Poll: Was Shannan Gilbert Murdered?

[2Hip2BSquare]

SG's swimming ability is irrelevant, as she wasn't in the water and didn't drown.

The original article as the subject post of this thread quoted:

"Based upon Dormer’s comments during the press conference, it is speculated Shannan may have fallen and drowned. Shannan’s mother also confirmed Shannan did not know how to swim. Currently, the official determination of cause of death is still pending. Due to advanced decomposition, experts agree the exact cause of death may be impossible to determine."

Are there new findings you can point me toward that I haven't caught up on yet? Any info would be appreciated. Ty!

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

SG's swimming ability is irrelevant, as she wasn't in the water and didn't drown.

For the record, I believe it was a homicide. Just trying to get all the info. Xo!

 

[PreciousDust]

Are there new findings you can point me toward that I haven't caught up on yet?

If there was any water at all in the brush she was treading through, it would have been less than a foot of it. Theoretically possible to drown in, though impossible to "swim" in. Dormer was being particularly stupid in that press conference.

 

[deedee21]

The original article as the subject post of this thread quoted:

"Based upon Dormer’s comments during the press conference, it is speculated Shannan may have fallen and drowned. Shannan’s mother also confirmed Shannan did not know how to swim. Currently, the official determination of cause of death is still pending. Due to advanced decomposition, experts agree the exact cause of death may be impossible to determine."

Are there new findings you can point me toward that I haven't caught up on yet? Any info would be appreciated. Ty!

The ME said the amount of water in the marsh at the time her remains were discovered is about the same amount that was there when she went missing. Dormer said the brush removed her jeans. NONSENSE. Veteran homicide Det. Vernon Geberth said it looks like her body was dumped in one area and the evidence discarded in another area. Her personal belongings is the evidence. The last place the search for SG began was the last place she was seen. Driving up and down the roads that make up Oak Beach does not constitute a search. They did not consider looking over the high brush area on either side of the road until she was gone for 18 months. The GB4 were not found as a result of looking for Shannan. There were found 3 miles West of where Shannan was last seen.

 

[PreciousDust]

The GB4 were not found as a result of looking for Shannan.

They were, though. The dog (Blue) who found the first of the GB4 was part of an operation put together to look for SG. But that operation wasn't specifically looking where GB4 was found; Blue's operator had stopped at that portion of road coincidentally and Blue picked up a scent. There was no GB4 search going on at that time (there was no reason to suspect that all of those missing escorts might be out at Oak Beach).

Or that'ts the story, anyway (that he coincidentally stopped). Some say that SCPD was tipped to the site's location by the killer.

 

[deedee21]

If there was any water at all in the brush she was treading through, it would have been less than a foot of it. Theoretically possible to drown in, though impossible to "swim" in. Dormer was being particularly stupid in that press conference.

Dormer was keeping something under his hat and continues to. I have not seen a picture of Shannans remains. The one provided is blurry. Correct me if Im wrong. Shannans jaw bone was found with her remains and not another location?. If that is true then I have to wonder how that happened? The jaw bone is connected to the skull by tiissue. When the tissue is gone the jaw bone is no longer attached. There was a hurricane. Wouldnt her jaw bone have floated away in a flooded marsh with flowing water? Some have suggested her jeans did just that. That I dont believe. When LE showed up in Oak Beach in Dec 2011 Gus Colettis comment was "they must of got a tip".

 

[deedee21]

They were, though. The dog (Blue) who found the first of the GB4 was part of an operation put together to look for SG. But that operation wasn't specifically looking where GB4 was found; Blue's operator had stopped at that portion of road coincidentally and Blue picked up a scent. There was no GB4 search going on at that time (there was no reason to suspect that all of those missing escorts might be out at Oak Beach).

Or that'ts the story, anyway (that he coincidentally stopped). Some say that SCPD was tipped to the site's location by the killer.

It was reported early on that Blue and his handler were on a routine training excercise. That I do believe. Thats is why the GB4 were discovered. Dormer knew there was a missing woman and used this opportunity to say he was looking for Shannan. 3 MILES AWAY FROM WHERE SHE WAS LAST SEEN? Why? Did he think she was hit by a car as she strolled along on OP and was thrown into the brush by the force of a oncoming car? Hes an opportunist. They said they were looking for Shannan. So they had to really go and look for her. At Oak Beach. The last place she was seen.

 

[PreciousDust]

They said they were looking for Shannan.

I do believe so, that's why the crew was out there. Looking for better citations on it, but first thing I spot is this from a recent Long Island Press article:

Police were searching for Shannan when they discovered other bodies in the brush, including those of Megan Waterman, Melissa Barthelemy, Maureen Brainard-Barnes and Amber Lynn Costello.

http://www.longislandpress.com/2013/05/01/shannan-gilberts-disappearance-three-years-later/

Not a bad article, either, and first time I've seen it.

 

[LINative13]

Guys fluke was screaming for months before her body was found where it was! Remember the other site?
I think mp chased her down, killed her, left her in the brush and chucked her belongings.

 

[deedee21]

I do believe so, that's why the crew was out there. Looking for better citations on it, but first thing I spot is this from a recent Long Island Press article:



http://www.longislandpress.com/2013/05/01/shannan-gilberts-disappearance-three-years-later/

Not a bad article, either, and first time I've seen it.

I think it was just a routine training. When the first body was discovered it was reasonable to believe it was Shannnan because Dormer knew she was missing. Thats why her family was notified. Its all in the timing. The dog handler knows if he was looking for her or not. I dont recall hearing from him on this matter. Just Dormer. I might believe it if his search started further East. Closer to Oak Beach.

