TN TN - Karen Swift, 44, Dyersburg, 30 Oct 2011 - #2

[panthera]

Men that are violent towards their wives, or murder their wives, never make any sense to other people, yet it happens all the time. I think you make a good point ... the husband wouldn't be away from home for very long with the children in the house.

Agree, he wouldn't be away from home for long. What if both children woke up and couldn't find either parent? And they are old enough to talk to LE.

MOO

 

[belimom]

I'm having a hard time following your thoughts here. She could have parked the car out front, not used the garage. The hubby said he talked to her from the top of the stairs. I assume he may have heard her and the daughter come in the front door... or perhaps there is a door into the kitchen from the garage which is visible from the upstairs landing. I don't see what difference it makes as far as where she was when they spoke.

The car was not found at the end of the driveway, it was on the side of the highway about a 1/2 mile from the house. LE said it appeared she had made a U-turn to park on the other side of the road, pointed in the direction of the house. Maybe she realized the tire was going flat and intended to drive back home, but it went completely flat before she could make it. And perhaps some sicko came along about that time and saw a stranded woman and took advantage of the opportunity. Makes as much sense as the husband staging the whole thing. Women have been abducted from their driveways or mailbox or jogging just a few yards from their house.

Another thing that has been discussed. People do occasionally run out of medicinal supplies. Perhaps the child came down with a sudden 24-hour virus, vomiting and diarrhea and there was no Kaopectate or Immodium handy. Most mothers would not think twice about making a quick run to a convenience store to get medicine, even in the middle of the night. Heck, we've made a run to get coffee when we ran out, just so we could have it first thing in the morning!

Someone else mentioned that the mom and sick daughter went to bed downstairs and the little sister was in her room upstairs. The brother said that his 9 y.o. sister remembered her mom lying down with her and when she woke up her mom was gone and she was in bed with her little sister. Does it make sense to carry a sleeping 9 y.o. child UPSTAIRS??? Not to me!!

I've also only read that it was the 9 y.o. at the sleepover, not both girls. I believe this misconception that it was both was due to the thought that Mom would have been terrified to leave one daughter home alone with the dad, which I think is ludicrous. If she was so afraid of him, she wouldn't have still been living in the same house. Where are we getting the idea that he is violent? I've never seen that mentioned in any media report. Yes, some divorcing couples fight and a few end up dead, but it's not a given. Suspicious, maybe but not written in stone.

bbm

When I read that statement, I thought of Nancy Cooper. She had nowhere to go b/c Bradley Cooper (her husband) had cut off her money supply. She was staying at home and locking the door at night b/c she feared for her life. As it turned out, she had good reason to.

I'm not saying that the same thing is going on here, but I do think some women would continue living at home with a husband during a divorce: financial reasons, to keep the kids with both parents/easy transition, etc.

I don't think someone has to be abusive to kill their wives. Divorce can do strange things to people and cause them to exhibit behaviors that they otherwise wouldn't. Someone can snap in a matter of seconds. "The deeper the love, the deeper the hate".

 

[panthera]

Agree! At this point we could use more info about cell phone records, and flat tire. To me the flat tire, her cloths in the car, yet she isn't there - seems to be a staged crime scene!

If the tire was cut by a knife, it wouldn't make sense that she was where she was (going or coming from someplace)... if a nail or slower leak, air sensors should have warned her...
Considering things were supposed to be okay between her and hubby, won't she call him to help change tire?

And Karen, as someone who regularly worked out, could have walked home from where the car was found. It also makes no sense that *IF* she were abducted while on her way back home after the car broke down that the perp would return to the car and dispose of clothing in the bushes, or remove the clothing she was wearing, toss them in the bushes, and dispose of her body at another site.

MOO

 

[tarabull]

http://www.stategazette.com/story/1779590.html

In the article from Nov 1 - at the above link - they write that Box said Karen dropped her children off at her house on Willie Johnson Road.

100 % wrong
50 % wrong
0 % wrong

??????

