Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #19

[Deleted member 249471]

For all we know, perhaps the original plan was for RB to abandon Marion overseas just like the others.

Even after they returned to Australia to empty her bank accounts, perhaps the plan was to still send Marion overseas on the pretence he would meet her there (but never actually see her again).

He would have got away with it too.

Just like he got away with it for all these years. Nobody checked/matched her new passport name to his QLD driver licence. It was only the Le Courrier being digitised and Joni doing a search with spaces between the letters that caught him.

I think something went wrong and he had to dispose of her.

Did he buy the car to make all the trips to withdraw the money? Or was the car to transport a body? Or both?

 

[KiwiNZ]

I wonder if there is less to these particular statements than meets the eye, or at least it's just more of the same.

As he seems to have done before, he may be just be again parroting evidence or stories he has heard in the podcast or the media, retrofitting it into his story for his own benefit. He did it with the pilot, with Marion's style being a bit "Little House on the Prairie", and now this. Marion being still alive and wanting no contact with her family was the assumption for a long time, via the police and the bank, and seems to be still the view of her sisters (although they appear not to give two sh*ts either way). I can see him doing a very poorly thought out call back to that.

Still a big mistake on his part, but I can sort of see how it happened in his warped brain, given his previous. He did seem genuinely astonished that the court was all over it like a rash when he appeared to assume this info was nothing new.

I think he just cant help himself he is an avid talker and story teller, he has to embellish EVERYTHING and turn a nothing into something and by doing so injects himself back into something that he actual wants out of ... that's how stupid he is, his inability to just say nothing he digs himself deeper but he cant help himself, that's his personality.

The guy cant read a room that's for sure or figure the consequence of the rubbish rolling uncontrollable out of his mouth, as someone else pointed out the intelligent thing would have been to say " I don't know where she is but I do hope Sally gets answers and I hope Marion is ok etc...." even though we know it's a lie but a smart person would say that and end it as quick as they can. I don't think it's an age thing I think he has always been this way.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Missing Person Marion Barter

Missing Person Marion Barter. 21,167 likes · 760 talking about this. Searching for my missing mum, Marion Barter Missing since 22 June 1997 © Sally Leydon 2013

www.facebook.com

Earlier this year I spoke to a couple who owned a Used Car Dealership near Ric Blum's home in 1997. They had not heard anything about the case and had never been contacted.
"Mr L" confirmed that he sold the Mitsubishi Magna registration "PVC 096" to Rick de Hedervary on 11th August, 1997. We have documentary evidence of this transaction to confirm this.
"Mr. L" recalls Mr. Blum clearly because he perceived him as so unusual in presentation and personality in this interaction. "Mr. L" told me that he recalled him talking about his leg injuries from his accident as a policeman in Belgium, his Jewish heritage and the fact he only “dealt in cash” as a successful "ancient coin dealer", this was his said trade.
He mentioned that he actually felt chuffed at the time that a man who was so educated with his perfect French accent was being so friendly with him, taking the time to talk to him about his extraordinary life story.
"Mr. L" recalled that he did see a “European looking woman” sitting in the car Mr. Blum drove to the yard. He thinks this woman was Mrs Diane de Hedervary, when looking at images of both Diane and Marion online, however it was a long time ago and the car was parked a distance away.
He stated that Mr. Blum told him that he was leaving Australia shortly, as he was in the process of purchasing an apartment in France in which to live. "Mr. L" had the impression this move was intended within days of him purchasing the car, he then wondered why he needed this “absolute rust bucket” at all.
"Mr. L"s wife also recalls her husband coming home that same night and talking to her about this customer and how unusual he was to the usual customer at this small used car lot. She supports his memories of his interactions and observations of Mr. Blum in 1997.
An observation within the timeline that is of note is that Marion, after arriving at Brisbane Airport on 2nd August, 1997 would have completed her stated eight day stay at the Novotel on the 10th of August, the day before this car was purchased by Mr. Blum.
Just another interesting account.
Joni

To me, this seems really significiant.

