IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #30

[akh]

[/B]
But that's exactly where we're at right now! The case will NEVER be solved without new evidence. The Spierers' want answers and this suit is about all they can do at this time. If it were my daughter I would do the same thing.

The question was how far do they push it if it's clear that they'll get no new information? Once they get past the depo stage, if it even gets that far once the current motion(s) to dismiss are decided, they should have a good idea of what to expect as far as new info and their chances in the courtroom.

Can they, would they, risk taking a case to court where losing is a possible outcome. No new info and a loss in the courtroom would go a long way towards throwing cold water on ever seeing the prosecution bring a criminal case against them.

 

[monkey222]

Further to the statement that the POIs would hopefully walk in to LE offices on their own..I mean..from what we know now, most had prior brushes w law and some were underage..correct? Didnt CR have a court date pre scheduled wi weeks of that fateful night? So why expect these Pois to come foward.And I forgot to mention illegal drugs used that night as well. Gee whiz.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

Actually, it is the right person, which is why Karmady thinks it's weird (which it is). I think a friend (the one in the pictures) posted these ... there are photos on her wall as well as Melissa's. Maybe they went to these places together, and it's her way of mourning?

well. that is weird.

 

[Ixchel13]

The more MB's story changes the more I look at HIM as the mastermind, for lack of a better word. So he's over at JRs when CR and LS come back after the Smallwood debacle. He walks in thinking there may be a burglar...ok, then its MB who puts CR to bed....then its MB who takes her to JR's. Etc Etc Etc

MB IS THE ONLY ONE OF THE THREE AT 5N THAT IS INVOLVED IN ALL OF THE ACTIVITIES and MOVEMENT BY LAUREN AFTER 3:00am.

If CR is a buffoon and JR is a tad slow in the brain department then we are left with MB.
Could it be he's the one that disposed of Lauren? Apparently MB is friends with JR to this day. My thought is MB took the job of making Lauren disappear and for that JR will be indebted to him for the rest of his pathetic life.

Anyone ever read The Secret History by Donna Tartt? Life imitating art and all that...

very very good post

 

[Ixchel13]

No, I don't have a leading theory. I find the behavior and stories of the guys at 5N to be suspicious, but I cannot rule out the possibility that at least one version of what they've said is the truth and that someone we know nothing about drove by, picked her up, and took her to an unknown location. I can't rule out JW either.

Theories that I have had that I now discount:
1. Wade Steffey theory: she tried to get into a building or fell into a body of water and died in the process. Extremely doubtful after the thorough searches and the amount of time that has passed.
2. Totally random abductor who came upon her by chance - these folks usually leave bodies where they are found within months, e.g. cornfields, edges of woods, bodies of water. Still possible, but I doubt it.
3. ZO or others living at 10th and College complexes - I think she would have been caught on video entering these buildings - is that true? Do all entries have cameras?
4. Female perp - statistically unlikely (have you ever seen the stats for male vs female crime? If you've got a Y Chromosome, you are much more likely to be incarcerated.)
5. Known sex offender in area - trusting that the U.S. Marshals cleared all these folks.
6. Various weird conspiracy theories (e.g that someone from BPD abducted her). BPD may not be perfect, but I don't think they are that bad.

Theories I can't rule out:
1. Guys at 5N
2. Guests of JR
3. JW
4. Unidentified serial killer, maybe hanging out at Waffle House.
5. Stalking and premeditated abduction (may actually be the most hopeful because these folks may keep their victims alive but captive).

It still bothers me that BPD never made an arrest in the case of Crystal Grubb. It looks like the people she was with might have been responsible, but there's no proof, same as with LS. It is possible that the same person who killed Crystal also abducted LS, but other than geographic and chronological proximity, there's nothing to link these cases

Thank you for considering me an asset.

Ros, all of your theories are valid and could be the right one. People can and do enter all of those secuirty apartments w/o being seen. It just happens, and these kids are really good.

