx. 10.10 am. FFFC says she noticed after about 5 minutes she couldn't hear him and went to check on him.

In the FGM walk through she states they were on the patio between 9 and 10 am, so taking into consideration all those factors, that's my estimate.

Just because WT was not seen by the people on the patio when he went around the corner, does not mean that he was missing. The FGM and the FD did not know that WT was missing until approxiamately 10.35 am, nor did the MFC. IMO

Is there any documentation of when or the exact time the FFC got in her Mother’s car and drove to the riding school, stopped put her head out car window to look for WT, realising he wasn’t there, turn around and drive back to Benaroon Drive?

IMM -it must have been between 10am when she goes to look for him and 10.35am when the MFC got back and FGM is informed WT is missing.

How much time did it take FFC to do that?

How long was the FFC gone from Benaroon drive during that vital period WT disappeared?

IMO- This is a very strange reaction, for a parent to drive away from the place you are visiting with your Foster Child who does not know the area well, nor does he wander…. given that WT was previously playing hide and seek, given the size of the FGM home and vast area surrounding the property, would you not immediately spend that precious time searching the FGM house, garden and door knock other houses in the street and ask the FGM and Lindsay to help find him??

 

[Couldbe]

Is there any documentation of when or the exact time the FFC got in her Mother’s car and drove to the riding school, stopped put her head out car window to look for WT, realising he wasn’t there, turn around and drive back to Benaroon Drive?

IMM -it must have been between 10am when she goes to look for him and 10.35am when the MFC got back and FGM is informed WT is missing.

How much time did it take FFC to do that?

How long was the FFC gone from Benaroon drive during that vital period WT disappeared?

IMO- This is a very strange reaction, for a parent to drive away from the place you are visiting with your Foster Child who does not know the area well, nor does he wander…. given that WT was previously playing hide and seek, given the size of the FGM home and vast area surrounding the property, would you not immediately spend that precious time searching the FGM house, garden and door knock other houses in the street and ask the FGM and Lindsay to help find him??

This is extracted from drsleuths post:
Feb 28, 2020
Here is my attempt at a Timeline
Taken from evidence I heard, & some from CO's book <modsnip>

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #52

10:30-10:56 : FFC ran to AMS’s house, asked if saw little boy in spiderman suit? , AMS said no, suggested bus stop on Crn Benaroon Drive & Batar Creek Rd, FFC ran to bus stop , heard the “scream” , ran back to # 48 Benaroon Drive, got in FGM car & drove looking for WT, drove down Batar Ck Rd, thought he could not have gotten that far, went back to FGM house, ran inside & got her mobile phone, saw message from MFC, she ran out to driveway , just as MFC drove in & asked him “ Have you got William?” “ No , why would I have William?” . I can’t find him the FFC said. MFC took off frantically looking for William.

Edited to suggest that FFC's drive in FFGM's Mazda must have occurred before 10:30 ...because MFC arrived back at Benaroon at approx 10:35 ... meaning that FFC's activities would have taken approx 20 mins.

 

[iiiii's]

Is there any documentation of when or the exact time the FFC got in her Mother’s car and drove to the riding school, stopped put her head out car window to look for WT, realising he wasn’t there, turn around and drive back to Benaroon Drive?

IMM -it must have been between 10am when she goes to look for him and 10.35am when the MFC got back and FGM is informed WT is missing.

How much time did it take FFC to do that?

How long was the FFC gone from Benaroon drive during that vital period WT disappeared?

IMO- This is a very strange reaction, for a parent to drive away from the place you are visiting with your Foster Child who does not know the area well, nor does he wander…. given that WT was previously playing hide and seek, given the size of the FGM home and vast area surrounding the property, would you not immediately spend that precious time searching the FGM house, garden and door knock other houses in the street and ask the FGM and Lindsay to help find him??

I agree that I think that is the time range she drove her mother's car, based on her evidence at the inquest and the accounts of other neighbors who encountered her from 10.40 am onwards, no one mentioned her leaving the street in her mother's car. IMO

 

[SLouTh]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

I did post earlier about immunity being offered, which was not good cop, bad cop, it was offered by Legal Council Sophie Callan, and the NSW Crime Commissioner Michael Barnes, himself….



Extraordinary details have emerged about how NSW Crime Commissioner Michael Barnes and counsel assisting Sophie Callan piled pressure onto the 57-year-old, who cannot be named, in closed door hearings last November.
Snip >>>>>
Ms Callan then told her: 'They can handle it in a way that does not connect you'.