He obviously didn't buy this 'absolute rust bucket' for himself or any of his loved ones. I wonder why he chose to 'charm' the dealer with his stories - ie, create a memorable persona? Or maybe that's how he behaves in all interactions if he's grandiose and self-important, also trying to explain cash only transactions as opposed to bank transfers or credit card payments.

What became of this vehicle? Did he use it to dispose of Marion?

I wish we knew more about what the car dealer thinks a 'European woman' looks like? I guess he meant not asian, not black or brown skinned?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I would like to know if any unidentifiable 'Jane Doe' women were found deceased in 'rust bucket' cars in 1997

Would the car have been registered to the dealer? Did RB transfer it into his own name or never do so?

Maybe RB implanted all this colourful and vivid memories into the car dealer's mind so that he would clearly recall him buying the car

 

[Deleted member 249471]

To me, this seems really significiant.

He obviously didn't buy this 'absolute rust bucket' for himself or any of his loved ones. I wonder why he chose to 'charm' the dealer with his stories - ie, create a memorable persona? Or maybe that's how he behaves in all interactions if he's grandiose and self-important, also trying to explain cash only transactions as opposed to bank transfers or credit card payments.

What became of this vehicle? Did he use it to dispose of Marion?

I wish we knew more about what the car dealer thinks a 'European woman' looks like? I guess he meant not asian, not black or brown skinned?

Ha! I also wanted to know what European meant. I guess it could mean tan/olive skin. Like what the bank manager said?

Hope this is correct...
The 'rust bucket' was purchased 11 Aug 1997.
According to DdH, it was for her daughter (16 years old at the time) to use to drive to work.
DdH said it was sold 3 months later on 30 Nov 1997.
However, the inquest had paperwork that the car was transferred to DdH 30 Nov 1998.
Then transferred to son on 18 Feb 1999 who had the car until 16 May 2001.

 

[Liselle]

Smith @ 3:56:56 asked AKA "do you have an interest in poisons?"
AC objected and said "perhaps a time frame could be put on the question"
Smith rephrased his question then to " at any point upto 2006 did you have an interest in poisons?"

Yes and thank you, I understand what you mean, but under what circumstances would AC want this information to be limited within a "time frame"? With the ramblings of RB, he may have tripped up to reveal some surprising, additional information as he did with "MB wanting to distance herself from her family ". I thought it would be positive to obtain as much information as possible. Maybe @Mjjj14 could help out?

 

[HinterlandObserver]

WHAT?! Is RB in one of the Uniting Church retirement villages??!

Remember the Byron policeman who took Sally's report? The one who had been a policeman 20 years but claims he never managed a missing persons case before and didn't know the procedure? Well, he retired from the police force 5 years after Marion disappeared and went on to work in sales for retirement village / resort property investment companies. Including that one.

I think that had been mentioned in a previously deleted post by Mishy

 

[mishy66]

WHAT?! Is RB in one of the Uniting Church retirement villages??!

Remember the Byron policeman who took Sally's report? The one who had been a policeman 20 years but claims he never managed a missing persons case before and didn't know the procedure? Well, he retired from the police force 5 years after Marion disappeared and went on to work in sales for retirement village / resort property investment companies. Including that one.

Yes.

I put all this up weeks ago and it was taken down.

 

[KiwiNZ]

I wonder why he chose to 'charm' the dealer with his stories - ie, create a memorable persona? Or maybe that's how he behaves in all interactions if he's grandiose and self-important,

I think that's just him in every situation, he is a Pathological liar and will take any opportunity to try and impress others with his made up life and story's.

Pathological liars lie more than others. They make up stories that sound real enough that people believe them. They then add more lies to back up the original lies. The lies they tell can be outlandish and easily disproved.

 

[mishy66]

AKA is in respite care in Bangalow. I don’t think anyone in MSM has specified which one.

This may have been one after the first placement...JMO of course

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Hope this is correct...
The 'rust bucket' was purchased 11 Aug 1997.
According to DdH, it was for her daughter (16 years old at the time) to use to drive to work.
DdH said it was sold 3 months later on 30 Nov 1997.
However, the inquest had paperwork that the car was transferred to DdH 30 Nov 1998.
Then transferred to son on 18 Feb 1999 who had the car until 16 May 2001.