 

[imkeylime]

... Theories I can't rule out:
1. Guys at 5N
2. Guests of JR
3. JW
4. Unidentified serial killer, maybe hanging out at Waffle House.
5. Stalking and premeditated abduction (may actually be the most hopeful because these folks may keep their victims alive but captive).

It still bothers me that BPD never made an arrest in the case of Crystal Grubb. It looks like the people she was with might have been responsible, but there's no proof, same as with LS. It is possible that the same person who killed Crystal also abducted LS, but other than geographic and chronological proximity, there's nothing to link these cases

Thank you for considering me an asset.

RSBM. IDK as much as I should about Crystal Grubb, but there is that parallel, as you note. Your #4, above, could be it. I still don't believe the POIs' stories, but whenever you have two unsolved disappearances of young women in the same area, it's worth considering all the options, IMO.

 

[Ros]

RSBM. IDK as much as I should about Crystal Grubb, but there is that parallel, as you note. Your #4, above, could be it. I still don't believe the POIs' stories, but whenever you have two unsolved disappearances of young women in the same area, it's worth considering all the options, IMO.

RSBM is not an acronym I know and I could not find it in this thread:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132555"]Abbreviations and Acronyms LIST ONLY NO DISCUSSION - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Meaning?

 

[imkeylime]

RSBM is not an acronym I know and I could not find it in this thread:

Abbreviations and Acronyms LIST ONLY NO DISCUSSION - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Meaning?

Ahhh ... I picked it up in another WS thread ... it's short for "Respectfully Snipped by Me." Maybe I should have written it out. Regardless, I thought your entire post was excellent, but I was most interested in #4 and the Crystal Grubb comment.

 

[Kadence]

The more MB's story changes the more I look at HIM as the mastermind, for lack of a better word. So he's over at JRs when CR and LS come back after the Smallwood debacle. He walks in thinking there may be a burglar...ok, then its MB who puts CR to bed....then its MB who takes her to JR's. Etc Etc Etc

MB IS THE ONLY ONE OF THE THREE AT 5N THAT IS INVOLVED IN ALL OF THE ACTIVITIES and MOVEMENT BY LAUREN AFTER 3:00am.

If CR is a buffoon and JR is a tad slow in the brain department then we are left with MB.
Could it be he's the one that disposed of Lauren? Apparently MB is friends with JR to this day. My thought is MB took the job of making Lauren disappear and for that JR will be indebted to him for the rest of his pathetic life.

Anyone ever read The Secret History by Donna Tartt? Life imitating art and all that...

This is a very interesting theory and you make a good point with MB's involvement with Lauren at crucial points in the timeline. Perhaps the whole "home writing a paper" thing threw a lot of people off making them think he was the "good one" of the bunch, maybe this is not true? From the very beginning, MB and DR were off my "list" but maybe they both need another look? DR and LS doing drugs together? I wonder why he is not part of the Spierer's suit? The burglar thing is also very strange to me unless CR had clued MB in that he expected to not return until the morning.

Never read The Secret History but will check it out, it sounds interesting! Thanks!

Also, welcome to Lauren's thread!!

 

[Lorelilly]

The question was how far do they push it if it's clear that they'll get no new information? Once they get past the depo stage, if it even gets that far once the current motion(s) to dismiss are decided, they should have a good idea of what to expect as far as new info and their chances in the courtroom.

Can they, would they, risk taking a case to court where losing is a possible outcome. No new info and a loss in the courtroom would go a long way towards throwing cold water on ever seeing the prosecution bring a criminal case against them.

I have a beautiful 24 year old daughter who graduated from a 4 year college that was hours from home. I thought about all the things that could go wrong and we would talk and she would say what I wanted to hear and thank God nothing went wrong...

The Spierer's have NO other options. The criminal part of this tragedy appears to be stalled and barring any new evidence, its headed towards a cold case file. The civil suit was filed in hope of getting ANY new info that would lead them closer to finding Lauren. I imagine their attorneys explained the risks and the Spierer's weighed those risks and decided to go ahead.

