Lyons Sisters Q & A

Does anyone know if Mileski has been linked, or known to know Karl DeGregory?
I thought I read somewhere that Mileski had some connection to this guy but I can't find the cite.
DeGregory was convicted of a double murder in NC and confessed to many murders in FL.
I don't thik DeGregory is a possible suspect in the Lyon case as he was most likely in jail in NC for the 1972 (i think) murders he committed in NC.
But I AM trying to determine if Mileski was connected in any way to DeGregory. Does anyone know??

SharetheLight said:

Does anyone know if Mileski has been linked, or known to know Karl DeGregory?... I AM trying to determine if Mileski was connected in any way to DeGregory. Does anyone know??

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Karl DeGregory is not a name that I heard or read in connection with Ray Mileski. Mileski did have a brother and a son, each named Karl or Carl, but that is probably just a coincidence.

I thought I had read that Mileski testified either for or against DeGregory at some point, but I can't find the article so maybe I am confusing things.

Updating this with some good info.

Fukiyama said:

I like doing timelines and I think it would be useful as we have a lot of events for that day, but they seem to be listed and references across several different threads without one post listing them all together with comments.

• AM: Mr. Lyon slept in after overnight radio show; Katherine invited over to a girlfriend's house to play, but was discouraged by Mrs. Lyon. Arrangements were made for Katherine to call at 1500. Katherine told friend she and Sheila were going to Wheaton Plaza.
  
  
• 1100-1200: Sisters left home.
  
  
• ~1930 (1130): Sisters allegedly seen near Drumm Avenue and Faulkner Place as they walked away from their home toward Wheaton Plaza by 12 year-old David Reed (knew them from the pool the previous summer and having attended school with Sheila). Sighting of girls heading away from home that late in the evening in the dark discounted two weeks after it was made. [This sighting is believed by Richard to be a possible error by police and should have been Eleven rather than Seven. Given that it is discounted otherwise and makes no difference since they obviously made it to the mall, I include it here.]
  
  
• ~1145: Sisters seen by Sarah Biosca, retired seamstress, at a leather shop looking at a wallet.
  
  
• Unknown: Sisters seen at Up Against The Wall (jeans store) by 18 year-old clerk.
  
  
• Noon: Mrs. Lyon out bowling.
  
  
• ~1300: Sisters seen at mall center waiting at the Easter Bunny display by brother Jay; Jay walked right by, but Jay does not know if they saw him.
  
  
• Unknown: Sheila seen by 13 year-old who knew her as she was sitting on the Easter Bunny's arm as children talked to the bunny.
  
  
• 1300-1400: Sisters seen by "Jimmy" and friend (both 13 years old) near the Orange Bowl restaurant as they were talking to TRM.
  
  
• ~1400: Sisters allegedly seen by brother Jay as they ate pizza in the Orange Bowl according to Washington Post. Sighting not reported in interview with Ms. Kuhn in 6 April 1975 Washington Star interview.
  
  
• 1430-1500: Sisters seen near intersection of Drumm and Devon by another boy who only came forward after the discounting of the 1930 sighting. This sighting was/is viewed with skepticism as it was reported two weeks later.
  
  
• ~Early PM: Sisters seen by James Mann as they passed by his house. (This sighting was not reported by any of the contemporary news media and is dubious.)
  
  
• 1500 (3pm): Mrs. Lyon: "A good time to be home"; Katherine was expected to be home to call her girlfriend. Mr. Lyon left home to pick up Mrs. Lyon at bowling.
  
  
• 1600-1630: Mr. and Mrs. Lyon returned home.
  
  
• After Mrs. Lyon came home: "I told her to come by the next day," Kuester [neighbor lady with new baby] said. "I promised her I'd be sure to have Judy up." When Kate didn't show, Kuester called the girls' mother, Mary Lyon, who said the girls were running late and should be back any moment."
  http://www.gazette.net/gazette_archi.../265841-1.html
  
  
• 1800: Supper, Mrs. Lyon worried as girls were not home yet.
  
  
• 1900-2000: Sisters reported missing.

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Thanks again for the great timeline!! I just wanted to point something out.

Quote by Fukiyama.Bolded by me.-

~1400: Sisters allegedly seen by brother Jay as they ate pizza in the Orange Bowl according to Washington Post. Sighting not reported in interview with Ms. Kuhn in 6 April 1975 Washington Star interview



I spoke to LE and Jay did see the girls eating pizza.