 

[panthera]

http://www.stategazette.com/story/1779590.html

In the article from Nov 1 - at the above link - they write that Box said Karen dropped her children off at her house on Willie Johnson Road.

The phrase "dropped her children off" doesn't make sense if she had gone to bed with one of those children, and that child later woke at 6:00am and her mother wasn't there.

Totally confusing!

:waitasec:

 

[tarabull]

What's that saying "hey i don't write the news i just report it" (?)

and FWIW they stopped reporting a specific time thereafter.

Then we have the last report released about them conducting this missing person case as a criminal investigation with foul play involved, just as if they have a criminal suspect and will continue doing that unless foul play is ruled out. And that it is always critical to an investigation that they control when a potential suspect becomes aware of the evidence they hold against him or her. And by holding the evidence close to an investigation helps prevent potential suspects from being able to impede the investigation by developing false alibis, statements or destroying forensic evidence to avoid prosecution.

:waitasec:

 

[otto]

Had some time to kill and put this together ... it's approximately the house, based on the google map footprint. When we learn a little more about the interior or rear exterior, we can easily modify the shell.

 

[LindaG]

I've also only read that it was the 9 y.o. at the sleepover, not both girls. I believe this misconception that it was both was due to the thought that Mom would have been terrified to leave one daughter home alone with the dad, which I think is ludicrous. If she was so afraid of him, she wouldn't have still been living in the same house. Where are we getting the idea that he is violent? I've never seen that mentioned in any media report. Yes, some divorcing couples fight and a few end up dead, but it's not a given. Suspicious, maybe but not written in stone.[/QUOTE]

BBM
Nobody ever said or insinuated that the father would harm his daughter. This is a misinterpretation. I clarified this earlier.

 

[ThoughtFox]

OK, all you super sleuths have got me thinking. I have several loose ends of things I have read or heard. I wish I had had the fore-sight to save the links of everything I have read or heard, but I didn't. Sorry. This may answer questions for some, and raise questions with others.

1. It was reported early on that Karen's clothes were found outside of her car. The workout clothes which she kept in the car were still folded and arranged under a bush. The article said they appear staged. Her Halloween costume was also scattered on the ground.

It's always good to try and find a link, even if it isn't the one you remember. That way rumors don't get started and others don't get confused.

In this case, you are mis-remembering because the costume was in the car, according to Sheriff Box.

http://www.kfvs12.com/story/15967589/loved-ones-hold-second-vigil-for-missing-mother-of-four

Dyer County Sheriff Jeff Box said Swift's Halloween costume was still in the car, but not her purse. More than 40 officers from across the state have searched for days in the rural area and have discovered some items, including clothing.

"There's some items that could possibly be tracked to her," said Box. "But we definitely need to be sure before we say they are hers."

Box said DNA tests are being done on the items


Also this article mentions clothing:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/09/karen-johnson-swift-missing-clothing_n_1084468.html

Police trying to solve the disappearance of Karen Johnson Swift have recovered her clothing, the woman's friend reports. Swift, a mother of four, has been missing since her car was found abandoned on a rural Tennessee road on Oct. 30.

"They found her Halloween costume in the car. Some other articles of clothing that belonged to her -- a pair of jeans and a gray zip-up -- were found in some brush not far from her car. They confirmed [the clothing items] belong to her. They took DNA from her mother and compared it to DNA on the clothes," Swift's friend Laura Jane told The Huffington Post.

2. It was reported that her friends are speaking out that the marriage was volatile and that Karen would never leave the house that late at night, would never go with a stranger or someone she did not know well. Her friends are very vocal about who they think did this.

Her friend was quoted in Huffington Post.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/09/karen-johnson-swift-missing-clothing_n_1084468.html

"Their relationship was pretty volatile," Jane said. "She wanted to leave with the kids and start over. She wouldn't leave her kids behind. That was the only reason she was still in that marriage. She wanted them to have a stable environment until she got all her stuff together."

3. Karen's friends said she was not interested in dating, that she was focused on starting a new life with her children and that she always put her children first.