As a parent, I cannot know the depths of pain that Robert and Charlene have endured for the last two years. Not knowing where she is as days turn into weeks and weeks turn into months and months turn into years... and still, there is no Lauren. The not knowing is driving them forward in every single aspect of theirs lives. They cannot go from day to day and not do everything within their power to find their baby girl and bring her home.

For the pain they have caused so many, I wish nothing better then hell on earth to the guilty one(s). And to the guilty one(s) please, for the sake of your OWN parents, tell Robert and Charlene where their precious Lauren is. That piece of information alone would help the Spierer's more then any of us can possibly imagine.

 

[Lorelilly]

Okay, a few things that are bugging me.

* JR and his sweats. Who adds embellishments like that?! Fake! Used only as a way to show him in a cozy, yawn, bedtime like mode. Almost as a freaking DAD role in which he gives Lauren the admonition that if she can't stand up then she can't go home.
* DB asleep while the whole "passing" Lauren around occurred. Fake! And as to that love triangle thing...JR DB and ???
* CR's attorney claims due to the ZO punch, "CR remembers nothing from the moment of the punch AND THE 15 MINUTES BEFORE THE PUNCH WAS THROWN...??? Fake! 15 minutes before would have been just prior to leaving Kilroys. What is it CR doesn't want to explain?
* MB, in one of his versions anyway, stated, when he came home from JR's he saw Lauren in the living room and saw CR coming up the stairs. Fake! Lauren had just been carried for 2 blocks! I also believe it was LS who vomited and not CR.
* WHO is MB? For example:
does he come from money did he know JR before IU is he academically inclined

He's an interesting one...he's the "no one" hiding in plain sight. Anyone with MB info...?

 

[Ros]

Okay, a few things that are bugging me.

* JR and his sweats. Who adds embellishments like that?! Fake! Used only as a way to show him in a cozy, yawn, bedtime like mode. Almost as a freaking DAD role in which he gives Lauren the admonition that if she can't stand up then she can't go home.
* DB asleep while the whole "passing" Lauren around occurred. Fake! And as to that love triangle thing...JR DB and ???
* CR's attorney claims due to the ZO punch, "CR remembers nothing from the moment of the punch AND THE 15 MINUTES BEFORE THE PUNCH WAS THROWN...??? Fake! 15 minutes before would have been just prior to leaving Kilroys. What is it CR doesn't want to explain?
* MB, in one of his versions anyway, stated, when he came home from JR's he saw Lauren in the living room and saw CR coming up the stairs. Fake! Lauren had just been carried for 2 blocks! I also believe it was LS who vomited and not CR.
* WHO is MB? For example:
does he come from money did he know JR before IU is he academically inclined

He's an interesting one...he's the "no one" hiding in plain sight. Anyone with MB info...?

As I recall, MB did an internship with the company whose web site is at the link below. The surnames make me wonder if there is a familial connection between the executives of this company and both MB and LS' female friend BW. http://www.wallachbeth.com/index.php No proven connection, however.

 

[Ros]

Okay, a few things that are bugging me.

* JR and his sweats. Who adds embellishments like that?! Fake! Used only as a way to show him in a cozy, yawn, bedtime like mode. Almost as a freaking DAD role in which he gives Lauren the admonition that if she can't stand up then she can't go home.
* DB asleep while the whole "passing" Lauren around occurred. Fake! And as to that love triangle thing...JR DB and ???
* CR's attorney claims due to the ZO punch, "CR remembers nothing from the moment of the punch AND THE 15 MINUTES BEFORE THE PUNCH WAS THROWN...??? Fake! 15 minutes before would have been just prior to leaving Kilroys. What is it CR doesn't want to explain?
* MB, in one of his versions anyway, stated, when he came home from JR's he saw Lauren in the living room and saw CR coming up the stairs. Fake! Lauren had just been carried for 2 blocks! I also believe it was LS who vomited and not CR.
* WHO is MB? For example:
does he come from money did he know JR before IU is he academically inclined

He's an interesting one...he's the "no one" hiding in plain sight. Anyone with MB info...?

