Has Any Ramsey Defender Ever Given an Explanation for the Pineapple?

[oceanblueeyes]

I don't know the case, but more importantly, how is that no one absolutely no one woke up while this pedophile was feeding her pineapple and she of course was as quiet as a mouse. Lets not forget she was murdered around midnight. They had just gotten home. John conveniently took a melatonin. Not a seconal, a melatonin. And slept through the whole shebang.

You think that much noise would have been made just by eating pineapple? Didn't that home have 3-4 different levels to it and a lot of square feet that was built like a maze?

In my own home if I am in our bedroom I cant hear the sounds that are coming from the other end of our home.

 

[Jane Osa]

Oceanblueyes - actually, it was Patsy herself who said that she WOULD have heard if anyone was in the kitchen (the scenario she was responding to was IF Burke & Jonbenet were in the kitchen while she was asleep).

 

[LI_Mom]

I had no idea John took Melatonin - is he nuts!?

A former boyfriend, who's a psychiatrist & he did studies on melatonin - believe me, you don't want to be taking that. Unless he had a strange condition indeed. Now, my DR. friend was looking to melatonin as a culprit, so to speak, with so-called 'psychedelic' or abnormal experiences - trying to see if the body is naturally 'hard-wired' for said experiences, etc. He didn't think it was conclusive enough & he moved onto other naturally occurring substances...however, you don't want to mess with melatonin - if you had a job where you were up all night in bright light, maybe you'd need a supplement.

Where did you find this information about John?

It's in the Ramsey book "Death of Innocence" (page 9)

 

[Rino]

You think that much noise would have been made just by eating pineapple? Didn't that home have 3-4 different levels to it and a lot of square feet that was built like a maze?

In my own home if I am in our bedroom I cant hear the sounds that are coming from the other end of our home.

You contradicted yourself :waitasec:

 

[Medea]

Oceanblueyes - actually, it was Patsy herself who said that she WOULD have heard if anyone was in the kitchen (the scenario she was responding to was IF Burke & Jonbenet were in the kitchen while she was asleep).

LOL no wonder she wouldn't agree to be interviewed by LE without John, if her limited statements were this wacky, no telling what kind of nonesense she would have come up with if her handler wasn't present!!!

 

[Jane Osa]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jane Osa
I had no idea John took Melatonin - is he nuts!?

A former boyfriend, who's a psychiatrist & he did studies on melatonin - believe me, you don't want to be taking that. Unless he had a strange condition indeed. Now, my DR. friend was looking to melatonin as a culprit, so to speak, with so-called 'psychedelic' or abnormal experiences - trying to see if the body is naturally 'hard-wired' for said experiences, etc. He didn't think it was conclusive enough & he moved onto other naturally occurring substances...however, you don't want to mess with melatonin - if you had a job where you were up all night in bright light, maybe you'd need a supplement.

Where did you find this information about John?

It's in the Ramsey book "Death of Innocence" (page 9)

I find that very interesting - to give you an idea, the research was trying to explain if one could have naturally ocurring experiences of the 'paranormal' for instance - alien abductions....melatonin is regulated by light cycles - too much, too little can create hallucinations, etc. - melatonin figures in our sleep/dream cycles, as well. Too much could create a 'dreamlike' situation while alert and awake.

 

[LI_Mom]

I find that very interesting - to give you an idea, the research was trying to explain if one could have naturally ocurring experiences of the 'paranormal' for instance - alien abductions....melatonin is regulated by light cycles - too much, too little can create hallucinations, etc. - melatonin figures in our sleep/dream cycles, as well. Too much could create a 'dreamlike' situation while alert and awake.

Even if he didn't take a large enough dosage to create such effects... you have to wonder if Patsy woke him up with 'terrible news' & he was still SO groggy he went along with her crazy 'plans.'

 

[Medea]

I used to take melatonin to sleep and I never had any adverse effects or nightmares or paranormal experiences, I had much more vivid dreams taking Ambien than melatonin...neither of which would cause me to engage in a hair brained scheme disguise the accidental death of a child as a brutal sex murder committed by a pineapple toting, tea drinking, stun gun wielding, ransom note practice writer, pedophile killer.

 

[Jane Osa]

It could also create some pretty weird situations in the middle of night concerning his own behavior - hallucinations, being paranoid, not knowing if it's real or he's asleep or what - he could be doing things pretty much in a subconscious state. These are extreme scenarios - but, melatonin isn't something to supplement with & these scenarios are why.

