CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #5

[noodled1]

Ha ha! Good find, Po! It was in the first photo. It shows that the other lid was closed when they removed her body. And my photo shows that this other lid was left opened after they washed out the tanks. In that photo, the condition of EL's tank receptacle, suggests that it was often left open. Maybe the worker's habit is to leave the lids off. But then why would he lie to LE that the lid was closed when he found the body? This detail only matters if she killed herself, because LE are dusting the lid for her prints.

If she committed suicide, she had to open the lid to enter the tank.

looking at that top pic it seems you can sure tell which tank they pour the chlorine in which would probably make it the final tank in the loop before the water heads into the hotel. this could also mean that the other tanks are not considered as critical when it comes to securing them. could also explain why the water is so scummy looking in Elisa's tank

 

[dotdren]

Ha ha! Good find, Po! It was in the first photo. It shows that the other lid was closed when they removed her body. And my photo shows that this other lid was left opened after they washed out the tanks. In that photo, the condition of EL's tank receptacle, suggests that it was often left open. Maybe the worker's habit is to leave the lids off. But then why would he lie to LE that the lid was closed when he found the body? This detail only matters if she killed herself, because LE are dusting the lid for her prints.

If she committed suicide, she had to open the lid to enter the tank.

Hotels must provide sanitary water and it would probably be against the law to have open water tanks.

 

[hello people]

In news reports, the LAPD refer to the small hatch as the lid.

Oh right...I see, thanks

On a side note....what's up with the lengthy autopsy time?

Can someone give the lab dudes a carton of smokes or something to speed the process up??

 

[Borris]

Hello Everyone. What an interesting discussion. Like others, I was drawn into thinking about this case after viewing the very odd elevator footage. Although many issues have intrigued me, I would like to focus on one that I've got some questions about.

Where are her glasses? Have they been found, and, if so, where? As a near-sighted person, I would never travel without my glasses. Most glasses wearers undoubtedly do the same. Even if you wear contacts, the glasses are still a backup. I'm assuming that Elisa traveled with her glasses.

1. Did she leave them in her room? If so, I think she planned on leaving her room for just a short time. Maybe she was going to the bathroom, and perhaps the one on her floor was dirty or occupied, so she went up to the 14th. I'm assuming she was not staying on that floor, since then she would not be trying to take the elevator down, unless she wanted to get to the lobby because of a problem. Or she was sleepwalking.

2. Did she leave them on the roof, or possibly lose them there? If she was there with someone and things got creepy, she might hurry off without them. Or if she lost them, she might go to the lobby to get help in finding them. But then why would she press all the buttons? Even if she could not see them, she would know the lobby buttons would be near the bottom.

3. Did she leave them in another hotel room? Possibly on the 14th or 15th floor. If she was interested in and flirting with someone and things turned unpleasant, she might choose to leave ASAP and just leave her glasses.

4. Did she leave them in a shower room? If she got spooked when preparing to take a shower, she might have abandoned them there.

Or was she wearing contacts during the video? That seems unlikely because of the way she bends down to make out the numbers on the elevator buttons.

I guess there is no way to tell, but number 1 or 3 seem most likely to me. Any thoughts?

I think the glasses were in her room. Maybe someone saw her leaving her room and thought she would be gone for awhile, but in the elevator, she realized that she had to go back for the glasses and caught them in her room, stealing her medications.

The reason I think this is possible is that the LAPD reported her missing after the hotel said they had her personal items. This must have included her glasses. Her family reported that she did not have them with her. LE also said that they were not aware she had been taking medications. This is because her medications had been stolen and were not among the personal items that the hotel had in their possession.

 

[dotdren]

looking at that top pic it seems you can sure tell which tank they pour the chlorine in which would probably make it the final tank in the loop before the water heads into the hotel. this could also mean that the other tanks are not considered as critical when it comes to securing them. could also explain why the water is so scummy looking in Elisa's tank

No, the likelihood of the hotel treating their own water with chlorine is very low. That would mean that the plant needs a water treatment operator onsite. The water needs to tested to pass EPA regulations, etc ,etc... So no,they can't just add chlorine to it.

 

[TheRoger]

I've been thinking. Do the doors at the Cecil have peepholes?

 

[Borris]

Hotels must provide sanitary water and it would probably be against the law to have open water tanks.

It depends what function the water tanks are used for, not necessarily for drinking. Surge tanks, for example, can be used to help with pressure changes in old water pipes so that breakage and weird noises don't occur.

Someone in an earlier thread said that water safety isn't left up to individual hotels, but the city - and so the hotel is connected to the city water supply through basement pipes. I don't know if this is true. It's been among the items discussed.

 

[dotdren]

It depends what function the water tanks are used for, not necessarily for drinking. Surge tanks, for example, can be used to help with pressure changes in old water pipes so that breakage and weird noises don't occur.

Someone in an earlier thread said that water safety isn't left up to individual hotels, but the city - and so the hotel is connected to the city water supply through basement pipes. I don't know if this is true. It's been among the items discussed.

Sure but the guest brush their teeth and drink it? it has to be potable water tanks and you can't mix non potable into potable.

