GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #6

[cottonweaver]

I never thought I would say this, but I do feel some compassion for JC. I don’t know how long EC’s schools had virtual learning during the pandemic, but it was an extremely stressful time for students and their parents.
Of course it is no excuse whatsoever, but maybe she would have been more tuned in as a parent without the added stress of the pandemic?

i wonder whether covid was more damaging for EC than Jennifer. She went back to work. Where was Dad? Was EC just online/ game-playing most days?

I tried to find people who had terrible things to say about EC himself pre March 2021 and I couldn't find anything. OFC that doesn't mean it isn't there but even the half-brother Eli's account didn't raise red flags ( Eli left in 2020 after fights of some kind, fights with Jennifer) Diner owner also says he was a pleasant employee

only other items I can recall re education are
- On her blog JC had complained about Common Core ( IDK the date. Pre covid?)

- At trial she testified that he could do his homework at school but also complained he didn't complete assignments. ( He certainly had no desk in either bedroom at home, IDK if he even had a laptop or a computer set-up for homework. None were shown in the LEO full search photos. Did he just have his games consoles and a phone? Was he accessing 'Live Gore on his phone? He was supposedly up all night and then sleepy in class)
- IQ tests conducted for the Miller hearing showed his IQ score was either average or above average.

I've also tried to consider areas of mitigation for Jennifer's sentencing phase but I won't go into that now - post will be too long

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I can't seem to locate the exact video and article that I read yesterday, but this has the video and some of the same information regarding Ethan's fall in the diner where he worked.

Oxford Shooter Ethan Crumbley Fell, Hit Head in Bizarre Incident Last year

Crumbley appears to have fainted while on the job last year.

www.tmz.com

...This video shows then 14-year-old Crumbley in a diner where he worked back in September 2020. Crumbley is walking in a work area and you see him disoriented and wobbly before he collapses, hitting his head on a cabinet. In the video, first obtained by the Daily Mail, he struggles to get up before someone comes over and helps.

The diner's owner says someone on the staff called his parents and sent him home. His mom blamed it on Ethan not eating that day. But the owner has her doubts, saying she thinks it might've been related to his medications...

While the above article doesn't mention that Jennifer told the diner owner not to call 9-1-1 following the incident, I have read that elsewhere. Why wouldn't a parent want their child checked out in the Emergency Department or Urgent Care after a fall that included hitting his head? Was it because Ethan didn't have health insurance coverage, or was his mother concerned that alcohol and/or drugs might be found in his system? Was it ever determined that Ethan took medications that were prescribed for him as the diner owner suggests?

Jennifer attributes the fall to Ethan not eating that day. How often did that happen? Why didn't he eat? Did Ethan's parents not provide their son with nourishing foods? Not eating is a symptom of depression, and if Ethan was in the habit of not eating healthfully on a regular basis, that in itself should have been an indication that something was not right with their son. JMO

 

[cottonweaver]

Is it speculation or fact that the other jurors agreed to have one person speak for them/represent them now in the media? The role of foreperson is over with the dismissal of the jury by the judge.

So the juror who is giving media interviews only represents herself, as far as I am aware. I haven't seen anything indicating other jurors have trusted this juror to speak for them.

When I post ' I guess....' yes it's just my personal guess. Literally. ( based on what she said across the 7 mins, day of and day after)
I also agree that she said nothing which explicitly suggested that.

What's your guess? are you expecting her to do more media interviews? Also, are you expecting more of the eleven to come out and do media?

 

[Cool Cats]

Not her defense team and they talk about grounds for appeal

Jennifer Crumbley: Defense attorney team predicts sentence, chance at her appeal

On Wednesday, a day after the verdict, noted, criminal attorneys from the Cripps and Silver Law Firm got out the guidelines to figure out what the judge will do.

news.yahoo.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

Not her defense team and they talk about grounds for appeal

Jennifer Crumbley: Defense attorney team predicts sentence, chance at her appeal

On Wednesday, a day after the verdict, noted, criminal attorneys from the Cripps and Silver Law Firm got out the guidelines to figure out what the judge will do.

news.yahoo.com

I don't get how anyone convicted on 4 counts up to 15 yrs on each count only gets sentenced on one of the counts.
Four innocents were killed, one count for each of them.