Can't find the link to that article, but you had written that in an earlier post according to my google search. Do you remember if that was something from a TV interview or from the newspaper?

4. Per Karen's father speaking to NG, Karen's scent was not picked up (by dogs) around or leaving her car.

It wasn't Karen's father, it was her brother. The transcript:
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1111/21/ng.01.html

JOHNSON: The dog where her vehicle was didn`t pick her scent up out of the -- out of the area. I`m thinking that somebody else drove that vehicle there.

GRACE: That is entirely possible. Karen may never have even been in that car when it was dropped on the side of the road.

Have you learned, Jeffery Johnson, whether the car tire had the air let out of it or was it actually punctured?

JOHNSON: That`s what we haven`t gotten no answers on.

5. This one is my own opinion as to whether a father would be callous enough to leave his children home alone. I am NOT referring to Karen's husband here, but other husbands, who have been found guilty of this kind of behavior in the past. Some do leave their kids alone, some harm the children to get back at the spouse, some harm the spouse in front of the children, some abandon their children. I think someone desperate enough to harm a spouse in such a way is desperate enough to leave his children alone. He has one thing on his mind. This is my own opinion.

Sure, if they were asleep and he didn't want to wake them up.

 

[LindaG]

Otto- Wow - good job. I am wondering if she parked in the garage or left the car outiside. Does this give you any ideas?

 

[belimom]

Otto- Wow - good job. I am wondering if she parked in the garage or left the car outiside. Does this give you any ideas?

DITTO! Otto - I'm very impressed with your map skills as well as your focus on the layout of the home. Thank you.

 

[otto]

Otto- Wow - good job. I am wondering if she parked in the garage or left the car outiside. Does this give you any ideas?

I have no clue ... it would depend on habit ... however, given that the garage is at the end of the house and there would be an entrance near the garage, it seems unusual that the family would normally use the front door, even when arriving at 1 or 2 in the morning. I would expect that because the garage is located where it is (end of the house), that residents would normally enter the house through a door closer to the garage. This is part of the reason why I find any comments about the husband talking to Karen at the bottom of the stairs as she was leaving the house unusual.

Also, I would expect that mom would drive into the garage if she was arriving so late with a child that wasn't feeling well.

I'm also rendering the rear of the house ... always takes a few minutes to make an image ... it's blank right now but I suspect there's a bay window and kitchen in the rear and other details that would help sort out the floor plan.

 

[otto]

I'm having a hard time following your thoughts here. She could have parked the car out front, not used the garage. The hubby said he talked to her from the top of the stairs. I assume he may have heard her and the daughter come in the front door... or perhaps there is a door into the kitchen from the garage which is visible from the upstairs landing. I don't see what difference it makes as far as where she was when they spoke.

The car was not found at the end of the driveway, it was on the side of the highway about a 1/2 mile from the house. LE said it appeared she had made a U-turn to park on the other side of the road, pointed in the direction of the house. Maybe she realized the tire was going flat and intended to drive back home, but it went completely flat before she could make it. And perhaps some sicko came along about that time and saw a stranded woman and took advantage of the opportunity. Makes as much sense as the husband staging the whole thing. Women have been abducted from their driveways or mailbox or jogging just a few yards from their house.

Another thing that has been discussed. People do occasionally run out of medicinal supplies. Perhaps the child came down with a sudden 24-hour virus, vomiting and diarrhea and there was no Kaopectate or Immodium handy. Most mothers would not think twice about making a quick run to a convenience store to get medicine, even in the middle of the night. Heck, we've made a run to get coffee when we ran out, just so we could have it first thing in the morning!

Someone else mentioned that the mom and sick daughter went to bed downstairs and the little sister was in her room upstairs. The brother said that his 9 y.o. sister remembered her mom lying down with her and when she woke up her mom was gone and she was in bed with her little sister. Does it make sense to carry a sleeping 9 y.o. child UPSTAIRS??? Not to me!!

