OK OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024

[Universecalling]

I wouldn't be surprised to learn these women were diverted to a separate location where they encountered an unexpected confrontation of some kind. After the incident, the vehicle was returned to the location where it was eventually found, at a spot chosen because it was several miles before their original destination.

If something like this occurred, the chances of finding evidence from the perpetrator/s in the vehicle would be high.

Good point.
And we don’t know if the place where the car was found IS the place where the crime originated.
Hopefully, digital footprint will tell that story.
I just hope the children were nowhere near it.

 

[NDreu]

*OSBI says abandoned vehicle had info gathered showing signs of foul play. Looking for both women. Several tips rec’d. Everything is on table. They are hopeful women are still alive. We understand teachers and others concerned. schools decision for lockdown. Public isn’t in immediate danger. Trying to identify poss suspects. Another LE agency determined going to birthday but OSBI still investigating themselves where women were headed to. Family, friends spoken to. This is extremely sad and unfortunate. Will update on sm Facebook or twitter. Still need tips.

IDK, imo none of this commentary from OSBI is remotely positive or even understandable given that the event happened 5 days ago.

It baffles me that in a place where the nearby town has a population of 1,900 and the landscape is flat as a pancake and totally barren, that OSBI didn't even post a picture of the found vehicle and provide gps data points about the location and time found so as to engage locals who might have been out and about. The local commercial hog and cattle operations no doubt have consistent truck traffic and most trucks these days have dash cam and other cameras on board. Why no calls for dash cam footage to the public when a local hog operation is right down the road from where the victims vehicle was found? Zero public effort seems to have been made to engage the public imo. Why?

Why no effort from OSBI to even engage Crimestoppers to encourage tips in an organized fashion as it has proven quite successful in other tragic missing cases. 5 days post event in a missing/murder case imo an eternity and it sounds like OSBI is nowhere based on the latest comments.

If I were the families of the missing/murdered I would be enraged with this kind of Press Statement from OSBI after FIVE DAYS. Cell data could be available within 3 days, social media scrubbing and phone analysis could also be done in short order too imo and given the lack of traffic in the areas its not like a cell tower dump would have all that much data either imo.

Little about the reality of this case vs. the words being spoken by OSBI make much sense given the amount of time that has passed. This has me wondering what else could be happening in the background that requires more time and finesse from LE?

If OBSI doesn't have the resources or technology to address what needs to be done and per the prior comments of OBSI Spokesperson about the inability to complete the simple task of verifying whereabouts of individuals that are under Court Order to be in a specific place at a specific time, then I'm scratching my head wondering what all is going on here and why not bring in the FBI as their presence in OKC is extensive and knowledge of the State deep?

Very discouraging.

MOO

 

[Universecalling]

I'm still very concerned about these oil wells in the area. There are no forests, no rivers or lakes, no wilderness, the area is as flat and desolate as a pancake....where could these woman be? I have these awful Watts scenarios in my mind.
Were they transported far away? Where's the nearest wilderness area.
Then I suppose they could be buried in the middle of a vast field or under a barn.
We need them to be found.

I just keep thinking of all that farm land and farm animals… particularly of the swine variety.

 

[Valhall]

I'm still very concerned about these oil wells in the area. There are no forests, no rivers or lakes, no wilderness, the area is as flat and desolate as a pancake....where could these woman be? I have these awful Watts scenarios in my mind.
Were they transported far away? Where's the nearest wilderness area.
Then I suppose they could be buried in the middle of a vast field or under a barn.
We need them to be found.

There is a lake (of sorts), yes, there is. Wild Horse Lake. I have actually submitted a tip to LE concerning this lake for reasons I won't discuss here.

 

[otto]

Why didn't they meet in a public place at Elkhart, rather than Veronica doing all the driving? Curtesy of sharing some of the driving, and having the children dressed, packed, and ready-to-go goes a long way in calming custody upheaval.

The children hand-over, per earlier X photos, seems to be 18 miles south of Elkhart. The total trip is 45 miles. The hand-over location looks like an abandoned gas station. Why an isolated building rather than their custodial home or a public place?