Since that's how sentencing goes I say she'll get 12 yrs and 5 probation.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Not her defense team and they talk about grounds for appeal

Jennifer Crumbley: Defense attorney team predicts sentence, chance at her appeal

On Wednesday, a day after the verdict, noted, criminal attorneys from the Cripps and Silver Law Firm got out the guidelines to figure out what the judge will do.

news.yahoo.com

It usually takes about a year before you even know if your appeal will be heard, so unless Matthews gives JC a low-low sentence with time served then JC should still be sitting in prison.
That would take her to almost 3.5 yrs there when her appeal hearing process begins.
The appeal courts haven't been kind to either Crumbley.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Not her defense team and they talk about grounds for appeal

Jennifer Crumbley: Defense attorney team predicts sentence, chance at her appeal

On Wednesday, a day after the verdict, noted, criminal attorneys from the Cripps and Silver Law Firm got out the guidelines to figure out what the judge will do.

news.yahoo.com

Another thought. lol
Since the Crumbley case is a first and she was convicted I expect some highly noted appeals lawyer to be representing her,
A few may be vying for her case now.
Pro-bono would not be surprising.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

What’s next for Oxford High School shooter, both parents after mother’s guilty verdict

The guilty verdict for Jennifer Crumbley was a landmark ruling in the case of the Oxford High School shooting, but we likely haven’t seen the last of her, her husband, or her son.

www.clickondetroit.com

OXFORD, Mich. – The guilty verdict for Jennifer Crumbley was a landmark ruling in the case of the Oxford High School shooting, but we likely haven’t seen the last of her, her husband, or her son.

A jury deliberated for about a day and a half before finding Jennifer Crumbley guilty of four counts of involuntary manslaughter -- one for each of the Oxford High School students who were killed by her son during the Nov. 30, 2021, shooting.

But that ruling doesn’t put the case to rest -- not by a long shot...

 

[Izzylizzy]

"Legal experts and gun-safety advocates say the United States — where 394 school shootings have occurred since the Columbine High School massacre in 1999 — cannot prosecute its way out of its gun-violence crisis. Still, many see the Crumbley verdict as a watershed moment that could prompt gun owners with children living at home to take the kinds of precautions that jurors found Jennifer Crumbley neglected: detecting warning signs of her son’s future violence and safely storing a gun in the home.


Nick Suplina, the senior vice president for law and policy at Everytown for Gun Safety, an anti-gun-violence nonprofit, said the Crumbley verdict will “absolutely” help to prevent future shootings by sending a clear message to gun owners that the decisions they make in their homes could have profound effects across their communities.

“The implications are bigger than the context of just this case, but the takeaway is streamlined: Lock up your guns, and you can avoid a whole host of issues that lead guns to being the leading killer of kids and teens in the country,” Suplina said.'

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/02/08/jennifer-crumbley-verdict-oxford-shooting-prevention/

 

[Sundog]

What's your guess? are you expecting her to do more media interviews? Also, are you expecting more of the eleven to come out and do media?

<Snipped for focus>

Who knows. Maybe she'll write a book.

Not all jurors seek the spotlight. They do their civic duty and then they're done. I do understand how the media hound jury members in a high profile case, but many prefer their privacy. Who knows if others will give statements or interviews.

 

[Sundog]

Not her defense team and they talk about grounds for appeal

Jennifer Crumbley: Defense attorney team predicts sentence, chance at her appeal

On Wednesday, a day after the verdict, noted, criminal attorneys from the Cripps and Silver Law Firm got out the guidelines to figure out what the judge will do.

news.yahoo.com

A chance for an appeal?​

Jennifer Crumbley will be sentenced April 9. It’s almost certain that Crumbley will appeal her conviction, but what are the issues on appeal?

