Stranger Abduction Theories #2

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Just My Opinion.....

If a stranger took Kyron, Terri would not be behaving the way she was/is...

Her words/actions are that of a guilty person.
 
Bern said:
If a stranger took Kyron I think his body would have been found. I think TH set this child up for a person to "take" him. Not to kill him but to get rid of him. I have posted before, that the time frame for her to have killed him, disposed of him along with stops at the drugs stores and having a chat with a friend all with a baby doesn't add up. So they think she had help. Help with what? There was no evidence of blood or trauma in her truck or the car. So when did it take place and where? I really feel strongly he is alive and living with another person. Now I don't know who this person is, or if it is a family who wanted a child, or a group (cult) or some underground movement that took him because she claimed he was abused, I just don't know. So I send out flyers. I hate when people say " I told you so", but if one flyer brings him home from any where, I am going to scream it so loud here, with Joy, Joy, Joy......So I don't know if this is considered a stranger abduction, but to Kyron it would be a stranger.
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My feeling is that he is still alive and somewhere. Whether he was taken underground or sold, until Kyron is found I will not give up putting out flyers and spreading the word about his disappearance. None of us should stop putting out flyers until we know for certain where he is. JMO.
 
Hello, everyone. My name is Rayne, and I'm new here. I thought I'd give a little introduction before my first post - hope this is okay!

I've worked in the legal field for 19 years, and many types of legal (criminal) cases hold interest for me. Every once in awhile an unusual case that makes national headlines catches my attention, and then I follow it ... and that's what happened last summer with Kyron - (I'm not local, I'm from Ohio, though I love Oregon from many visits) - not only from the aspect of being interested in legal things, but ... well, this little boy had the sweetest face ... so yeah, he drew me in, big time. (sniff)

Throughout the months of 'no news' I would search from time to time online, trying to find any updates. During one of those exhaustive searches today, I found this website, and began reading through some of the threads.

Well, I read through a great deal of the posts today - a really great deal of them - don't tell my boss!! :blushing: and I was thinking about all I'd learned, in the last 8 months, and here today. And then I found this particular thread about alternate theories, and knew that's where I most wanted to post. I apologize SO much for this being so long ... but I didn't see anything else just like this here, so I wanted to put it out there.

Just some of my thoughts: for whatever reason and whatever it's worth, I have a funny feeling that TH wasn't necessarily involved in this. I know a lot of things point that way, and if it turns out she was, I won't be terribly surprised. But if I was forced to pick a direction right now, I'd vote against it. My reasons may not make sense, they're just my opinion, but that's why I'd like to post them here - to get feedback, see what others think.

I am far from an expert on 'how people behave after abducting a child' or even on all the high-profile abduction and/or murder cases. But it seems from what I do remember reading that often when a child has been killed, it wasn't necessarily premeditated and carefully planned. It may be that there were 'issues' for a long time, a parent or step-parent that might have had relationship issues with the child, and personal and/or mental problems of their own - but it seems like that final fateful moment came about more in the "heat of the moment" ... a moment of anger or something happens and they snap, and do the unthinkable ... and then have to scramble to try to cover their tracks. Please don't misunderstand, I'm not 'making excuses' for these heinous acts ... just making the comment that it seems like it often comes about that way. Please feel free to correct me if I'm way off base, as I said, I haven't kept track of a lot of these types of cases.

But in such a case, the perpetrator would not usually have the time or means to conceal the crime completely - that's why often, they do eventually get caught. The complete and total lack of any apparent progress or resolution in this case (despite statements from MCSO, we haven't seen it yet, so ... I'm going on the common knowledge) smacks of whoever did this having plenty of time to prepare and really cover their tracks ... something that a 'spur of the moment' crime doesn't offer. I think if TH had done something awful to Kyron, in order for it to remain this well concealed for this long, she'd have had to plan it well ... and it just doesn't seem like her actions that day tell of intricate planning. (If she had planned it that well, she'd have surely had a better alibi than "I drove around randomly for an hour and a half trying to comfort the baby" - and who doesn't know that their cell phone can be traced!?).

