IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #174

[zh0r4]

re: one girl sacrificed, the other girl killed.

Just my take:
I took "sacrifice" vs. "killed" as Lebrato's focus on differentiating forensic/crime scene observations between the two victims.

I hadn't thought about this differentiation being about the killer's motive. So that is very interesting.

JMHO.

Was Abby suppose to stay with Libby all weekend or did she call her mother/gpa to ask to stay another night?

 

[zh0r4]

Judge Gull sets hearing for Feb 12 on:
P's new charges against RA
Ps motion for Contempt

View attachment 479996

Would Gull also oversee appeals or? This is disappointing, no idea why anyone would not recuse if there was any accusation of bias. Even if RA is guilty, this is setting up for a perfect appeal-I mean unless JG would rule over it, then it would likely be denied. JMO.

 

[zh0r4]

Contempt motion hearing is 2/12. BM on DD podcast just posted that JG can't rule on anything until the recusal motion is dealt with. He thinks that indicates she is going to deny the recusal motion without a hearing, I'm assuming before 2/12. Guess we'll see...

He also said that last time but she kept doing things and ignored it. I like BM’s optimism, but he also said in his state (Illinois) an outside judge would rule on a DQ, but in Indiana the same judge who’s being accused of bias rules on whether they are bias…lol. JMO.

 

[TL4S]

He also said that last time but she kept doing things and ignored it. I like BM’s optimism, but he also said in his state (Illinois) an outside judge would rule on a DQ, but in Indiana the same judge who’s being accused of bias rules on whether they are bias…lol. JMO.

JG will decide that. CW says it actually works pretty well normally. Guess we'll see...

I don't always agree with BM, but I do very much enjoy his impression of JG: DENIED, DENIED, DENIED!

 

[photographer4]

re: one girl sacrificed, the other girl killed.

Just my take:
I took "sacrifice" vs. "killed" as Lebrato's focus on differentiating forensic/crime scene observations between the two victims.

I hadn't thought about this differentiation being about the killer's motive. So that is very interesting.

JMHO.

IMO if one girl was sacrificed, that might make sense IF the FM by B&R was accurate - in which they claim one was wounded in a way that she would have bled out more slowly. But before we can understand and conclude this - we'd need more information - eg; from the Medical Examiner or specialists in the field of Odinism etc.

 

[TristanP]

RSBM,

What SCOIN actually "denied unanimously" was a motion "to remove Gull and to appoint a new special judge." Denied. (See (3) at linked document).

IMO, they are saying that Gull will remain on the case and will not be replaced by a new judge with that language.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1748100605606785053

The SC decision meant *they* were not going to remove Gull, because it would open up a way for other defendants to attempt to get their judges removed. It didn’t mean that B&R can’t still request removal/DQ at the trial court level.

 

[Schatz]

IMO if one girl was sacrificed, that might make sense IF the FM by B&R was accurate - in which they claim one was wounded in a way that she would have bled out more slowly. But before we can understand and conclude this - we'd need more information - eg; from the Medical Examiner or specialists in the field of Odinism etc.

Agreed. "Sacrificed" is an odd word to use if it simply meant a collateral death.

 

[TL4S]

Agreed. "Sacrificed" is an odd word to use if it simply meant a collateral death.

I agree, but nobody wants to consider he meant the true definition of "sacrifice," either, even though four reputable, JG appointed defense attorneys have said it. I don't even know what to think, anymore.

 

[Schatz]

I agree, but nobody wants to consider he meant the true definition of "sacrifice," either, even though four reputable, JG appointed defense attorneys have said it. I don't even know what to think, anymore.

I have been willing to consider it ever since someone (ISP? Doug Carter?) mentioned the “nonsecular” nature of the crime scene - a reference that was later scrubbed from print journalism.

ETA JMO

 

[Caylee Advocate]

My how things have changed since this article was put to print.

New tips, new subpoenas in new year of hunting for Delphi killer

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. – We have his picture. We have a detailed sketch of his face. We even have a recording of his voice. So how is it, one year later, we still don’t have the man who killed …

fox59.com

 

[steeltowngirl]

Was Abby suppose to stay with Libby all weekend or did she call her mother/gpa to ask to stay another night?

Little is known about the events of the entire weekend, but it’s been said the sleepover was just one night.

The inseparable friends spent their last night alive having a sleepover at Libby's house, Becky Patty said. There was no school on Monday, Feb. 13, so the girls slept in and had pancakes.

Police speak directly to the unknown Delphi killer: 'Today could be the day -- sleep well'

This weekend marks five years since the murders of two eighth-grade girls in Delphi, Indiana -- a murder mystery that's still unsolved.

abcnews.go.com

 

[Schatz]

My how things have changed since this article was put to print.

New tips, new subpoenas in new year of hunting for Delphi killer

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. – We have his picture. We have a detailed sketch of his face. We even have a recording of his voice. So how is it, one year later, we still don’t have the man who killed …

fox59.com

I was just reading this article and thinking just how much significant information there is to try to hold and synthesize in this case. It’s daunting.

Sheriff’s deputy claims demotion over Delphi murders investigation

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. — A Carroll County Sheriff’s deputy has filed a federal civil rights lawsuit against Sheriff Tobias Leazenby and the sheriff’s office claiming that he was the victi…

fox59.com

 

[steeltowngirl]

Has a hunter ever come up earlier in the investigation? Does that statement make sense to anyone re: suspects?

