General Questions, discussions, briefings, newbies, etc.

Why don't you start a thread for the UID and post your other guy in that thread as a possible match?

Anyone ever heard of this case? http://www.columbiavalleypioneer.com/?p=6211 I'm going to start a thread for her, but in the meantime if it rings any bells with anyone...

Canada's RCMP has launched a website for MP's and UID's:

http://www.canadasmissing.ca

I'm wondering how close investigators usually are regarding age of an UID, especially if they're looking at a skeleton.

I'm also curious to know how they know how long a body has been there. What's the difference between 3 years and 5 years when it comes to skeletal remains?

I'm looking at an UID who is thought to be 18-22 years old at time of death and they think she was dead for 2-3 years before being found. Based on that should I rule out someone who would have been 32 at the time the body was found?

Thanks!

SeeMamaRun said:

I'm wondering how close investigators usually are regarding age of an UID, especially if they're looking at a skeleton.

I'm also curious to know how they know how long a body has been there. What's the difference between 3 years and 5 years when it comes to skeletal remains?

I'm looking at an UID who is thought to be 18-22 years old at time of death and they think she was dead for 2-3 years before being found. Based on that should I rule out someone who would have been 32 at the time the body was found?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

As a general rule, the younger a person is, the more accurately they can estimate the person's age. The age of children can be estimated within a year or two. The range widens to about 2-3 years for persons between 18 and 22.

If they are saying that this skeleton is from a person 18-22, this probably means that most of the growth plates have fused, but the clavicles (collarbones) have still not fused. For a person 32 years old, it is very probable that all growth plates have fused, and they wouldn't be seeing unfused growth plates in the clavicles.

There have been instances where they badly missed the mark on estimating age, but that doesn't happen very often.

Thank you Carl!

Are they generally accurate in estimating how long a skeleton has been there?

SeeMamaRun said:

Thank you Carl!

Are they generally accurate in estimating how long a skeleton has been there?

Click to expand...

If less than 1-2 years, pretty accurate. More than that, less so.

I am not sure where to post this...I did a search for this UID/case and could not find anything on him on here. Maybe I did not search correctly? Jesse Hayes/Jessie Stacy 2 ID's with remains in North Idaho.

http://www.ktvb.com/news/Sheriff-se...human-remains-found-in-N-Idaho-194394131.html

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2013/03/01/2473053/officials-seek-more-information.html#storylink=rss

First thought was witness protection person or new identity. I also found a few who may be him on Namus...

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/913/0

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/4463/8

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/931/24

If this is posted somewhere else, I apologize. Thanks!

Irish_Eyes said:

Why don't you start a thread for the UID and post your other guy in that thread as a possible match?

Click to expand...

Thanks so much for the response. I just got back online after several months (my computer died), so it will take me a bit to get all my ducks in a row, and re-acquaint myself with what I had found (I still have all the links and such though).

Cook County, Illinois to begin posting photos of unclaimed bodies online

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/story/2...gin-posting-photos-of-unclaimed-bodies-online

Here's the link to the site:
http://www.cookcountygov.com/portal...miner,_office_of/307/unidentified_persons/735

Interesting article about a new rehydration technique being used to identify remains in Mexico.

http://www.elpasotimes.com/news/ci_22819488/ju-225-rez-dentist-develops-process-id-remains

Dr. Alejandro Hernandez Cardenas and his assistants prepare to work on a mummified corpse found in Juarez. Hernandez has developed a technique for rehydrating cadavers and extracting DNA material from them in hopes of identifying people who have died.
...
"We can recover their fingerprints and any scars, birthmarks or tattoos they had that can help identify them. Also, we can learn how they died because wounds and even bruises become visible," Hernández said.

Click to expand...

I got word from one of the NamUs RSA's that they have been so inundated with requests for manual checks of possible matches that the leader of their lab "put her foot down".

They are no longer going to do manual comparisons, unless requested to do so by law enforcement.

She added that comprehensive comparison of all DNA profiles is performed monthly, so any MP's with NamUs DNA profiles are automatically compared to those UID cases with DNA profiles.

Member BunnyHop asked me to post this sad story. I think this is the appropriate place to post it.

Aug. 4, 2013 3:24 AM
Written byBrian Haas
The Tennessean
His gravestone simply read, “John (19) Doe.”
He was the 19th unidentified man buried in the Bordeaux Cemetery. He lies in plot #555, a grave overlooking the Whites Creek Wastewater Treatment Plant. And around him lie 1,001 others who died penniless and, in some cases, unmourned...

Nolan filed a missing persons report on April 12, 1998, but police were not optimistic...