Google Map

 

[Universecalling]

Why didn't they meet in a public place at Elkhart, rather than Veronica doing all the driving? Curtesy of sharing some of the driving, and having the children dressed, packed, and ready-to-go goes a long way in calming custody upheaval.

The children hand-over, per earlier X photos, seems to be 18 miles south of Elkhart. The total trip is 45 miles. The hand-over location looks like an abandoned gas station. Why an isolated building rather than their custodial home or a public place?

View attachment 495107
Google Map

Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, in fact I think the Four Corners was a meet up place agreed upon in court docs.

 

[PommyMommy]

About 3:49 in this video, NewsNation’s Brooke Shafer says she spoke with a witness who saw the car on Saturday morning. He didn't get close enough to notice if there were any broken windows or anything like that, but he said the car was parked sort of in the brush right off the highway, not necessarily a normal spot that you would pull over...

Oklahoma missing moms foul play evidence found near abandoned car | On Balance​

@otto, see map at about 3:37

 

[otto]

The best way to avoid digital detection is to leave electronics and cell phone at home, and to drive an old vehicle. Otherwise, data tracking will be used to identify which cell phone IDs were in that area at the time they vanished.

Assuming this was planned, and since this was a broad daylight abduction of two women on a rural road, chances are a truck was used to transport two injured adults away from their car. Chances are their kidnapper wouldn't drive far with two bodies in the back of the truck before either hiding them better, or disposing of them. Hypothetically.

 

[kccorona]

It baffles me that in a place where the nearby town has a population of 1,900 and the landscape is flat as a pancake and totally barren, that OSBI didn't even post a picture of the found vehicle and provide gps data points about the location and time found so as to engage locals who might have been out and about. The local commercial hog and cattle operations no doubt have consistent truck traffic and most trucks these days have dash cam and other cameras on board. Why no calls for dash cam footage to the public when a local hog operation is right down the road from where the victims vehicle was found? Zero public effort seems to have been made to engage the public imo. Why?

Why no effort from OSBI to even engage Crimestoppers to encourage tips in an organized fashion as it has proven quite successful in other tragic missing cases. 5 days post event in a missing/murder case imo an eternity and it sounds like OSBI is nowhere based on the latest comments.

If I were the families of the missing/murdered I would be enraged with this kind of Press Statement from OSBI after FIVE DAYS.

^^SBBM^^

I really feel that the fact that no information has been requested from the public (aside from general call for tips), is because they (law enforcement) may have all 99% of what they need in terms of evidence, but are waiting on a crucial detail to seal up their case before moving forward with arrests or however the situation may end up.

I think I commented earlier on that the silence from family on this case did not give me a good feeling about what may potentially already be known by law enforcement and what of that they have shared with family.
While we know that at least one family member has told media that "authorities instructed them to decline media interviews for the time being" (source), the fact that they are for the most part respecting this request, and aren't posting or speaking about frustrations regarding the investigation (at least not that I've heard or seen published in mainstream media), makes me think they may have reason to stay quiet for now.

Although, from my own perspective, I suppose if LE told me it would hurt the investigation if I spoke about the situation to media, I would want to do everything possible to lend to positive outcomes. I just would think with two different families (JK and VB) involved, and the small town nature of word traveling around, there must be more than just good faith trust in following the request of LE preventing people from speaking out and publicly airing frustration with the lack of information.

All my own opinion and thoughts.

​

 

[otto]

Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, in fact I think the Four Corners was a meet up place agreed upon in court docs.

Four Corners is written on the building, but it appears to be abandoned. Why would the courts agree to this, or has the business closed more recently? Date on Google Maps is 2022.

Did Veronica know that she was picking up her children at a building covered in graffiti? Ordered by the courts? No one said anything?

I'm surprised that she and her appointed supervisor were comfortable with meeting at a rural, abandoned building to pick up two children involved in an acrimonious custody dispute. Who over-saw those arrangements for supervisors?


link


The sign has been taken down.