On the other hand, if she'd done something on the spur of the moment, I don't think it would have been able to have remained this well concealed for this long. Even if she'd begged a dear friend for help after the fact ... multiple people can't usually keep their mouths shut or not betray themselves if they're not the cold-blooded, premeditating kind in the first place. They do something to give themselves away. JMHO

Again, I'm not talking about abductions to keep a child alive, but - unfortunately - murders of children. And I'm sure there are cases that contradict what I said, but that's what I remember from some I have followed. (FWIW, I think she may well have been up to something else nefarious, and that she never expected to have her movements that day questioned - which might explain her weird behavior).

Another thought: I'm no expert on kids, having none of my own, but my boyfriend has lived with me for 6 years, and his kids are now 12 1/12 and 7 ... so I've watched them grow up. The 7 year old is smart but otherwise I would say a fairly average acting kid. And I can tell you that if someone concocted an interesting enough story, he'd buy it. He loves fantasy and role-playing at this age, but even more that that, he loves to feel he's participating in something important, that he 'matters' or he can make a difference somehow. He wants to feel "grown-up" and doing "important" things.

He is also, I'd have to fairly say, a bit gullible - not meaning to be 'mean,' but as someone else pointed out, kids this age don't have the life experience to really analyze some things. And if someone told him they were taking him somewhere at his mom or dad's request, or to help his mom and/or dad in some way, (a) I think he'd buy it, and (b) if he thought his mom's or dad's safety was involved, he'd play the part like a Shakespearian professional. He can be put off forever with promises of "later" - so if someone told him his mom and/or dad were going to "join them later," that could fly for a long time, IMHO. Which leads me to believe that a stranger abduction could in fact be pulled off with a 7 year old, even in this modern age of instant information everywhere.

I may be over-generalizing, so I welcome contradictory opinions, so I can hone my own thought processes. But more than anything, whether any of us are right or wrong, I hope and pray that the current 'evidence' is misleading and Kyron is found alive and well, and reunited with his parents and friends. (the recent use of cadaver dogs sickens me, I wish I could think of a better reason for it ... maybe they just don't know and are covering all bases). Thank you so much for reading, if you made it this far. ;)
 
Rayne said:
Another thought: I'm no expert on kids, having none of my own, but my boyfriend has lived with me for 6 years, and his kids are now 12 1/12 and 7 ... so I've watched them grow up. The 7 year old is smart but otherwise I would say a fairly average acting kid. And I can tell you that if someone concocted an interesting enough story, he'd buy it. He loves fantasy and role-playing at this age, but even more that that, he loves to feel he's participating in something important, that he 'matters' or he can make a difference somehow. He wants to feel "grown-up" and doing "important" things.

He is also, I'd have to fairly say, a bit gullible - not meaning to be 'mean,' but as someone else pointed out, kids this age don't have the life experience to really analyze some things. And if someone told him they were taking him somewhere at his mom or dad's request, or to help his mom and/or dad in some way, (a) I think he'd buy it, and (b) if he thought his mom's or dad's safety was involved, he'd play the part like a Shakespearian professional. He can be put off forever with promises of "later" - so if someone told him his mom and/or dad were going to "join them later," that could fly for a long time, IMHO. Which leads me to believe that a stranger abduction could in fact be pulled off with a 7 year old, even in this modern age of instant information everywhere.

I may be over-generalizing, so I welcome contradictory opinions, so I can hone my own thought processes. But more than anything, whether any of us are right or wrong, I hope and pray that the current 'evidence' is misleading and Kyron is found alive and well, and reunited with his parents and friends. (the recent use of cadaver dogs sickens me, I wish I could think of a better reason for it ... maybe they just don't know and are covering all bases). Thank you so much for reading, if you made it this far. ;)
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SBM (Snipped By Me)

Welcome, Rayne!

Your thoughts about the nature of kids in general seem pretty sound to me. I think it's normal for kids that age to be easily fooled by adults. We're older than they are, we need some advantage over all that youthful energy!

