Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #2

[FacelessPodcast]

This video captures a nighttime stroll through Setagaya. Despite the late hour, the streets appear bustling with activity, with many people still out and about. The video also features scenes of train stations and trains.

Yes, absolutely. Setagaya is the most populous ward in Tokyo after all!

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Going back to the issue of Mikio’s computer:

 

[Janitor101]

This video captures a nighttime stroll through Setagaya. Despite the late hour, the streets appear bustling with activity, with many people still out and about. The video also features scenes of train stations and trains.

Such a nice video....some of these streets are so lovely, so clean, and appears to be so safe. Would the street and suburbs have been crowded with revelers given that the Japanese New Year was due to commence around the time of the murders?

 

[Incoherent]

That's exactly what I have (seemingly unsuccessfully) been trying to explain.

Your contention is that if one sound was heard, others should have been also. But it's not necessarily that simple. The loft ladder was likely heard because of a combination of factors specific to the loft ladder.

Those exact factors most likely don't apply to any other person, object, or part of the house. Different floor levels, different wooden beams, different acoustics, echoes, resonances, amplification and propagation of the sound.

None of that means other sounds *wouldn't* have been audible. I'm just saying we don't know. The only people who really know are the TMPD investigators who conducted experiments in the house. But whilst we know they had concerns, they've never published the full results of those experiments so we can see precisely what those concerns were.

It seems as I have not been coming off as intended either, this is not my contention this is my disbelief and dissatisfaction about the answers given by the Irie’s. I thought I’d mentioned that many times.
But it is not only me that thinks this way, it is also the Chief, the professional sound guy, and others involved too.

But regardless, all we’re left with is what the Irie’s reported. And that’s what has been accepted as an answer for what was and wasn’t heard that night. Astonishingly.

 

[Incoherent]

This video captures a nighttime stroll through Setagaya. Despite the late hour, the streets appear bustling with activity, with many people still out and about. The video also features scenes of train stations and trains.

Lovely video! This is actually Chitose Karasuyama station, which is the closest to the house and a 15 minute walk from it. It’s the station area family regularly shopped at. It captures just what it’s like here. Thanks for posting!

 

[Incoherent]

Such a nice video....some of these streets are so lovely, so clean, and appears to be so safe. Would the street and suburbs have been crowded with revelers given that the Japanese New Year was due to commence around the time of the murders?

Not so much revellers (though they’d be about) but it absolutely would be very crowded. It’s a very busy time of year here and a lot has to be done and prepared for.

 

[Sor Juana]

The sounds we hear inside and outside of a house depend on their frequency and how they're transmitted through different materials. Low-frequency sounds travel through walls more easily, while high-frequency sounds may be attenuated. The sound produced by a wooden ladder dropping on a wooden floor typically consists of low-frequency components and can be quite intense due to the impact. Low-frequency sounds have longer wavelengths, allowing them to travel through barriers like walls and windows more effectively. On the other hand, high-pitched screams may have shorter wavelengths and lower intensity, making them less likely to travel through barriers and be heard from outside. Sound can be attenuated or absorbed by different materials. While solid materials like wood are good conductors of sound, they can also absorb some of the sound energy. When a ladder drops on a wooden floor, the sound is transmitted through the wooden structure, amplifying it and allowing it to be heard outside. However, high-pitched screams may be partially absorbed by the walls and windows of the house, reducing their intensity and making them less audible from outside. Street life generates some ambient noise, such as traffic, wind, or some such. These background noises can mask or drown out high-pitched screams, making them difficult to hear from a distance.

 

[Sor Juana]

Going back to the issue of Mikio’s computer:

View attachment 496802

Thanks for posting this one. This is interesting. In the photo, we can see two monitors, a keyboard, and a mouse, along with something else that's a bit unclear. It could be a second keyboard covered with something or possibly something else entirely. What's interesting is the resemblance of the second computer to a NeXT Workstation, known for its power and early use as a first web server, and it's use in academic settings and education sector. I'm guessing that Yasuko used this workstation for her work. As for Mikio's computer, to me it looks like a PC-98 from NEC, based on the keyboard shape and monitor design, model mid-year 2000, although it's hard to be certain.

 

[jepop]

Thank you for such a considered and thorough thread @FacelessPodcast.

