Mexico Mexico - David Hartley, 30, Lake Falcon, 30 Sept 2010 #1

[pinkpuddytat]

Did I read this right, you don't have to register your gun in Texas? So you can just go out and buy a gun and fill out no paperwork to register that with LE? Yowzer!

You don't in most US states. I'm in Pennsylvania and there's no gun registration here. A few years back, the state police tried to use the federal background check system to do some underhanded registration of who was purchasing guns (though there's no information about what sort of guns one purchases or how many are purchased on a single background check) and they got slapped down hard by the federal government because it's patently illegal to do this.

 

[darnudes]

Has anyone attempted to do a time line of events here? I understand there was a video of DH & TH on the way to the lake. Do we have a time on that and the time the 911 call was made?

It would be interesting to see how long they were out on the lake.

Salem

Not yet. I think they were on the lake for under 3 hours. I might put a time line up later today. Good idea Salem!

 

[BaileyandBella]

A few pages back, it was said that TH never filed an official report. Does anyone know if that was or is still true?

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I find it weird that he is still not just considered a missing person after all we only have the wives word that he is dead and she is not a physician or Medical examiner. I don't understand their hurry in having a memorial service when technically, IMO, he should still be just a missing person. What if, per chance, he is still alive, perhaps the bullet just grazed him and he passed out. JMO.

From this article, the witness described what TH told him when she came onto the bank...

http://www.krgv.com/content/news/st...er-on-Falcon-Lake/uswGSvm9Hku0eC9foze9Yw.cspx

"She could see the gunshots wounds to his head. His brains were falling and he was not breathing," he said. The man tried to console her. She told him she and her husband David had gone to old Guerrro on the Mexico side of the lake to take pictures of a Spanish mission.


I think she knew he was no longer alive and that the bullet did not just graze him and he passed out.

JMO

 

[darnudes]

Timeline

Lunch at subway - time unknown (TBA)

11.30am - David and Tiffany pulled over by DPS Troopers

It shows DPS troopers pulling over the Hartley’s at 11:30 a.m. in Rio Grande City last Thursday. That’s about three hours before Tiffany says Mexican pirates killed her husband on Falcon Lake.

http://www.krgv.com/content/news/st...-Footage/EgRZrhfMlESq8QM2bZJ4rw.cspx?rss=1651


2.30pm - 2.45pm - Attack occurred

Action 4 News is being told that four boats surrounded them, and opened fire on them around 2:30 p.m. this afternoon.
http://www.valleycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=519448

Authorities said the shooting happened about 2:45 p.m. Gonzalez said the couple never spoke to the gunmen, and the woman raced her watercraft to the shores of the first lakeside homes she could reach and asked for help. He said they had ridden over to Mexico for sightseeing and to take photos of a famous church in Old Guerrero.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/world/50392719-68/mexican-gonzalez-lake-hartley.html.csp

 

[alwaysonmymind]

Six killed in gun battle in area being searched for David Hartley's body


While three congressmen held a Thursday afternoon press conference about border security, Mexican soldiers were engaged in a gun battle that left six people dead on the other side of the Rio Grande.

Mexico's Ministry of National Defense (SEDENA) is reporting that the gun battle in the same area being searched for the body of missing American David Hartley.


The SEDENA reported that Mexican soldiers returned fire and killed six men who were protecting some kind of clandestine construction project.

Authorities also reported that a Mexican soldier was also wounded in the battle.

Mexican soldiers reporting seizing ammunition and the following other items:

- 7 Assault Rifles
- 38 clips
- 1 Rocket Launcher
- 1 Dodge Ram Truck

Barriales is located near the ruins of Guerrero Viejo, a Spanish colonial town that is seasonally flooded by waters from Falcon Lake.

http://www.valleycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=523516

 

[Tuffy]

I don't think rifles have to be registerd, but handguns do. I'll have to ask my son, he would know.

In Texas you don't have to register your guns, pistols or otherwise.

 

[Tuffy]

According to TY on facebook, David had a 228 (whatever that is) she was holding one in a photo and she told one of her friends it was David's when asked about it.

Do you know what a 228 would be?

She is probably talking about a Sig Sauer P228. Its a handgun.

I'm not sure why we are sleuthing TY at this point either. Owning guns is not illegal, and does not indicate a drug runner in Texas. Plenty of us gun owners post about them on facebook too. There isn't anything to be secretive about it, so I am not surprised that she hasn't deleted the posts.

Letting someone use your gun isn't illegal, and assault rifles are not illegal. Buying a gun for someone else who legally can't purchase a gun is illegal, but there is no indication that she is doing that.

I don't see her as someone involved with what happened at all. MOO

 

[darnudes]

She is probably talking about a Sig Sauer P228. Its a handgun.

I'm not sure why we are sleuthing TY at this point either. Owning guns is not illegal, and does not indicate a drug runner in Texas. Plenty of us gun owners post about them on facebook too. There isn't anything to be secretive about it, so I am not surprised that she hasn't deleted the posts.

Letting someone use your gun isn't illegal, and assault rifles are not illegal. Buying a gun for someone else who legally can't purchase a gun is illegal, but there is no indication that she is doing that.