I've begun to wonder if Kyron would even realise he'd been abducted. It's not like kids that age watch the evening news and things like that.

As for use of cadaver dogs, I'm not sure what else they would use in searching areas that look like they are five miles north of nowhere. A child Kyron's age, well, I just don't think would have the ability or skills to live for eight months in the wilderness.
 
I know that Kyron was wearing a CSI shirt the day he went missing; was it ever revealed that he liked to watch CSI? If he did, then I'm sure he was aware of kidnappings. Did he ever get the stranger danger talk? I'm not saying that he couldn't have been brainwashed but if he was watching CSI and knew about kidnappings, then I think it would have taken him a while to accept the situation as his new life. I think if he was abducted by a stranger, he would have put up a huge commotion since if he watched CSI or heard the stranger danger talk, he would be aware of what was happening to him. There would be a struggle in the car, at the abductor's house or wherever he took Kyron, etc. I know that adults can fool kids but if the abductor told Kyron, "Your parents died and you're living with me," would a 7-year-old accept that explanation right away?

Also, I know that Steven Staynor was fooled by his abductor but that was before the days of stranger danger and perhaps a lot of kids back then weren't aware of kidnappers.
 
eileenhawkeye said:
I know that Kyron was wearing a CSI shirt the day he went missing; was it ever revealed that he liked to watch CSI? If he did, then I'm sure he was aware of kidnappings. Did he ever get the stranger danger talk? I'm not saying that he couldn't have been brainwashed but if he was watching CSI and knew about kidnappings, then I think it would have taken him a while to accept the situation as his new life. I think if he was abducted by a stranger, he would have put up a huge commotion since if he watched CSI or heard the stranger danger talk, he would be aware of what was happening to him. There would be a struggle in the car, at the abductor's house or wherever he took Kyron, etc. I know that adults can fool kids but if the abductor told Kyron, "Your parents died and you're living with me," would a 7-year-old accept that explanation right away?

Also, I know that Steven Staynor was fooled by his abductor but that was before the days of stranger danger and perhaps a lot of kids back then weren't aware of kidnappers.
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There are several video clips online of kids whose parents are absolutely certain their child knows "stranger danger" and would never, ever go off with a stranger without making a huge fuss.

And then, of course, when put into a set up situation, those kids go happily off with the person acting as an abductor. I remember one little girl's explanation so well because it was so innocent and sweet "but Mommy, that wasn't a stranger, that was Lucky's owner!" Lucky was the name of the non-existant dog that the actor used to lure the children with.

It seems to me that it is very difficult for many children to say "no" to an adult who seems normal and authoritative. Heck, it's difficult for adults to say "no" to other adults! For instance, it's a rare person who has never attended an event that they didn't really want to go to just because they didn't want to say no to the invitation.

Seven year olds, as I understand it, are still in the age where the difference between reality and fantasy is not completely clear to them. They see violence on TV and their parents explain that it is only make believe. So if a child is abducted by an adult who seems authoritative in a nice way, is this also make believe, like TV? I think there are a lot of kids who would be very confused but would try to placate the adult in charge, just because that's what kids do when uncertain.
 
Not to mention how many people go off with another adult as a date, someone they don't even know, and hope for the best...and we know how often that goes terribly wrong. I think adults are fooling themselves if they think their child can't be made to go off with a strange adult.
 
Although I am highly suspicious of TH, and I think she is probably involved, there is always the possibility that she is innocent.

I have racked my brains trying to figure out other scenarios. The thing is that the school seems like the very last place for a random stranger abduction, if in fact he was really inside by his classroom at the time. It seems too dangerous a place to try and abduct a random child. Perhaps if he had run outside to find TH because he forgot something he needed for the talent show or something, and he was already in the parking lot he might be vulnerable.

When my oldest was about 5 he came running out to me one morning as I was pulling out of the parking lot. He looked frightened to death and I could not figure out what was wrong at first. I stopped the car and got out quickly and he jumped in through the drivers door and then I saw the wet spot on his jeans. He was downright mortified that someone might see that his pants were wet. Apparently some older boys were in the younger kids bathroom and he did not want to go in there and then when he went into class the teacher said no, you just had recess so wait. LOL poor kid.