Just in relation to neighbours stating they didn't hear screaming:
I wonder about whether it is realistic to assume that victims will always scream when they are fighting for their lives. It's been noted by several knowledgable posters on the Moscow, Idaho student murders thread, that when someone is trapped and fighting for their life, the energy needed for the physical struggle may preclude screaming or at least preclude the sort of screaming which Hollywood has taught us to expect. I can fully imagine that if Mikio was ambushed, in his shock and in the immediate need to try and preserve his life, all energy would go to this end: in physically struggling to try and ward off his attacker. I envisage grunts rather than screaming.Moo

And from what I read, it's thought Yasuko and Nina were initially ambushed in the loft whilst they were in bed? Again I can envisage that shock and immediate need to preserve life may have precluded high pitched screaming. Not sure ofcourse exactly how that first horrific attack on the mother and child proceeded, but killer may have initially struck both simultaneoulsy and it's not hard for me to imagine Yasuko's energy being immediately directed towards protecting herself and her child: no time to scream, no time to call out because the body's priority is to fight for life.Moo

When the killer left the loft I can hardly imagine Yasuko's and Nina's terror, but again it makes sense to me that Yasuko would have made the decision to get out of the loft but quietly; and perhaps told Nina to try and be quiet. I feel sure that in her terror Nina was a good girl and would have tried to do what mummy said . And perhaps Nina, who would have been in severe shock, would have been somewhat mute at that point.Moo.

I do not want to think about what happenned once they left the loft; the sheer terror that Yasuko and little Nina must have felt. But having to again try and ward off someone clearly intent on killing (not open to begging/negotiation), Yasuko's body may simply not have prioritised screaming. Moo.

These are just my thoughts and speculation on why next door may not have heard any screaming: perhaps there actually wasn't any or at least not much. Just to add, I do fully get why TKMD are miffed with neighbours' claim they did not hear any unusual sounds (apart from the thud which is likely to have been the loft ladder being put up if I've understood correctly?). In the struggling there surely would have been thumps and grunts Imo and perhaps some crying from Nina at some point, though this last is really hard for me to guess with any feeling of certainty. All Moo

 

[Charlot123]

The most obvious reason why the ladder might be heard, but nothing else, is that the ladder closes up into the ceiling/attic space and everything else (aside from the initial attack on Yasuko and Niina) happened down in the main house.

Something as simple as the location in the house could make all the difference. The loft ladder may have resonated in a way other sounds didn't because it was higher up in the structure.

Very interesting, especially since we don't know on what floor the Iries were staying during the attack on the Miyazawas. It might play a significant role.

 

[Charlot123]

Thank you for such a considered and thorough thread @FacelessPodcast.

Just in relation to neighbours stating they didn't hear screaming:
I wonder about whether it is realistic to assume that victims will always scream when they are fighting for their lives. It's been noted by several knowledgable posters on the Moscow, Idaho student murders thread, that when someone is trapped and fighting for their life, the energy needed for the physical struggle may preclude screaming or at least preclude the sort of screaming which Hollywood has taught us to expect. I can fully imagine that if Mikio was ambushed, in his shock and in the immediate need to try and preserve his life, all energy would go to this end: in physically struggling to try and ward off his attacker. I envisage grunts rather than screaming.Moo

And from what I read, it's thought Yasuko and Nina were initially ambushed in the loft whilst they were in bed? Again I can envisage that shock and immediate need to preserve life may have precluded high pitched screaming. Not sure ofcourse exactly how that first horrific attack on the mother and child proceeded, but killer may have initially struck both simultaneoulsy and it's not hard for me to imagine Yasuko's energy being immediately directed towards protecting herself and her child: no time to scream, no time to call out because the body's priority is to fight for life.Moo

When the killer left the loft I can hardly imagine Yasuko's and Nina's terror, but again it makes sense to me that Yasuko would have made the decision to get out of the loft but quietly; and perhaps told Nina to try and be quiet. I feel sure that in her terror Nina was a good girl and would have tried to do what mummy said . And perhaps Nina, who would have been in severe shock, would have been somewhat mute at that point.Moo.

I do not want to think about what happenned once they left the loft; the sheer terror that Yasuko and little Nina must have felt. But having to again try and ward off someone clearly intent on killing (not open to begging/negotiation), Yasuko's body may simply not have prioritised screaming. Moo.