If the car was genuinely sold 3 months after purchase, I suspect the car was used for nefarious reasons and requires luminal testing.
If it was kept in family until 2001, then less likely.
However, it's also possible RB changed number plates and registration or some such dodgy thing.
So who the hell knows.

 

[mishy66]

Yes and thank you, I understand what you mean, but under what circumstances would AC want this information to be limited within a "time frame"? With the ramblings of RB, he may have tripped up to reveal some surprising, additional information as he did with "MB wanting to distance herself from her family ". I thought it would be positive to obtain as much information as possible. Maybe @Mjjj14 could help out?

Maybe in relation to IK perhaps
After all the letter submission was doctors in forensics
Wherever there is a crime, there is a trail of evidence - Dr S Hales

 

[mishy66]

I could be mistaken of course
but this doesn't read like someone who as AH says, ""she had told me that she wanted to cut off all ties with her family"

July 1997 Alfriston
Dear Sal,

Thinking of you as I explore the quaint little shop on my tour to the historic village of Alfriston. Am feeling more relaxed - so much beauty and antiquity everywhere. So I’m in my element. Next stop Amsterdam.

Hope it wasn't too much of a pain getting those things to ...... especially the kitchen scales.

You're a kind daughter. Have seen my first red squirrels and rabbits everywhere in the fields.

The strawberries taste devine so do the raspberries.

Lots of love to you both,

Mum"

 

[HinterlandObserver]

I could be mistaken of course
but this doesn't read like someone who as AH says, ""she had told me that she wanted to cut off all ties with her family"

July 1997 Alfriston
Dear Sal,

Thinking of you as I explore the quaint little shop on my tour to the historic village of Alfriston. Am feeling more relaxed - so much beauty and antiquity everywhere. So I’m in my element. Next stop Amsterdam.

Hope it wasn't too much of a pain getting those things to ...... especially the kitchen scales.

You're a kind daughter. Have seen my first red squirrels and rabbits everywhere in the fields.

The strawberries taste devine so do the raspberries.

Lots of love to you both,

Mum"

Can’t say I’d bother with posting anything back to people I “wanted to cut ties with”.
Stopping to purchase postcards, writing a reasonable note on them, then paying for a stamp and posting it is quite the opposite IMOO.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Ha! I also wanted to know what European meant. I guess it could mean tan/olive skin. Like what the bank manager said?

Hope this is correct...
The 'rust bucket' was purchased 11 Aug 1997.
According to DdH, it was for her daughter (16 years old at the time) to use to drive to work.
DdH said it was sold 3 months later on 30 Nov 1997.
However, the inquest had paperwork that the car was transferred to DdH 30 Nov 1998.
Then transferred to son on 18 Feb 1999 who had the car until 16 May 2001.

Re 'European', I suppose it's all in the context of who it came from. As someone who is from Northern Europe myself, I would imagine that anyone in Australia would reserve 'European' for pasty white people.

To my mind, DdH looks dark and olive skinned compared to Marion and she definitely looks tan enough to be called a white Australian, whereas Marion's pictures she always looks like she didn't tan much, her skin is so fair and light.

So if the query is: was it Marion or was it DdH, I'd want to know more about how the car dealer defined 'European'.

I also suspect this is an issue where RB can 'implant' the information and suggest it so it becomes a memory. You tell the car dealer you're from Belgium, travelling around Australia before you and your partner go back to buy a house in Europe and there's a white lady sitting in his car. That car dealer is going to remember the white lady as a 'European woman'. RB may have even said she doesn't speak any English and before you know it, she's a Belgian woman he saw sitting there.

However, the car dealer saw both pictures and said probably DdH. I personally think it was probably Marion. This is where it helps to have forensic psychologists or senior detectives or lawyers debrief people of information.