Google Maps

 

[PommyMommy]

APR 4, 2024

Missing Mom and Preacher’s Wife Vanish, Picking up Kids: Car Just Found

CRIME STORIES with Nancy Grace

www.crimeonline.com

[...]

Investigators then discovered their SUV at around 10:30 a.m. ...

[...]

...The abandoned vehicle was found on the side of the road, reportedly with one of the windows smashed out, but no indication of car trouble, a little over an hour after she left.

[...]

"They were going to a location called Four Corners Trading Post, which is just south of Eva, Oklahoma. Four Corners Trading Post is in a very rural area of Oklahoma. Honestly, there isn’t much there." - CrimeOnline reporter Nicole Partin

[...]

 

[AugustWest]

Four Corners is written on the building, but it appears to be abandoned. Why would the courts agree to this, or has the business closed more recently? Date on Google Maps is 2022.

Did Veronica know that she was picking up her children at a building covered in graffiti? Ordered by the courts? No one said anything?

I'm surprised that she and her appointed supervisor were comfortable with meeting at a rural, abandoned building to pick up two children involved in an acrimonious custody dispute. Who over-saw those arrangements for supervisors?

View attachment 495113
link

View attachment 495111
The sign has been taken down.
View attachment 495112
Google Maps

@otto

The 11-30-2023 Order entered by the Court specifies Four Corners as the pickup location. See: OSCN Case Details

That link is now dead, but was not at the time.

I suspect (no inside info) that the parties agreed to that area as the pickup point during that court appearance. It lies about halfway between Boise City (area where grandmother lives) and Hugoton, KS. It was probably just a convenient halfway point. I certainly wish the drop off would have been done in front of a police station, busy store, etc...

 

[Universecalling]

Four Corners is written on the building, but it appears to be abandoned. Why would the courts agree to this, or has the business closed more recently? Date on Google Maps is 2022.

Did Veronica know that she was picking up her children at a building covered in graffiti? Ordered by the courts? No one said anything?

I'm surprised that she and her appointed supervisor were comfortable with meeting at a rural, abandoned building to pick up two children involved in an acrimonious custody dispute. Who over-saw those arrangements for supervisors?

View attachment 495113
link

View attachment 495111
The sign has been taken down.
View attachment 495112
Google Maps

Honestly, I don’t think this was the first or only time they used this location.

I don’t know the area and if there are any other public locations close to his mother’s house. She very well could have refused the pick up at her property. How contentious this separation was, nothing would surprise me.

It’s just sad all around that 6 or 7 children may be left motherless. And for what? Revenge? Rage driven to win at any and all costs?
Even animals behave better than humans.

 

[otto]

Can someone refresh my memory as to where the birthday party was? Initially I thought the party was where they were driving to but then I heard they were taking the kids back to where VB lived for the party. Thanks.

This is my understanding at this time.

"She was going to get her kids for a birthday party, and she never made it," Singer said.
...

Singer said Kelley and Butler were supposed to pick up the children in Texas County and return to Hugoton for the birthday party, which was scheduled for Saturday morning. Butler's car was found in an extremely rural area, and they were nowhere to be found.

"Their vehicle was found abandoned near Highway 95 and Road L. This was just south of Elkhart, Kansas, in rural Texas County," said Hunter McKee, a spokesperson for OSBI."

koco.com

 

[otto]

APR 4, 2024

Missing Mom and Preacher’s Wife Vanish, Picking up Kids: Car Just Found

CRIME STORIES with Nancy Grace

www.crimeonline.com

[...]

Investigators then discovered their SUV at around 10:30 a.m. ...

[...]

...The abandoned vehicle was found on the side of the road, reportedly with one of the windows smashed out, but no indication of car trouble, a little over an hour after she left.

[...]

"They were going to a location called Four Corners Trading Post, which is just south of Eva, Oklahoma. Four Corners Trading Post is in a very rural area of Oklahoma. Honestly, there isn’t much there." - CrimeOnline reporter Nicole Partin

[...]