These are just my thoughts and speculation on why next door may not have heard any screaming: perhaps there actually wasn't any or at least not much. Just to add, I do fully get why TKMD are miffed with neighbours' claim they did not hear any unusual sounds (apart from the thud which is likely to have been the loft ladder being put up if I've understood correctly?). In the struggling there surely would have been thumps and grunts Imo and perhaps some crying from Nina at some point, though this last is really hard for me to guess with any feeling of certainty. All Moo

Thank you very much for bringing up the Moscow, Idaho murders. It is another example of the situation when the witnesses' account raises a lot of questions. However, the witnesses themselves are innocent. The only thing one could wish is "if only they were better witnesses", but it doesn't change the outcome. Same may be true for the Iries. They might have heard something but misinterpreted it for the reasons that might be never known to us, but are probably known to Tokyo Police Department. Or else, they could have been totally preoccupied with what was happening in their part of the house.

Honestly, one thing that comes to my mind in this situation is "started celebrating the coming New Year one day too early and slept through the murders and it was awkward to admit it the next day" (and by the way, this is in synch with that 50-minute gap between Haruko entering the house and calling the police - what if she rushed back and it took her some time to wake everyone else up?). There may be another, very simple explanation of "why" that no one wants to get into, btw.

What I mean to say, the fact that the tenants in the Irie's half didn't hear anything doesn't look suspicious to me. I think it is their right not to explain things to the public. I have two different scenarios in my mind, both are extremely simple. However, the Iries have the right for privacy, too. I would not be surprised if Tokyo Police essentially, knows the answer but doesn't want to elaborate. They probably cleared the Iries pretty early, and that's what matters. JMO.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Thanks for posting this one. This is interesting. In the photo, we can see two monitors, a keyboard, and a mouse, along with something else that's a bit unclear. It could be a second keyboard covered with something or possibly something else entirely. What's interesting is the resemblance of the second computer to a NeXT Workstation, known for its power and early use as a first web server, and it's use in academic settings and education sector. I'm guessing that Yasuko used this workstation for her work. As for Mikio's computer, to me it looks like a PC-98 from NEC, based on the keyboard shape and monitor design, model mid-year 2000, although it's hard to be certain.

The NeXT computers were also used in graphic design work; they really were Steve Jobs' answer to Apple after he was kicked out of the company.

I agree that it looks a lot like a NeXT. In a previous post where I mentioned Apple and Sun Microsystems, I *almost* added NeXT but thought it might have been too obscure--and also that the NeXT might be a little outdated by 2000, being an early-mid 90s system. The PC-98 (which I'm not familiar with) was apparently very popular in Japan but not really very well known outside of it?

With Mikio working for a large international company, I'd be surprised if he did his work on a Japan-specific system. The NeXT seems to be exactly the kind of thing Interbrand might have used, so if I had to guess, I'd think that is more likely to have been Mikio's work computer. Yasuko certainly could have used it as well, but I'm not sure if her work would have required it.

Based on my limited knowledge of the PC-98, it sounds like more of a family computer. Whereas the NeXT was very definitely a "professional" system.

If there were two different computers, I'd also be curious to know which of them Mikio was using to check his password-protected e-mail, and which of them the killer used for five minutes.

 

[lilykaluva]

Thank you very much for bringing up the Moscow, Idaho murders. It is another example of the situation when the witnesses' account raises a lot of questions. However, the witnesses themselves are innocent. The only thing one could wish is "if only they were better witnesses", but it doesn't change the outcome. Same may be true for the Iries. They might have heard something but misinterpreted it for the reasons that might be never known to us, but are probably known to Tokyo Police Department. Or else, they could have been totally preoccupied with what was happening in their part of the house.

Honestly, one thing that comes to my mind in this situation is "started celebrating the coming New Year one day too early and slept through the murders and it was awkward to admit it the next day" (and by the way, this is in synch with that 50-minute gap between Haruko entering the house and calling the police - what if she rushed back and it took her some time to wake everyone else up?). There may be another, very simple explanation of "why" that no one wants to get into, btw.