I never believed Marion came back from Europe but now I'm starting to. I think she came back to get the money out, under his instruction, in exactly the same was as with GDD - so he could invest it in split chunks for their future home, some for her kids, some for the wedding in Bali, some for their travel plans and the Orient Express etc, all taken in chunks of cash and given 'under the table'. Meanwhile she's holed up in a hotel being instructed not to tell her children or family as it's all going to be a grand surprise announcement. As she told Sally in the last phone call, she's sorting out some affairs and will be out of touch for a little while. She went for the eye check because that's what he does - sends women off on random errands to take chunks of time out of their day - he probably also send her on a whirlwind of other appointments, she may have even had her hair cut short and coloured. Then what!??

Someone like RB probably drove her to a remote spot on the pretext of a romantic walk in the 'rust bucket' and did something unspeakable. I guess if that's what he did then he would go to somewhere he already knows about. Somewhere he is fully aware they would not be seen and nobody comes by.

 

[MrsWattle]

Le Courier ad in 1994 indicates he is working the scam pre MB. We only have AKA’s word at the moment that no one else responded to that ad.

Yes but I think he was very busy travelling to Europe 4 times in 1995 = 4 unknown victims or more.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I think that's just him in every situation, he is a Pathological liar and will take any opportunity to try and impress others with his made up life and story's.

Pathological liars lie more than others. They make up stories that sound real enough that people believe them. They then add more lies to back up the original lies. The lies they tell can be outlandish and easily disproved.

I don't think he's a pathological liar - insofar as they're the sort that lie for no reason about things that are meaningless to both parties and never have any meaning. I have met this sort. In fact they're usually personality disordered and take their power and kicks from knowing they've deceived and 'gaslighted' you.

I think RB's lies are to create a structure and foundation around his scams, frauds, and deceit. Therefore, they're thought out lies for a reason. He only ever gives information in order to misdirect or deflect and it's usually the opposite of the truth - that's where the best clue can be taken. An organised criminal liar wouldn't lie for no good reason as then they would become known for being an unreliable fibber whose word means nothing.

Those sort of organised liars also shore up their defences surrounding events and circumstances in advance *in case* you ever question them. For example a man having an affair might say to his wife before he goes out to meet his lover: 'I'm only showering and shaving and putting a clean suit on as it's been such a hot day and I spilled soup on my trousers at lunch time'. These statements are made apropos of nothing and the wife was not even wondering why he's having a shower and putting clean clothes on as he had already told her he's going to a work event. She may later notice there's no spilled soup on his trousers. If she trusts her husband she may feel confused. If she's someone like me then she would know 100% what this means.

RB's word doesn't mean nothing - it means the opposite of the truth. He's demonic IMO. The truth is not unspoken, it's the opposite of what he says.

Even when he says 'how could I do that?', 'why would I do that?', 'that makes no sense, it's not possible' - what he means is hahahaha I figured out how to fraudulently do it and you don't know how I did it.

When he says 'no, never' it literally means 'yes'. His code is not difficult to crack but in terms of law enforcement it probably doesn't stand up in a court of law to know this.

JMO MOO

JMO MOO

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Lots of times in Australia, in news stories and books, someone from Europe is or was described as swarthy looking.

Someone with pale skin would be seen as coming from one of the Scandinavian countries.

I think it was not Marion that the car sale guy was describing.

 

[Mrs_Vee]

I'm still laughing that he told GDD he was ending their relationship as she was noisy when she drinks.

Wait…. What…? I must’ve missed this… what a creep!!

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

I could be mistaken of course
but this doesn't read like someone who as AH says, ""she had told me that she wanted to cut off all ties with her family"

July 1997 Alfriston
Dear Sal,

Thinking of you as I explore the quaint little shop on my tour to the historic village of Alfriston. Am feeling more relaxed - so much beauty and antiquity everywhere. So I’m in my element. Next stop Amsterdam.

Hope it wasn't too much of a pain getting those things to ...... especially the kitchen scales.

You're a kind daughter. Have seen my first red squirrels and rabbits everywhere in the fields.

The strawberries taste devine so do the raspberries.

Lots of love to you both,

Mum"

The postcards and letter home IMHO quash any claim Marion was looking to break away from her family. It just suits his needs.