First, should the jury have seen the actual Oxford High School shooting video? The attorneys at Cripps and Silver say no.

"When the emotion takes over the courtroom, how are the jurors going to ignore that when coming to a decision," said Silver.

Next, the journal found in the shooter's backpack allegedly said that the shooter was reaching out for his parents, saying "I have zero help for my mental problems and it's causing me to shoot up the *advertiser censored***** school."

"The shooter never testified," Silver said. "He can’t be cross-examined about what does this mean, why were you writing this, is this true? The jury is forced to take it at face value at this point."

FOX 2: "What about the affairs?"

"I don’t know why in the world you would let that in," Silver said. "I really don't. You're trying to portray her as a good, hyper-vigilant parent. And you can’t let in all of this testimony that’s going to be damaging to her, under any circumstances."

And there may be other issues on appeal. But, what’s the chance that the jury’s guilty verdict would be overturned on appeal anyway?

"At the end of the day, most appeals are lost. But this is a really novel case," Silver said. "So I think given the impact of this case, given the impact that it can have across-the-board to parents everywhere frankly, the courts are going to take a hard look at it."

 

[Sundog]

Another thought. lol
Since the Crumbley case is a first and she was convicted I expect some highly noted appeals lawyer to be representing her,
A few may be vying for her case now.
Pro-bono would not be surprising.

I reply hope so. She deserves much better than the defense representation she had at her trial and I hope someone steps forward to represent her who has the expertise in appellate matters, especially given the precedent-setting implications of this case. Since the courts made her a guinea pig, she should not have to face this alone without the best legal representation possible.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Say wha?

Shannon Smith:

"I will concede that these parents made tremendously bad decisions"
3/7/23

Appeals court hears case against parents of Oxford shooter in dismissal attempt

The case against the parents of the Oxford High School shooter, who also face criminal charges in connection with the mass shooting, was heard in the state appeals court Tuesday morning as the defense attempts to get the case dismissed.

www.clickondetroit.com

 

[10ofRods]

I don't get how anyone convicted on 4 counts up to 15 yrs on each count only gets sentenced on one of the counts.
Four innocents were killed, one count for each of them.

Since that's how sentencing goes I say she'll get 12 yrs and 5 probation.

They don't get sentence on just one account, usually, Instead they run "concurrently" (a word which many people don't want to read or hear in a public statement).

Concurrent and consecutive are the two different terms, but lawyers know that a lot of people don't know that. They're hoping it will be concurrent (which, really, is as if only sentence for one crime).

IMO.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Stay tuned for the infamous "I'm sorry"

Jennifer Crumbley's attorney may face sanctions over information about the Oxford High School shooter she included in a public motion, according to a judge's order.

Prosecutors allege attorney Shannon Smith did not fully read documents before filing a motion and for violating Oakland County Circuit Court Judge Cheryl Matthews' protective order of shooter Ethan Crumbley's psychiatric records. They also allege she knowingly filed a motion with the intent to create false headlines that the shooter did not request mental health treatment from his parents.

Smith denies this, saying the motion was filed for the sole purpose of asking for more time to review documents she recently received from prosecutors, according to her response to prosecutors' motion for sanctions.'

'Crumbley attorney to have hearing on if sanctions warranted'​

The Detroit News
https://www.detroitnews.com › local › 2023/11/21



Nov 21, 2023 — Oakland Circuit Judge Cheryl Matthews has set a May hearing date for Shannon Smith, Jennifer Crumbley's attorney, to determine if she should ...

Missing: leaking ‎| Show results with: leaking

 

[Izzylizzy]

They don't get sentence on just one account, usually, Instead they run "concurrently" (a word which many people don't want to read or hear in a public statement).