I think when herbs were first becoming popular people were using all sorts of things - and, of course, melatonin is not an herb (I can't recall what, if any herb, may increase it's production)- but, I think people thought it might be 'safer' than using drugs to help with sleep. I think most people know better these days....I just may email my DR. friend & see what he says in conjunction with the whole scenario at the R.s that night....

 

[Jane Osa]

I agree with you Medea. Any affects would be visible after prolonged use - just as going without sleep for a prolonged period can create some bizarre experiences & emotional states & that's due to the natural cycle of melatonin being disrupted because of the prolonged lack of sleep (presuming, as well, that prolonged lack of sleep also means a prolonged exposure to light which is what disrupts the cycle).....anyway - I think we digress a bit.....if my DR. has something interesting to say I'll post it.

 

[Medea]

I'm still shocked that anyone thinks the intruder fed her pineapple.

Even if I thought the Ramsey's were innocent, which I don't, a much more logical answer would be that Patsy fed the pineapple to JonBenet and lied about it after initially forgetting and being paranoid that she was a suspect so not admitting her mistake, OR, that JonBenet got it herself and was in the kitchen which is where the intruder got her and Patsy didn't hear it like she thinks she would have.

But, its hard for me to keep all the various intruder theories straight...he's hiding in the house for a couple of hours where he has time to rifle through John's papers and find the $$ bonus figure and write a couple of practice ransom notes...then he either uses a stun gun on JonBenet or he lures her down with the promise of pineapple, then he ties her up with small cord, sexually attacks her, garrotts her [but doesn't strangle her], and then bashes her over the head with a flashlight, puts her in different panties than she was wearing when she went to bed [not sure when he picks these up], redresses her, puts a blanket on her and then goes back upstairs to write the ransom note, then slinks back out the small window never to be seen nor heard from again. Meanwhile the Ramsey's wake up, Patsy finds the ransom note, puts back on her same clothing, calls police and everyone else she knows...and so on. The intruder might be a thin Santa who left no fibers, or he might be someone the Ramsey's knew well, well enough that JonBenet would willingly eat pineapple in the middle of the night w/no fuss and who miraculously escaped suspicion for over 10 years, or a total stranger who got lucky with the $118 number.

?That anyone believes this sequence of events is mindboggling?

 

[Solace]

I'm still shocked that anyone thinks the intruder fed her pineapple.

Even if I thought the Ramsey's were innocent, which I don't, a much more logical answer would be that Patsy fed the pineapple to JonBenet and lied about it after initially forgetting and being paranoid that she was a suspect so not admitting her mistake, OR, that JonBenet got it herself and was in the kitchen which is where the intruder got her and Patsy didn't hear it like she thinks she would have.

But, its hard for me to keep all the various intruder theories straight...he's hiding in the house for a couple of hours where he has time to rifle through John's papers and find the $$ bonus figure and write a couple of practice ransom notes...then he either uses a stun gun on JonBenet or he lures her down with the promise of pineapple, then he ties her up with small cord, sexually attacks her, garrotts her [but doesn't strangle her], and then bashes her over the head with a flashlight, puts her in different panties than she was wearing when she went to bed [not sure when he picks these up], redresses her, puts a blanket on her and then goes back upstairs to write the ransom note, then slinks back out the small window never to be seen nor heard from again. Meanwhile the Ramsey's wake up, Patsy finds the ransom note, puts back on her same clothing, calls police and everyone else she knows...and so on. The intruder might be a thin Santa who left no fibers, or he might be someone the Ramsey's knew well, well enough that JonBenet would willingly eat pineapple in the middle of the night w/no fuss and who miraculously escaped suspicion for over 10 years, or a total stranger who got lucky with the $118 number.

?That anyone believes this sequence of events is mindboggling?

I concur.

 

[LI_Mom]

I think they also found fibers in her BED.... so we have to consider that this attack started in her bedroom... she's tied up & THEN brought downstairs.



If she was killed upstairs, I'd think THIS is when an intruder might start to think 'Gee, this kidnapping ain't going so well.'

If she was still alive upstairs, why does he SUDDENLY abandon his stated plans to TAKE HER out of the house for his payday.... $118,000?

Instead he says, 'So far, so good.... I think I'll spend an extra 2 or 3 hours in the house since they won't be waking up until 5:30 am.... plenty of time left to rape her & play dress up.'

lol

 

[Jane Osa]

I thought her being 'tied-up' was a part of the staging - she wasn't tied-up while conscious & she never struggled thereafter - so, if she were killed upstairs she was tied up thereafter (doesn't make much sense aside from staging since she can't struggle) and brought down....one way or another the being tied-up points to staging....