While police overlooked the possible connection between the missing man and the sudden appearance of an unidentified murder victim wrapped in a burned carpet, LeRyan’s mother was looking everywhere for her son...

In 2012, on what would have been LeRyan’s 33rd birthday, Williams stumbled upon a government website called NAMUS. The site contains nationwide databases for missing persons, unidentified remains and unclaimed bodies.
Williams searched around the time LeRyan went missing. She got an immediate hit, that of a young man whose burned remains were found at the end of Mary Street.
John Doe.

Click to expand...

Much more at the link

Thanks Bessie for your help. I wasn't sure where to post it.

It made me cry.:tears:


He has been identified by DNA.

Glad his Mom found closure, and kudos to his Sister for her vigilance.

After 15-year search, Nashville mom finds son in pauper's grave

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20130804/NEWS01/308040086

R.I.P. LeRyan Nicholson

Sylvia Nolan's son, LeRyan Nicholson, disappeared in 1998. Through anguish, prayers and her family's detective work, she discovered in March that he had been killed and buried as 'John (19) Doe' in a pauper's grave 3 miles from her home.

They never put two and two together when LeRyan Nicholson went missing April 12, 1998, only to have the burned body of a young man matching his description show up the very next day.

Click to expand...

Unbelievable.

Thanks for sharing, BunnyHop.

CarlK90245 said:

I got word from one of the NamUs RSA's that they have been so inundated with requests for manual checks of possible matches that the leader of their lab "put her foot down".

They are no longer going to do manual comparisons, unless requested to do so by law enforcement.

She added that comprehensive comparison of all DNA profiles is performed monthly, so any MP's with NamUs DNA profiles are automatically compared to those UID cases with DNA profiles.

Click to expand...

I have questions on DNA comparisons related to the bolded part above. I thought I read the answers somewhere on Websleuths before, but now I can't find it to confirm. Sorry if it's right in front of me and I missed it.

Are DNA profiles compared against all the different databases I see listed? For instance, if a UID's DNA is located at the University of North Texas and a source says a missing person's DNA is "Samples submitted - Tests complete" - does this mean a hit would have occurred if they were a match?

It seems like the answer is "Yes" based on this link. If so, I am curious why the DNA location is listed if the data is in the national system anyhow. Does the DNA's location have any bearing on whether a sample not located at the same place is compared? Thanks ahead of time for the clarifications!

There are two primary DNA databases were UID's are compared to MP's (or MP Family Reference Samples) - One is CODIS, which is run by the FBI, and the other is within the NamUs system. There are other state and private DNA databases, but they don't do comprehensive nationwide comparisons.

NamUs is run by the University of North Texas. So when a MP's DNA profile says "Sample Submitted - Tests Complete", I am pretty certain that the MP's DNA profile is at least in NamUs, although I am not so certain that that the sample is also in CODIS. CODIS will not accept samples from private labs, such as Bode Laboratories. Somewhere I've also heard that CODIS deals only with MP's who are thought to be victims of foul play. IIRC, if a person is missing as a result of circumstances, such as natural disaster, an accident, runaway or family abandonment, the person is not entered in CODIS. Also, from what I've heard, some state DNA databases automatically upload their MP DNA data to CODIS, and others don't.

But my understanding is that if the MP's DNA section in NamUs says Sample Submitted - Tests Complete, it at least is in NamUs for automated comparison.

I should add that an MP may have Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), or Nuclear DNA (nucDNA, sometimes referred to as STR), or both, depending on whether the familial contributors are mtDNA compatible (i.e., related by way of the maternal ancestral line) and also depending on how many Family Reference Samples are submitted. I've heard that NamUs and CODIS will not compare nucDNA based on only a single FRS.

So it may not be sufficient for both the MP and UID to have DNA in the system. The MP and UID need to both have the same type of DNA in the system, and if both have nucDNA, but one side does not have mtDNA, then there must be more than one FRS for the MP.

Or at least that's the way I understand it.

^ Thank you for taking the time to teach us, CarlK! That really helps to understand how things work behind-the-scenes and to also save time when looking at potential matches.

I apologize if this question has already been answered, but I wasn't able to find it. Why are the dental charts for UIDs no longer publicly displayed on NAMUS? I thought that was the most useful feature on that website.

NamUs no longer shows the details of the Fingerprint, DNA, or Dental sections. They in their infinite wisdom have decided that providing less information to the public on these cases is somehow helpful.

For the time being, you might be able to locate the dental charts on the cases that you have been working on, via the google cache. I have detailed that in the following post:

NamUs system changes as of September 16, 2013 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community