 

[LINative13]

Fluke might be hard headed but he was right.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

The cadaver dog would indicate remains of the deceased, regardless of who it is. It will indicate.

I'm sure the overall scent of the bodies compounded in the perimeter of where the remains were in general and that it was enough to make Blue's ears perk and nose go wild immediately.

Her remains easily could have been disturbed after her body was left in the area. Her jaw bone could become disconnected from the skull with decay as the decay destroys the muscles that help connect it to the skull sure (though hinges/joints remain).

So since i believe she is a homicide victim, i have to consider that yes she could have been dismembered, but if the other bodies were not dismembered than I would find it odd the murderer change his/their MO.
It negates the idea of dismemberment (IMO).

I think it's more a case of homicide and that her body parts were unfortunately the ones that got disturbed by animals/elements after she was left there (more so than the other victims body parts) Moo

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

However! There are some cases where dogs do not indicate as easily bc the body has been decomposed for enough time that it is well past putridity (what really causes the scent to be overwhelming).



So we have to imagine: The dog is being sidetracked by other remains that contain more putridity than SGs remains. They would overwhelm
The dogs sense of smell and he would go running to the mass collection of remains rather than the scattered and lighter scented remains of SG.

Also, water and wind play a factor. So if her body was exposed to more water than the others it might smother her scent cone more than the multiple scent cones from remains lying in open air. If the wind is gusty, it could throw off the dogs direction of the scent cone emanating from the remains.

 

[PreciousDust]

I think it was just a routine training.

Story has evolved, according to JustK:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[elvira]

Occam's razor says she died by other than murder.

It's a lot simpler for someone to slip and get knocked out then chased a murdered.

No. Not in this case. A craigslist escort is found dead in an area where another ten escorts are found murdered. I'm pretty sure that, given that scenario, the most likely cause of death for that craigslist escort is murder. The fact that she thought she was in mortal danger and even in her highly illegal circumstance decided to call the police - that is simply an absolute indication that she feared for her life.

The thing that makes this case odd is that Shannan Gilbert got away for a moment. She obviously saw evidence of some sort - something that lead her to believe she was in the hands of one or several killers.

And of course, it seems crazy that MP would drive her there and JB would plan to kill her while MP was waiting. Of course, that's not the case. What happened is probably one of three options:

1. JB is LISK and he was cultivating a john-escort relationship with Shannan. He did not plan to kill her that night (or ever) but she somehow stumbled upon evidence - films, trophies....something...that lead her to believe he was a killer. She was a very intelligent girl, albeit troubled, she may have suddenly put the pieces together before anyone else did.

2. JB and MP (and possibly someone else) is a team. MP gets a good deal of money for catering to someone's insane fetish (I don't even want to speculate). Had Shannan not temporarily escaped, nobody would have known about her whereabouts - MP wouldn't have told, JB would never be mentioned, her body would never have been found (at least not until many years later).

3. MP is LISK. This is less likely because he's not the one with properties all over Long Island, so he has no reason for a particular attachment to the place.

 

[PreciousDust]

2. JB and MP (and possibly someone else) is a team.

I think it's unlikely to be MP. In fact, probably not JB either, though he very likely knows a lot about what really happened (therefore, he's an "accessory" to what happened). I think there's someone else involved, someone else who was there that night - and that it's that other person who truly spooked SG. If the cops already know the whole story, and have reasons for not wanting the story to come out, it could be a long time before we know what happened.

 

[hawkshaw]

PD - I think the cops have a pretty good idea what really happened - at least they have a good direction. But someone is stopping them. Detectives are detectives no matter what PD. They want to solve this case simply because what they are.

I think that if the latest SCPD fiasco with Burke and the grand jury comes to light we might get a better understanding of how it all works, in Suffolk County, that is.

 

[PreciousDust]

It was reported early on that Blue and his handler were on a routine training excercise. That I do believe. Thats is why the GB4 were discovered.

Fathom this utterly bizarre circumstance. Blue's handler, John Mallia, just happens to stop at a point along the road where Blue quickly found a body. Then, a year later, the same John Mallia just happens to find SGs pocketbook (six days later SG was found). John Mallia, in the right place at the right time to discover crucial evidence - twice! John Mallia, likely tipped to evidence location by the killer - twice!

On December 7, 2011, Shannan Gilbert’s clothing and some of her personal belongings were found less than 400 yards from Coletti’s home. Police discovered a purse, cellphone, jeans, shoes, and lip gloss in a marshy vacant field between Ocean Parkway and the bay. The pocketbook was discovered by Suffolk Police Officer John Mallia, whom in an ironic twist, was the first to discover a Long Island Serial Killer’s victim’s body barely a year earlier.

http://altereddimensions.net/2012/long-island-serial-killer

 

[PreciousDust]

I think that if the latest SCPD fiasco with Burke and the grand jury comes to light we might get a better understanding of how it all works, in Suffolk County, that is.

Hawk, that's what I'm hoping, that this Burke scandal blows the department wide open so that officers who know something will suddenly have a reason to spill it.

 

[PreciousDust]

John Mallia, in the right place at the right time to discover crucial evidence - twice!

Mallia is so good, in fact, that he didn't even need Blue to find the second body!

Two days later, Officer Mallia and Blue returned to the area in the morning to help homicide investigators collect evidence. But about 500 feet from the first body, the officer found a second body wrapped in burlap. Officer Mallia made that discovery alone, since Blue was still in the car.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/18/n...bodies-key-role-for-officer-and-dog.html?_r=0