TK.. not exactly part of the investigation, but KAK talked to BM about his father hunting. Murders were with a knife.

“Kline told McDonald his father weighs 280 pounds, that he is a deer hunter and was robust enough to walk through the woods and strong enough to retrieve a deer.”

A break in the Delphi murders? Transcripts reveal new details

DELPHI, Ind. — For five years, the murders of 13-year-old Abby Williams and 14-year-old Libby German have hung over Delphi, ghosts that couldn’t be put to rest. On Feb. 13, 2017, the two best…

fox59.com

 

[steeltowngirl]

Was Abby suppose to stay with Libby all weekend or did she call her mother/gpa to ask to stay another night?

Here is a little more info about their final Sunday.

Abigail “Abby” Williams and Liberty “Libby” German had a bond stronger than most.

A rare mid-February Monday off from school prompted the pair to do what any teenage friends would do the day before: They had a sleepover.

The girls shared a variety of interests; both loved art, both enjoyed sports and both played alto sax in the Delphi Community Middle School band.

Abby brought her big box of arts and crafts over to Libby’s house and sprawled them across the floor of Libby’s room on that Sunday night. The girls painted photos of nature on canvases as they giggled and shared intimate secrets like most young girls do.

Earlier that day, the two had been in the back yard practicing their softball swing in excited anticipation of the upcoming season.

Delphi Daughters: Untold story of Abby & Libby

Abby & Libby had a bond stronger than most, one that, even in the face of the ultimate fear, wasn't broken.

www.wrtv.com

 

[snooptroop88]

What is known of the "keepsake bullet" in the bedroom? I searched back on old threads and see someone that commented on this. So RA has this "keepsake bullet" in a box in the-- "primary bedroom"?? What sentimental value could a bullet hold?? I see why people are asking about hunting. But even a true diehard hunter-- would they keep a "keepsake bullet" in the bedroom? Did he do any hunting? I mean, even just the phrase, "keepsake bullet" seems odd. Maybe someone out in the Alaskan bush or Montana or what have you, bear country. Even deer country. Let's open it to any kind of hunting, anywhere, of any animal. Still, in the bedroom (??) I'd more expect like dried flowers or a ring or some jewelry. "Keepsake bullet"?? And even assuming it's legitimately a "keepsake"-- in the bedroom??

 

[mrjitty]

The way I read it the first day was that the request by the defense to remove the judge was denied.
I took that to mean, that was that. SCOIN did not say we’re sending it back down to a lower court. They denied it. Just like they ruled the old defense was back on board, that was that.
They are the highest court in Indiana, with no one left to appeal it to.
The last thing we need is to start relitigating things over and over.
Get this thing to trial ASAP

We need to know the reasons for the SCOIN ruling denying the removal of the Judge. Wieneke made these apparent bias arguments in front of SCOIN already because the defence saw it as a two-fer i.e if counsel was illegitimately removed, perception of bias must logically follow as far as the rest of the trial was concerned.

So if SCOIN has actually ruled on that substantive issue, then it is likely it can't succeed now in the trial court.

But SCOIN may have simply said now that the counsel issue was resolved, the correct procedure is for Judge to now decide whether to recuse, should the defence bring such a motion.

Personally I suspect SCOIN was never going to rule to remove the Judge when the issue hadn't been ruled on at first instance. But hopefully they gave some strong direction one way or other if they are seriously about getting the case back on the rails!

 

[mrjitty]

Would Gull also oversee appeals or? This is disappointing, no idea why anyone would not recuse if there was any accusation of bias. Even if RA is guilty, this is setting up for a perfect appeal-I mean unless JG would rule over it, then it would likely be denied. JMO.

Remember the allegation is of perceived bias, not actual bias.

There are good reasons why a judge would not recuse based on mere assertions, otherwise the defence or prosecution could simply demand a new judge anytime they felt things were going against them.

That said, the Morphew posters here will recall that the Judge recused in that case based on quite a tenuous potential for a conflict, and without any suggestion of an actual conflict.

In that case it was fairly clear the defence was judge shopping and may have engineered the conflict - so it worked out for them.

 

[FrostedGlass]

This has not been updated yet:​

Parties to the Case​

Hide all party details

	Defendant	Allen, Richard M.
	Attorney Robert Cliff Scremin #3109902, Lead, Court Appointed Attorney address 116 E Berry ST STE 1200 Fort Wayne, IN 46802 Attorney phone 260-494-0606(W) Attorney Andrew Joseph Baldwin #1785141, Retained Attorney address BALDWIN PERRY & KAMISH, P.C. 150 N Main Street Franklin, IN 46131 Attorney phone 317-736-0053(W) Attorney William Santino Lebrato #2170702, Court Appointed Attorney address 116 E Berry ST STE 500 Fort Wayne, IN 46802 Attorney Bradley Anthony Rozzi #2336509, Retained Attorney address 200 Fourth St. Logansport, IN 46947 Attorney phone 574-722-4560(W)

 

[Niner]

Okay - what does DQ mean... ?? TIA!

 

[FrostedGlass]

Okay - what does DQ mean... ?? TIA!

disqualify?

other answer removed by me: OT, trying to be funny.

You're welcome.