But anyway, NOBODY saw him run out to my car. I had extra clothes in the trunk and wipes for the baby so he cleaned up , changed and I took him back to class, without comment. But there was no Science Fair, so very few extra people out and about. But it did make me think that if he had wanted to he might have left the main school area himself.

I worked as a 'Playground Supervisor' for the kids school for several years. Essentially my job was to protect the kids from each other, and from random strangers, and to make sure they did not try and leave the campus. All of the possible exit gates were kept locked except the main door which was right by the front office. Even then, we had a long term issue with a mother who was not allowed to visit her children due to a custodial issue and a past attempt to take them out of the country. We were all on high alert, but she still tried.

The one time that she almost succeeded was when she hid in the girls bathroom and waited, hidden in the stall until one of her daughters came in. Luckily we had a rule requiring 'bathroom partners'- so the other girl ran to the office. But the mom had enough time to take her 7 yr old by the hand and get out to the parking lot before she was stopped. I think the bathroom was a potential trouble spot for Kyron if he was abducted. As previously noted, a perp could go unnoticed with a large tote on Science Fair day.

I agree with others that there may have been someone grooming him for a future abduction. But I think everyone who worked there was accounted for
in the aftermath. However there may have been a parent or stepparent or an older brother or baby sitter ? Someone who might have said, 'Kyron, help me carry this out to the van.'
 
GrainneDhu said:
There are several video clips online of kids whose parents are absolutely certain their child knows "stranger danger" and would never, ever go off with a stranger without making a huge fuss.

And then, of course, when put into a set up situation, those kids go happily off with the person acting as an abductor. I remember one little girl's explanation so well because it was so innocent and sweet "but Mommy, that wasn't a stranger, that was Lucky's owner!" Lucky was the name of the non-existant dog that the actor used to lure the children with.

It seems to me that it is very difficult for many children to say "no" to an adult who seems normal and authoritative. Heck, it's difficult for adults to say "no" to other adults! For instance, it's a rare person who has never attended an event that they didn't really want to go to just because they didn't want to say no to the invitation.

Seven year olds, as I understand it, are still in the age where the difference between reality and fantasy is not completely clear to them. They see violence on TV and their parents explain that it is only make believe. So if a child is abducted by an adult who seems authoritative in a nice way, is this also make believe, like TV? I think there are a lot of kids who would be very confused but would try to placate the adult in charge, just because that's what kids do when uncertain.
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Yeah but even if the kid goes into the car without a problem, wouldn't they eventually realize while the car is driving away that hey, this isn't right and then start a commotion? Like "Hey, I have to go to school. Why are you driving away from my school?" and then panic sets in?

According to a study there are 115 kids kidnapped every year by strangers. About 25 of those kids are between the ages of 6-11. 2% of stereotypical kidnappings (which include stranger abductions) are from a school, but it says there have been too few cases to make an accurate guess. In 4% of stereotypical kidnappings, the child was not returned and not located, although it says once again that there are too few cases of that nature to make an accurate guess. If Kyron was taken by a stranger, there was a 40% chance he was murdered.
 
Complicating matters further, it seems to me I have read here on Kyron's forum that the family had recently been 'working with' Kyron to learn better cooperation with adults. Which has always made me wonder whether he ever had a problem with disobeying adults to begin with--or whether someone had created this as a false issue to make sure that when the time came, Kryon would cooperate with any adult.
 
One possible problem in ruling out anyone associated with or attending the school that morning is the 8 hour lag before it was widely known he was gone. For instance an employee or another adult attending that morning could have left for an hour or so, unnoticed and been back at their station long before anyone was asking questions. Even driving off in their vehicle that morning, of all mornings, would not have been noticed, with the parents and other visitors departing. It just adds more people to the mix you might not normally have, with the 7-8 hours of no one knowing Kyron was missing.
 
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