I've also only read that it was the 9 y.o. at the sleepover, not both girls. I believe this misconception that it was both was due to the thought that Mom would have been terrified to leave one daughter home alone with the dad, which I think is ludicrous. If she was so afraid of him, she wouldn't have still been living in the same house. Where are we getting the idea that he is violent? I've never seen that mentioned in any media report. Yes, some divorcing couples fight and a few end up dead, but it's not a given. Suspicious, maybe but not written in stone.

There is nothing to suggest that anyone was sick enough to require a trip to the drug store. The child that didn't feel well was sleeping and unaware of her mother getting out of bed.

 

[LindaG]

Thought Fox - thanks, that ties up some loose ends for me.

 

[tarabull]

Had some time to kill and put this together ... it's approximately the house, based on the google map footprint. When we learn a little more about the interior or rear exterior, we can easily modify the shell.

Otto I see in the attached photo it's actually a window between house and garage on the front - not a door

....maybe door on back side?

Also, small lone window on main floor right hand wall if looking from front (left wall if looking from back)
(maybe bathroom)

[ETA: is that Karen's Murano parked in front of the garage?]

 

[Cheewawa007]

Otto I see in the attached photo it's actually a window between house and garage on the front - not a door

....maybe door on back side?

Also, small lone window on main floor right hand wall if looking from front (left wall if looking from back)
(maybe bathroom)

What good eyes you have there tarabull

 

[tarabull]

What good eyes you have there tarabull

:floorlaugh:
Chee!!!!!!!
:great:
All the better to see you with!!!
:seeya: :crazy:
Now if we could just SEE where Karen is!!!!
:waitasec:

 

[otto]

Otto I see in the attached photo it's actually a window between house and garage on the front - not a door

....maybe door on back side?

Also, small lone window on main floor right hand wall if looking from front (left wall if looking from back)
(maybe bathroom)

[ETA: is that Karen's Murano parked in front of the garage?]

Yes ... will add the window on the side wall ... looking at the sidewalk, and the house from the angle below, I made a guess that there might be a door there ... although I'm now thinking it might be on the side of the house rather than in the little connector piece between the house and the garage.

 

[Indy Anna]

Again, keep in mind that just because a person is not currently considered a suspect, that doesn't mean he/she has been ruled out as a future suspect. The non-suspect status is subject to change at any time. At this point, LE would not have conclusive forensic evidence to implicate one individual in the case.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/09/karen-johnson-swift-missing-clothing_n_1084468.html?

Because Hogshooter allegedly poisoned Swift's dog and lives in close proximity to her residence, investigators impounded his vehicle and searched his home after she went missing. Authorities did not find any items connecting him to Swift's disappearance and do not consider him a suspect.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/mother-missing-tennessee/story?id=14867155#.TtF1sLJCquJ

Swift is in the process of getting divorced and her husband has been interviewed by police and is not considered a suspect.

This statement, cited earlier, is from the first link above:

"Their relationship was pretty volatile," Jane said. "She wanted to leave with the kids and start over. She wouldn't leave her kids behind. That was the only reason she was still in that marriage. She wanted them to have a stable environment until she got all her stuff together."

Equally curious, is this statement from a friend (reported Nov. 7):

One of Swift's friends, who declined to give her name, said Hogshooter and Swift "may have had words" before she disappeared. Authorities have not said whether they suspect there is any connection between Swift's disappearance and Hogshooter, who is reportedly being held without bond at the Dyer County Jail.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/07/friends-family-missing-tennessee-mother-say-suspect-foul-play/

I wonder how soon those "words" the friend alludes to were spoken before KS disappeared.

 

[ginert]

There is nothing to suggest that anyone was sick enough to require a trip to the drug store. The child that didn't feel well was sleeping and unaware of her mother getting out of bed.

But didn't the eldest brother say his 9-year old sister went to a doctor and she remembered her mom walking her to the sister's bed at some point during the night? I think it is possible she never went to sleep. She laid down with her daughter until the daughter fell asleep and either a.) went back to the party or to meet up with whatever she wanted to share with her friend or b.) as she was laying with her daughter noticed her stuffy nose and decided to run out and get medicine since she was not sleeping yet anyways.