I don't see her as someone involved with what happened at all. MOO

Thanks, I thought it might have been a Sig Sauer from some google searches. I think the information is interesting and not judging anyone for owing guns - I'd be surprised to hear that David didn't take a gun with him to the lake given the dangers, now that we know he owned guns.

 

[Tuffy]

Thanks, I thought it might have been a Sig Sauer from some google searches. I think the information is interesting and not judging anyone for owing guns - I'd be surprised to hear that David didn't take a gun with him to the lake given the dangers, now that we know he owned guns.

It doesn't surprise me too much. Owning a gun doesn't necessarily equal carrying a gun. If he felt safe going out there, and didn't usually carry a gun, he might not have taken it out on the water. I think he must have felt pretty sure they wouldn't be in danger, if he took his wife out there.

Plenty of people carry all the time, but more people carry selectively, if at all.

 

[Kateyes]

I just want to clarify my position on this tragedy. While I have absolutely no doubt that Tiffany's reports of what happened are an accurate accounting of the shooting, I still have some doubts as to exactly why Tiffany and David were riding jetski's in that area. Yes, to see the church, but what is missing from her report? Just seems like there is more to this. I had to wonder if they were there to rendevous in order to make a payment on some previous illegal transaction, and something went terribly wrong. Who knows - I hope Jennifer's account of the tragedy is not only accurate but also inclusive, and that there is nothing more to what happened. But, as of now, something really smells bad here, IMO. For the record, I find JH's story believable, but I still wonder if she hasn't left something out. Time will tell - more than anything I pray that DH's body will be recovered.

 

[darnudes]

It doesn't surprise me too much. Owning a gun doesn't necessarily equal carrying a gun. If he felt safe going out there, and didn't usually carry a gun, he might not have taken it out on the water. I think he must have felt pretty sure they wouldn't be in danger, if he took his wife out there.

Plenty of people carry all the time, but more people carry selectively, if at all.

So safe David and Tiffany worked out a plan, according to Tiffany, of what to do if they were approached by pirates??. Either she's lying and they did not work out a plan or they knew the risks involved and there was indeed danger and they both knew it and planned for it.

You can't have it both ways. When Tiffany got a lot of serious questions re the pirate activity on the lake she added in details of them working out a plan in case of attack. I'll have to go and find her quotes on this, I'm running on memory here.

 

[Tuffy]

So safe David and Tiffany worked out a plan, according to Tiffany, of what to do if they were approached by pirates??. Either she's lying and they did not work out a plan or they knew the risks involved and there was indeed danger and they both knew it and planned for it.

You can't have it both ways. When Tiffany got a lot of serious questions re the pirate activity on the lake she added in details of them working out a plan in case of attack. I'll have to go and find her quotes on this, I'm running on memory here.

Don't get me wrong, darnudes. I'm not supporting Tiffany's story at all. I'm only saying that to me, the fact that he owns guns doesn't mean he necessarily brought one with him, or usually carried one.

It would be interesting to know if he was a CHL holder, and if he usually carried.

 

[4BB]

*IF* they had been part of some drug running. Would drug dogs be able to detect the scent of drugs in her jet ski's dry compartment? Of course unless the other jet ski was the only one carrying the drugs.

Side note~ There's no type of search that has to be done to these watercrafts before they are launched at the boat landing??? If not, then jeez...it's like an open opportunity.

 

[4BB]

If she just beached it, then how did she get it back on to the trailer? I am very familiar, as we used to have water-crafts.

If she backed her trailer down into the water on the beach, it likely would have gotten stuck in the mud or sand. Backing a trailer down into the water is how a watercraft ( Jet-ski, Seadoo etc) is loaded onto the trailer. Just like a boat.

The water-crafts they had (with seats) would be very heavy and not easily lifted.

I would assume she beached in on privately owned waterfront property. Possibly with some sort of ramp. Most waterfront property owners have small ramps. I'm sure LE considers it evidence so one of their officers with gloves probably loaded it either at the private property or drove it around to the boat landing. JMO

 

[keeponsearching]

Has anyone ever seen the show locked up abroad? Some episodes are about either a couple or a single person, going by plane to either carry drugs, or money, and they are in it for the money that they will get. While they tell the story most of them talk about how they want to back out and are scared. But they can't.
I am really sad that this man is gone, how scary for her to go through that, especially if they were just sight seeing. But it is possible that they were going to do a run of some sort, and decided against it at the last second...

 

[wynnterday]

Just as I thought, no suspects....geez I wonder who leaked such inaccurate info


http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/39612179#39612179

 

[BaileyandBella]

Just as I thought, no suspects....

UGH.....why am I not surprised.

 

[alsmom]

UGH.....why am I not surprised.

You and me both. I feel sorry for his mom

 

[Tuffy]

*IF* they had been part of some drug running. Would drug dogs be able to detect the scent of drugs in her jet ski's dry compartment? Of course unless the other jet ski was the only one carrying the drugs.

Side note~ There's no type of search that has to be done to these watercrafts before they are launched at the boat landing??? If not, then jeez...it's like an open opportunity.

If she had drugs in her jet ski at any time a drug dog should be able to detect it.