 

[jp111]

Below is what EL posted on her tumblr blog on Feb. 14th ----

"Anonymous asked: What happened??????? I have the feeling something terrible happened. ava.

Hi again Ava ( if this is the same Ava)

Thank you for your concern. I’m making an effort to spend less time on the computer to focus on other things. Unfortunately most of the time I’m in bed but so far this week has been going well (eating food, getting out of bed, walking the dog) It’s very sweet that you asked if I’m okay.

I’ll be around for a long time =)

Wish you the best"

2012

http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/17595399007/what-happened-i-have-the-feeling-something

 

[TheRoger]

Often times you can hear a lot of hallway noise in hotels and doubt if the Cecil beefed up on soundproofing. Maybe a resident heard her going by and looked through the peephole then pursued her to the elevator?

 

[kingsway]

I had been thinking it was the reason she was wearing a sweater in Los Angeles, but not bringing a purse. She had been planning on going outside at night, but not actually leaving the Hotel.



It doesn't matter if it is an urban myth or not. All that matters is whether she believed it could work.

She didn't even need to believe it either, having a compulsion to try it is just enough.

Yeah, her belongings are necessary to this case. First to find out where she was going, and why. And second to find out where they ended up.

I think the hotel cleaning staff may have hurt the LAPD's chances at gathering clues - from the cadaver dogs not being able to pick out scent, to the DNA evidence needed to implicate someone of a crime.

 

[Wee B.]

Below is what EL posted on her tumblr blog on Feb. 14th

Of 2012... Not sure what you are getting at.

 

[noodled1]

On a side note....what's up with the lengthy autopsy time?

Can someone give the lab dudes a carton of smokes or something to speed the process up??

I'll quote myself from last night

It's a complicated process and there's limited places in the US that can do it.

It's not the only case they're working on

Edit: here's an article discussing Tox Reports

"Some of the tests take days, weeks, months," says Alan Hall, MD, a board-certified toxicologist and consultant in Laramie, Wyo. The final toxicology report, he says, draws not only from multiple test results and confirmation of the results, but also on the clinical experience of the toxicologists and pathologists involved in the investigation, as well as field work.

Quite a bit more here
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/alcohol-abuse/features/the-truth-about-toxicology-tests

 

[kingsway]

Often times you can hear a lot of hallway noise in hotels and doubt if the Cecil beefed up on soundproofing. Maybe a resident heard her going by and looked through the peephole then pursued her to the elevator?

I thought about this as well, but I read the occupancy rate of Cecil was roughly 10%, possibly concentrated on the lower floors. (Stay Hotel, the trendy renovated part)

So they would have to find out who was on the upper floors at the time of her disappearance. The hardest part to decipher is how she got subdued without alerting anyone. Maybe there were only 1 or 2 occupants nearby and they didn't hear her screams, or chose to disregard them. Or she was drugged, or subdued quietly.

 

[Borris]

Sure but the guest brush their teeth and drink it? it has to be potable water tanks and you can't mix non potable into potable.

That's true. It all depends what their function is and how the old plumbing works. Maybe someone from the LA area will visit the library or city engineering department / architect to find plans and schematics for the Cecil.

Edit - LAFD said that the tanks were not connected, so what does that mean?

 

[TheRoger]

I haven't read anything about the occupancy rate, but if this is the case then perhaps the unsub was a resident who knew he pretty well had the floor to himself and used this to his advantage? Saw an opportunity and took it? This could also play into the staff member theory as staff would know if a floor was vacant.

 

[noodled1]

That's true. It all depends what their function is and how the old plumbing works. Maybe someone from the LA area will visit the library or city engineering department / architect to find plans and schematics for the Cecil.

I've actually been trying to work that into my schedule next week. I have to be in downtown. I'll have to figure out exactly where i need to go first to limit office hopping and to avoid going broke on parking...lol

 

[Godsdog]

That's true. It all depends what their function is and how the old plumbing works. Maybe someone from the LA area will visit the library or city engineering department / architect to find plans and schematics for the Cecil.

Edit - LAFD said that the tanks were not connected, so what does that mean?

Not as easy as it sounds. I tried to find stuff on my own house, which was built in 1914. I went to the library and they gave me a printout of where to go and what to do. I followed the directions to the letter. I entered one government building and started following painted colored lines on the floor as per the instructions. This led me to the basement level where I followed these lines on and on, under the city. It took me to several offices but the employees within seemed to have no idea what I was talking about, seemed to see the printout for the first time, and generally seemed disinterested. In the end, after several hours, I gave up. When I ascended to the ground level I was in a different building far away.

I would like to organize a websleuths trip to the Cecil however. I'm leaving town on Monday for the rest of the month but maybe the first week of April?

 

[Godsdog]

I've actually been trying to work that into my schedule next week. I have to be in downtown. I'll have to figure out exactly where i need to go first to limit office hopping and to avoid going broke on parking...lol

Would you be interested in a group visit to the Cecil in the first week of April?

 

[Xavier]

Open the whole lid...or the square hatch in the lid?

It looks like it would have been quite the job to remove all the pipes and conduits from the top of the lid

So does this mean tools would be needed to get the lid open?