William Tyrrell: Inside foster mother's secret grilling

The state's top secret crime-fighting agency has grilled William Tyrrell's foster mother accusing her of hiding the toddler's body after the boy fell from the verandah, a Sydney court has heard.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[iiiii's]

How do you know she didn’t tell them?

The FGM walk through shows that she saw the FFFC walk around the corner of the house to look for WT. The FGM did not know WT was missing until she left the porch and walked down to the street where she met AMS and the FFFC said she would have to call the police. That was after 10.40am.

 

[SLouTh]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>... people in power should not have the right to sweep things under the carpet, and put out a false narrative for the public, as the truth.

William deserves justice! He needs an advocate for his human rights …

William is currently Australia’s biggest missing child case …. He deserves justice! And the Australian Public need to be told the truth. IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

LolaAngelina said:
How do you know she didn’t tell them?

Yes, I think FGM knew that William was missing. I think she knew that FM had run throughout the house and garden looking for William, calling for him.
That is why FGM walked down to the road. To see if FM had found him and was perhaps walking him back from wherever he went. She was concerned and wanted to see what was going on. imo
I can't see any other reason for her walking down to the road at that time.

 

[Couldbe]

Yes, I think FGM knew that William was missing. I think she knew that FM had run throughout the house and garden looking for William, calling for him.
That is why FGM walked down to the road. To see if FM had found him and was perhaps walking him back from wherever he went. She was concerned and wanted to see what was going on. imo
I can't see any other reason for her walking down to the road at that time.

JMO - Maybe FGM was aware that FFC had collected her Mazda keys ... because she was apparently sitting right outside the kitchen on the small deck. It has been debated here previously about why the Mazda drive by FFC wasn't mentioned for a number of days.

 

[SouthAussie]

JMO - Maybe FGM was aware that FFC had collected her Mazda keys ... because she was apparently sitting right outside the kitchen on the small deck. It has been debated here previously about why the Mazda drive by FFC wasn't mentioned for a number of days.

It is possible that FGM heard the car leaving, but she didn't walk around that way to see if the car was gone. She walked the other way, the way that William (and possibly sister, as she is said to be the last known person to see him alive) had run.

I don't think there is any way that she didn't know FM was looking for William ... not when she wandered out to see if FM could be seen.

I wonder how good FGM's longer range eyesight was at her age.

 

[Couldbe]

It is possible that FGM heard the car leaving, but she didn't walk around that way to see if the car was gone. She walked the other way, the way that William (and possibly sister, as she is said to be the last known person to see him alive) had run.

I don't think there is any way that she didn't know FM was looking for William ... not when she wandered out to see if FM could be seen.

I wonder how good FGM's longer range eyesight was at her age.

Many people of her age have had cataract surgery ... and consequently can have good eyesight. FGM could very well have been one of those.

How can we be sure that William's sister was 'the last known person to see him alive' ... as you have said?

 

[SouthAussie]

Many people of her age have had cataract surgery ... and consequently can have good eyesight. FGM could very well have been one of those.

How can we be sure that William's sister was 'the last known person to see him alive' ... as you have said?

Because I take Jubes' word for it. He is not a liar. In fact, quite the opposite. He tells the truth, sometimes to his own detriment. imo

You will notice 'the last known person to see William alive' is not mentioned anywhere - but now Jubes has mentioned it because he is sick and tired of their investigation being criticised and his SFR being attacked.

Lindsay has always been protected. imo (As she should be.)
She is mentioned as little as possible, we have only heard little snippets of her statements. I think mostly to say that Lindsay doesn't know what happened, that she didn't know any hidey place William might be, and that she saw a car that looked like daddy's car. Because everyone was wondering what Lindsay saw.

 

[Couldbe]

Because I take Jubes' word for it. He is not a liar. In fact, quite the opposite. He tells the truth, sometimes to his own detriment. imo

You will notice 'the last known person to see William alive' is not mentioned anywhere - but now Jubes has mentioned it because he is sick and tired of their investigation being criticised and his SFR being attacked.

Lindsay has always been protected. imo (As she should be.)
She is mentioned as little as possible, we have only heard little snippets of her statements. I think mostly to say that Lindsay doesn't know what happened, that she didn't know any hidey place William might be, and that she saw a car that looked like daddy's car. Because everyone was wondering what Lindsay saw.

SA ... you may not have read this article:
It was reported back on August 5, 2019:

https://www.news.com.au/national/crime
20.12.2015: Foster Mother says William’s sister may have been the only witness to abduction and that she knows a “bad person took William”.