As I recall, MB did an internship with the company whose web site is at the link below. The surnames make me wonder if there is a familial connection between the executives of this company and both MB and LS' female friend BW. http://www.wallachbeth.com/index.php No proven connection, however, but MB's LinkedIn profiles gives this company as his employer.

 

[StrayKat]

Has the Spierers ever mentioned the white truck that was in the area twice around the time she went missing?

 

[Ros]

As I recall, MB did an internship with the company whose web site is at the link below. The surnames make me wonder if there is a familial connection between the executives of this company and both MB and LS' female friend BW. http://www.wallachbeth.com/index.php No proven connection, however, but MB's LinkedIn profile gives this company as his employer.

As I recall, MB was a telecommunications major with a business (marketing?) minor. I don't have a paid subscription to LinkedIn, so I cannot see his educational background. I think one of the HT articles that used to be free but is now subscription only gave the majors of the IU students involved. Maybe someone with a subscription to either of these sources can confirm his educational background.

 

[Ros]

"Ray" on PT posted on Tue Jun 21, 2011 07:36 PM that he went to high school with MB and is also friends' with JR's roommates.

There may be camp connections as well.

 

[doubtingthomas]

As I recall, MB was a telecommunications major with a business (marketing?) minor. I don't have a paid subscription to LinkedIn, so I cannot see his educational background. I think one of the HT articles that used to be free but is now subscription only gave the majors of the IU students involved. Maybe someone with a subscription to either of these sources can confirm his educational background.

This is from LinkedIn website for MB:

Education
Indiana University
Bachelor of Arts (B.A.), Telecommunications, Telecommunications Business Minor, Marketing Minor
2008 – 2012
Graduating with a Telecom Major with concentrations in Industry and Management, as well as Media and Society.
Activities and Societies: Civic Leadership Development

Experience

Brokerage Assistant
WallachBeth Capital
April 2013 – Present (6 months)100 Wall St.

 

[Jupiter812]

A link to Crystal Grubb's murder is not impossible but improbable IMHO and the biggest similarity to Lauren's case is it remains unsolved. Well, there's that and the fact that she, too, was surrounded by depraved souls.

Crystal's body was found close to where three men (all later jailed) she was with were cooking meth. It is known that they argued and she walked away angry. She was found three weeks later, strangled. One of the three men has a history of battery against a woman including strangulation.

 

[Lorelilly]

Thank you Ros and DoubtingThomas for the info on MB. I'd like to find out if his family has money. If he doesn't come from money, would he try to curry favor from those that did? Is he a follower who was always standing close to the action but never made it into the inner circle? Needless to say, his role in whatever happened that night bothers me...

And has the Dick Allgire remote viewing on YouTube been discussed here? I stumbled upon it 2 days ago and it threw me for a loop. To those who've seen it what are your thoughts? There's enough info there to fill a few threads!

 

[Jupiter812]

Thank you Ros and DoubtingThomas for the info on MB. I'd like to find out if his family has money. If he doesn't come from money, would he try to curry favor from those that did? Is he a follower who was always standing close to the action but never made it into the inner circle? Needless to say, his role in whatever happened that night bothers me...

And has the Dick Allgire remote viewing on YouTube been discussed here? I stumbled upon it 2 days ago and it threw me for a loop. To those who've seen it what are your thoughts? There's enough info there to fill a few threads!

Um, no we have not (that I'm aware of) discussed Dick Allgire. But I am watching now. Wow. I'm only at 9 minutes. I think one of the early ideograms could be ZO punching CR.

Heads up to non-believers: Just SOB please! :seeya: as in scroll on by...