Concurrent and consecutive are the two different terms, but lawyers know that a lot of people don't know that. They're hoping it will be concurrent (which, really, is as if only sentence for one crime).

IMO.

Ah-ha!
Thank you.

 

[Cool Cats]

Prosecution doubles down on James Crumbley, adds Oxford High students to witness list​

Prosecution doubles down on James Crumbley, adds Oxford High students to witness list

After his wife was convicted of involuntary manslaughter, Ethan Crumbley's father, James, faces trial in March on identical charges.

news.yahoo.com

The prosecution appears to be upping the ante for its second case against the parents of the Oxford High School shooter, as it has added three students to its witness list to testify against James Crumbley, according to a new court filing.

The students include two teenagers who were shot and injured during the 2021 rampage, and later gave impact statements at the shooter's sentencing hearing in December, when Ethan Crumbley was ordered to serve life without parole.

No students testified at the mother's trial.

 

[BrownRice]

I, too, think that it will be overturned on appeal. Also agree about a civil suit by the families as the right direction to have gone in a case like this.

Hoping for a light sentence by the judge as JC awaits her appeal, if it is forthcoming.

Curious why you wish for her sentencing to be so lenient? I’ve seen through out the trial, you have made the statements and I’m curious of the reasoning. Do you feel it was unnecessary to charge her for these crimes?

 

[BrownRice]

I never thought I would say this, but I do feel some compassion for JC. I don’t know how long EC’s schools had virtual learning during the pandemic, but it was an extremely stressful time for students and their parents.
Of course it is no excuse whatsoever, but maybe she would have been more tuned in as a parent without the added stress of the pandemic?

I find myself sometimes sympathizing with EC (for the sadness he felt in his life to do such a horrible thing). Obviously my focus on sympathy is with the victims’ families.

The pandemic was hard for everyone. I parented a young teenager and it sucked. Home schooling with less than agreeable kids, remote work at the same time, worrying about everything. But, as a parent, I didn’t realize I had the option of thinking, you’re on your own kid, suck it up and deal with it.

Maybe his mental health issues really exacerbated during Covid. Who knows. But spending all her time with her horses and boyfriend doesn’t sound Covid related, more like selfishness.

 

[BrownRice]

I can't seem to locate the exact video and article that I read yesterday, but this has the video and some of the same information regarding Ethan's fall in the diner where he worked.

Oxford Shooter Ethan Crumbley Fell, Hit Head in Bizarre Incident Last year

Crumbley appears to have fainted while on the job last year.

www.tmz.com

...This video shows then 14-year-old Crumbley in a diner where he worked back in September 2020. Crumbley is walking in a work area and you see him disoriented and wobbly before he collapses, hitting his head on a cabinet. In the video, first obtained by the Daily Mail, he struggles to get up before someone comes over and helps.

The diner's owner says someone on the staff called his parents and sent him home. His mom blamed it on Ethan not eating that day. But the owner has her doubts, saying she thinks it might've been related to his medications...

While the above article doesn't mention that Jennifer told the diner owner not to call 9-1-1 following the incident, I have read that elsewhere. Why wouldn't a parent want their child checked out in the Emergency Department or Urgent Care after a fall that included hitting his head? Was it because Ethan didn't have health insurance coverage, or was his mother concerned that alcohol and/or drugs might be found in his system? Was it ever determined that Ethan took medications that were prescribed for him as the diner owner suggests?

Jennifer attributes the fall to Ethan not eating that day. How often did that happen? Why didn't he eat? Did Ethan's parents not provide their son with nourishing foods? Not eating is a symptom of depression, and if Ethan was in the habit of not eating healthfully on a regular basis, that in itself should have been an indication that something was not right with their son. JMO

This story doesn’t make sense I’ve always thought. This would have been workers’ comp and EC would not have been responsible for paying the medical bills associated with his fall. I was curious about alcohol/drugs showing up, but I believe it’s against the law to drug test minors (employment setting).