What I mean to say, the fact that the tenants in the Irie's half didn't hear anything doesn't look suspicious to me. I think it is their right not to explain things to the public. I have two different scenarios in my mind, both are extremely simple. However, the Iries have the right for privacy, too. I would not be surprised if Tokyo Police essentially, knows the answer but doesn't want to elaborate. They probably cleared the Iries pretty early, and that's what matters. JMO.

i also wonder to what degree just being confused and sleeping might play into it. Presumably these ppl had never heard a murder before and shock can instigate major denial. Tokyo isn't exactly known for violent home invasions and their brains may have made up alternate explanations to assure them it was fine. And then there's the reality that even if one of them started to get very worried, if no one else in the house is responding, then surely it's fine and can't be your family being brutally murdered next door.

As for the sleep aspect, about two weeks ago I woke up at 3 am to the sound of someone kicking my door. I convinced myself I was dreaming until it came again and my dog leaped off my bed and ran snarling towards the door. And even then I just made sure it was locked and fell back asleep (according to the apt cameras it was my neighbor who was drunk and thought they were at the wrong apt, apparently). Which is kind of wild to me when I woke up the next day that I just did that so easily instead of like... calling for the police or my neighbors whom I'm close with.

So I'm not sure I buy that they heard nothing, but I also can think of many reasons why they might have heard something and their brains convinced them they weren't hearing what they were actually hearing. And then the guilt after would probably be immense and the shame, as well, of realizing you might have been able to intervene and didn't.

 

[Charlot123]

The NeXT computers were also used in graphic design work; they really were Steve Jobs' answer to Apple after he was kicked out of the company.

I agree that it looks a lot like a NeXT. In a previous post where I mentioned Apple and Sun Microsystems, I *almost* added NeXT but thought it might have been too obscure--and also that the NeXT might be a little outdated by 2000, being an early-mid 90s system. The PC-98 (which I'm not familiar with) was apparently very popular in Japan but not really very well known outside of it?

With Mikio working for a large international company, I'd be surprised if he did his work on a Japan-specific system. The NeXT seems to be exactly the kind of thing Interbrand might have used, so if I had to guess, I'd think that is more likely to have been Mikio's work computer. Yasuko certainly could have used it as well, but I'm not sure if her work would have required it.

Based on my limited knowledge of the PC-98, it sounds like more of a family computer. Whereas the NeXT was very definitely a "professional" system.

If there were two different computers, I'd also be curious to know which of them Mikio was using to check his password-protected e-mail, and which of them the killer used for five minutes.

Good question. I would also like to know what Internet provider they used. There were a few in Japan, but not every house had a computer at that time. I never ever read about the Miyazawas provider.

 

[Rush4087]

Regarding Haruko, I’ve never understood why her (the) reason for the 50 minute delay is not well known by investigators and others trying to help solve the case. What reason did she give TMPD for waiting 50 minutes? Did they not ask her that specific question? Are they withholding that specific information? Maybe it’s been discussed and I missed it.

I find the delay unexplainable, and at this point, I don’t think we’ll ever know the reason. But I’m not willing to try as hard as some to come up with a reason no matter how improbable, such as: she fainted, she must’ve blacked out, she was in shock, she went into a fugue state, she was confused, she must have fixed a cup of tea to calm her nerves, she hyperventilated she’s old.

My thinking in fact is that most people’s reaction (including the elderly) would be just the opposite: when confronted with such a shocking scene involving living family, I think most people would run (or walk as quickly as they could) to the nearest phone and dial TMPD immediately.

Jmo

 

[Sor Juana]

The NeXT computers were also used in graphic design work; they really were Steve Jobs' answer to Apple after he was kicked out of the company.

I agree that it looks a lot like a NeXT. In a previous post where I mentioned Apple and Sun Microsystems, I *almost* added NeXT but thought it might have been too obscure--and also that the NeXT might be a little outdated by 2000, being an early-mid 90s system. The PC-98 (which I'm not familiar with) was apparently very popular in Japan but not really very well known outside of it?

With Mikio working for a large international company, I'd be surprised if he did his work on a Japan-specific system. The NeXT seems to be exactly the kind of thing Interbrand might have used, so if I had to guess, I'd think that is more likely to have been Mikio's work computer. Yasuko certainly could have used it as well, but I'm not sure if her work would have required it.

Based on my limited knowledge of the PC-98, it sounds like more of a family computer. Whereas the NeXT was very definitely a "professional" system.

If there were two different computers, I'd also be curious to know which of them Mikio was using to check his password-protected e-mail, and which of them the killer used for five minutes.