Car stopped. Window was smashed. Evidence in the car indicates something sinister happened (blood ??).

The husband has evidence that he may have been in rehab at the time they vanished. Suggestions that he checked into rehab after they disappeared seem unfounded.

"The abandoned vehicle was found on the side of the road, reportedly with one of the windows smashed out, but no indication of car trouble, a little over an hour after she left.
...

Partin added that investigators said something found inside the vehicle led them to believe that something sinister happened. On Sunday, the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation (OSBI) called the disappearance “suspicious.”
...

Butler’s former husband, according to Partin, has a criminal history of substance abuse and domestic violence but has not been named a suspect. There is also evidence that he may have been in rehab when they vanished."

crimeonline.com

 

[PommyMommy]

Car stopped. Window was smashed. Evidence in the car indicates something sinister happened (blood ??).

The husband has evidence that he may have been in rehab at the time they vanished. Suggestions that he checked into rehab after they disappeared seem unfounded.

"The abandoned vehicle was found on the side of the road, reportedly with one of the windows smashed out, but no indication of car trouble, a little over an hour after she left.
...

Partin added that investigators said something found inside the vehicle led them to believe that something sinister happened. On Sunday, the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation (OSBI) called the disappearance “suspicious.”
...

Butler’s former husband, according to Partin, has a criminal history of substance abuse and domestic violence but has not been named a suspect. There is also evidence that he may have been in rehab when they vanished."

crimeonline.com

See document in this tweet.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1775647640761372699

 

[otto]

See document in this tweet.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1775647640761372699

I suppose it's helpful to know where she worked, but it seems unlikely that her abduction is related to work.

Coincidences happen, but some people believe that there's no such thing as a coincidence. The fact that one of the women was picking up her children during an acrimonious custody dispute, the other woman was there by chance ... and they were abducted 5 miles from the children hand-over location? That seems like more than a coincidence.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

AugustWest said:
"I suspect (no inside info) that the parties agreed to that area as the pickup point during that court appearance. It lies about halfway between Boise City (area where grandmother lives) and Hugoton, KS. It was probably just a convenient halfway point. I certainly wish the drop off would have been done in front of a police station, busy store, etc..."
End Quote

I agree with the above but would like to add:
Having listened to numerous contentious hearings, I've seen judges and arbitrators make some pretty random decisions on where the exchange will take place, by looking at a map, and sometimes it's not where either of the parties requested.
Asking for LE 's present as a part of the order, is not a doable request, a judge has no ability to assign an officer to be at a specific location and time on a regular schedule.

But anyone has a right to call 911 and explain why they want a civil standby during an exchange that is soon to happen. It will depend on that agency's policy and availability and what they are told by the caller.

I've seen people hire private security or an off-duty officer (for departments that allow off duty work) to be at exchanges. My daughter was able to use a Target store, which is covered with cameras. I hate thinking of this mother having few options and no say in that horrible location. I'm sure she must have felt a little safer since she had a witness with her.

One problem is, when a female asks for protection or a safer location, during exchanges, some judges see that as her just being a B and her attorney is afraid to push the issue and tick off the judge. MOO

Like the rest of you, can't express my hope for the fate of the kidnappers.

 

[Ladyotm]

It seems a lot of sleuthers are leaning towards the custody battle being the catalyst for what happened to these women. If VB already had supervised visits with the children, what made this visit a threat that necessitated someone "getting rid of her"?

Could the broken out window be the result of gunshots? Nothing so far suggested that either woman tried to call 911, so whatever happened did so very quickly and without any warning, IMO.

I believe investogators know exactly who they're looking for.

 

[Deepinthought52]

If premeditated, why both women? Someone could have ambushed whichever woman was the target when they were alone. And not on the way to picking up kids. Perhaps whoever did this thought it would appear to be a random roadside attack if there were two people.

jmo

Perhaps because other woman was witness to what happened and/or person angry other woman supporting intended victim. Jmo