Burke has to be considered 'on the scene' for the pineapple-eating incident...the tea bag. So, if they didn't get up on their own together whilst the parents slept, or Patsy/John didn't get them tea and pineapple then our caring intruder prepared the pineapple & tea for them....however, the issue there is Burke is on the scene with the 'intruder'....the entire scenario is absurd. Logically, we can say Patsy got the pineapple & tea for her children & they lied about it for whatever reason later....OR Burke & Jonbenet were indeed up together that night which casts suspicion on Burke (whom I've never entirely discounted - the whitled handle, no semen & the molestation was used with a handle, the swiss knife(?), the tea bag & the parents lying about him being awake at the 911 call).....

 

[Jane Osa]

Now I think about it - the one thing that would clear Burke is that his DNA isn't around & I don't think he'd have killed her on purpose & I don't think he'd use the forethought anyway to use gloves, etc. You would assume his DNA would be around - although if certain things haven't even been tested.....and if his parents covered his tracks, I suppose it's possible - but, unlikely.

 

[Medea]

I agree she wasn't tied up while conscious but my understanding of some of the intruder theories is that they think she was first tied up and then when she struggled or the intruder became unhappy with her that he bashed her head in after and that the head bash occured in the basement.

I don't believe this, I think the head bash came first and then the cords...and while the bruising looks bad in the autopsy photo it would not have been apparently to whomever was doing it at the time, but I will admit it IS hard to imagine a parent pulling the cord that tight on their own child even if they believed the child was dead.

 

[LI_Mom]

I thought her being 'tied-up' was a part of the staging - she wasn't tied-up while conscious & she never struggled thereafter - so, if she were killed upstairs she was tied up thereafter (doesn't make much sense aside from staging since she can't struggle) and brought down....one way or another the being tied-up points to staging....

Burke has to be considered 'on the scene' for the pineapple-eating incident...the tea bag. So, if they didn't get up on their own together whilst the parents slept, or Patsy/John didn't get them tea and pineapple then our caring intruder prepared the pineapple & tea for them....however, the issue there is Burke is on the scene with the 'intruder'....the entire scenario is absurd. Logically, we can say Patsy got the pineapple & tea for her children & they lied about it for whatever reason later....OR Burke & Jonbenet were indeed up together that night which casts suspicion on Burke (whom I've never entirely discounted - the whitled handle, no semen & the molestation was used with a handle, the swiss knife(?), the tea bag & the parents lying about him being awake at the 911 call).....

Yes, if it's staging... it still could have occurred in more than one location.

I'm with you.... I think Burke was awake that night & I think he might have been the catalyst that unleashed Patsy's anger.

It makes much more sense to me that the mother of chronic bedwetters (Burke had this problem also in the past) would not over-react to one more set of wet sheets but she MIGHT be likely to over-react if her children are up & making noise & possibly misbehaving instead of asleep.

 

[LI_Mom]

I agree she wasn't tied up while conscious but my understanding of some of the intruder theories is that they think she was first tied up and then when she struggled or the intruder became unhappy with her that he bashed her head in after and that the head bash occured in the basement.

I don't believe this, I think the head bash came first and then the cords...and while the bruising looks bad in the autopsy photo it would not have been apparently to whomever was doing it at the time, but I will admit it IS hard to imagine a parent pulling the cord that tight on their own child even if they believed the child was dead.

Not with their eyes open.... but would it be easier to imagine IF you believed they closed their eyes?

 

[LI_Mom]

Now I think about it - the one thing that would clear Burke is that his DNA isn't around & I don't think he'd have killed her on purpose & I don't think he'd use the forethought anyway to use gloves, etc. You would assume his DNA would be around - although if certain things haven't even been tested.....and if his parents covered his tracks, I suppose it's possible - but, unlikely.

Even if Burke WAS awake.... that doesn't mean he had to be part of the staging... he could have been sent upstairs while his parents 'fixed' the mess he started.

 

[Solace]

Even if Burke WAS awake.... that doesn't mean he had to be part of the staging... he could have been sent upstairs while his parents 'fixed' the mess he started.

But if he hit her, it would have been an accident. But then again, I know I heard this, that Patsy lied about his hitting JB when she was a baby. If that is true, she did not want social services looking into it, which they would have.

I just don't think he did it. He asks them point blank in the morning "what have you found".