NeXT workstations were commonly used by students in universities to help them learn better. These workstations provided a structured environment with clear rules and fewer distractions, which made it easier for students to stay organised and complete tasks. They were also used by autistic societies for similar reasons, especially in teaching autistic children. Working on workstations can be really helpful for children, including those who are autistic, because they make it easier for children to understand what's expected of them; they can be adjusted to fit each child's needs and interests; they teach children how to learn independently. In simple terms, workstations are like a helpful tool that makes learning easier for everyone, especially for children who need a bit of extra support.

When it comes to the PC-98, it was essentially Japan's version of Apple. It boasted similar graphic capabilities, its own operating system, and an interface in kanji characters. While PC-98s were a lot cheaper than Apple computers, I believe they might have been used in Mikio's company due to security reasons. Although I can't be completely certain since the photo is blurry, my best guess is that it depicts a PC-98 and a NeXT workstation.

I second your question even though am not sure what the answer gives us. It's possible that the NeXT workstation was accessed, especially considering my suspicion that the killer may have been on the autism spectrum and had previous interaction(s) with Yasuko or Rei in a clinical setting for autistic children. While it may seem like a speculative assumption, there are several pieces of evidence that support this theory. If the NeXT workstation wasn't password protected, the killer could have attempted to use it. However, since Mikio had used the computer (which one?) just minutes before the attack, it's also possible that either computer was used. Regardless of which computer was active, I believe that any of them could have had access to email or webmail features. It's likely that work-related emails were accessed via the NeXT workstation.

 

[Sor Juana]

Good question. I would also like to know what Internet provider they used. There were a few in Japan, but not every house had a computer at that time. I never ever read about the Miyazawas provider.

There wasn't a lot of competition amongst internet service providers in the 1990s and 2000. According to JPNIC, Usen Broad Networks (now USEN Corporation) provided first FTTH connections in Setagaya.
Source: JPNIC Archives

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Thank you for such a considered and thorough thread @FacelessPodcast.

Just in relation to neighbours stating they didn't hear screaming:
I wonder about whether it is realistic to assume that victims will always scream when they are fighting for their lives.

Great post, @jepop. To be clear, it is not my opinion that it makes no sense that nobody screams. I have no idea. It is that the Chief / LE frankly do not believe that nothing was heard. This is not off the back of simple suspicion. It is based on questioning the family at length / acoustic experiments in the houses. It may well be that the Miyazawas were all silent themselves. With respect to the murders you mention, I find it hard to imagine that Yasuko, as he returned with the carving knife, did not beg him to spare the life of her child. Or not screaming at the agony that followed. But that’s neither here nor there. What matters: the Chief does not believe that events could play out as they did without anyone hearing anything next door. That’s the struggles, the falling down the stairs, the attacks in the attic and on the landing, so on, so forth.

So, we’re free to assume he / his colleagues are wrong. It is simply that I am yet to see one single solid reason to assume this.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

It's possible that the NeXT workstation was accessed, especially considering my suspicion that the killer may have been on the autism spectrum and had previous interaction(s) with Yasuko or Rei in a clinical setting for autistic children. While it may seem like a speculative assumption, there are several pieces of evidence that support this theory.

RSBM: Very respectfully, as the verified author here and as someone who has discussed the killer with LE, I would contest there is anything whatsoever that points to autism. Of course, we’re free to theorise and go over ideas. But I can tell you that this did NOT form part of the Chief’s thinking. Moreover, I believe mods asked us to refrain from diagnosing unknown individuals somewhere around page 25 or 26.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Regarding Haruko, I’ve never understood why her (the) reason for the 50 minute delay is not well known by investigators and others trying to help solve the case. What reason did she give TMPD for waiting 50 minutes? Did they not ask her that specific question? Are they withholding that specific information? Maybe it’s been discussed and I missed it.

With respect, passing out does explain it, though. Of course, immediately phoning the police sounds like the only logical response. But unless you yourself have walked in on most of your family slaughtered, I’m just not sure logic can really apply in that moment. At any rate, the Chief wouldn’t get into that part of the case. I can only say he had zero concerns about it — or at least that’s how it seemed to me. The sounds / lack thereof next door, that’s a different matter altogether.

Haruko has since passed away and was never suspected of anything untoward.