Thanks for the updated timeline Fukiyama.
I was just thinking about this part of the timeline:

1430-1500: Sisters seen near intersection of Drumm and Devon by another boy who only came forward after the discounting of the 1930 sighting. This sighting was/is viewed with skepticism as it was reported two weeks later.

It seems reasonable to me that this boy wouldn't come forward with information about a sighting at 2:30 or 3:00 if he had heard they'd been seen at 7:30. Obviously if they were seen at 7:30 alive and well, the 2:30 sighting becomes irrelevant.
I don't think this 2:30 sighting should be viewed with skepticism simply because he didn't come forward right away, especially because the reason for not coming forward was the info out there of a 7:30 sighting. This seems perfectly logical to me.

Not to mention the sighting from Mr. Mann happens around the same time and location as this boy's sighting. I think this gives both accounts more credibility.

I am not sure who views this sighting with skepticism, it's in red and I am not sure what that means, but considering the above I'd give that sighting some credibility.

I really like the timeline a lot.

I also agree with ShareTheLight though concerning that one section where the 2:30pm witness was viewed with skepticism. It seems like the only reason why they (the police? I guess) were skeptical is because he didn't come forward until 2 weeks later. But, apparently, the boy explained himself and said that he came forward after the later/evening sighting was discounted. So, I don't know why they wouldn't want to be more open-minded about that sighting knowing that the boy had a perfectly reasonable explanation for coming forward later than the "norm".

1. Feel free to quote the timeline and change wording if you can update any aspects such as Jay confirming that he saw his sisters.

2. All references to opinions of reliability of specific sightings are police opinions that come from Richard's archive of news articles. From my understanding of what Richard has reported, the police were not as likely to believe it given that a. it was two weeks later and b. they had been burned already and were not as likely to accept out of hand such statements without corroboration.

3. Aside from the kid who saw them at 2:30 along Drumm, I would be interested in if anyone can find anything at all that corroborates Mr. Mann's account in that single retrospective source.

I just stumbled across this fascinating case on the board today. Have been a regular poster on others.
Sorry if this has ben addressed already but has anyone ever had a psychic do a reading on this case? Also was there anything done on the Forensic Astololgy board?
I am somewhat skeptical by nature but some of us sleuthing on another crime have been very impressed with what we got from a psychic and also on the FA board.

Snick1946 said:

I just stumbled across this fascinating case on the board today. Have been a regular poster on others.
Sorry if this has ben addressed already but has anyone ever had a psychic do a reading on this case? Also was there anything done on the Forensic Astololgy board?
I am somewhat skeptical by nature but some of us sleuthing on another crime have been very impressed with what we got from a psychic and also on the FA board.

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Welcome to this case Snick1946. I don't know if a psychic ever did a reading or not. I have put in a request over at the Forensic Astrology board, and bumped the request twice now. I know they are busy over there. They've done incredible work on other cases and I feel like they could lend valuable info to this case. So my fingers remained crossed that they'll get to this case at some point.

Hi, I have been mainly active on the 'Omaha Double Murder' thread in Current Events. I sent the FA board two requests then someone looked at it and it really took off. There are now many posts on that forum about that crime. I think they are very busy and you just have to keep asking. Frankly I also think they are more likely to respond quicker when a case is more recent than this one. Those of us working on that case are very upbeat as we are being told arrests may be coming soon.
I vaguely recall hearing about this case back then. There are so many strange aspects to it.
Has anyone ever posted an update on the family? Parents still alive, siblings? I think their father was a media personality?

Snick1946 said:

Hi, I have been mainly active on the 'Omaha Double Murder' thread in Current Events. I sent the FA board two requests then someone looked at it and it really took off. There are now many posts on that forum about that crime. I think they are very busy and you just have to keep asking. Frankly I also think they are more likely to respond quicker when a case is more recent than this one. Those of us working on that case are very upbeat as we are being told arrests may be coming soon.
I vaguely recall hearing about this case back then. There are so many strange aspects to it.
Has anyone ever posted an update on the family? Parents still alive, siblings? I think their father was a media personality?

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Welcome Snick1946!! As STL said,we are waiting for her request to be answered from the FA board.There were psychic responses back when this happened,but nothing came of their readings,I guess.As far as the family goes,John Lyon is a victim's assistant(I think that's his title) and brother Jay is a police officer,both for Montgomery County.The Lyon's are stilled married and I'm not sure about brother Joe. Richard and Thrasher could tell you just about everything about them.Nice to have you here,please keep posting.

Richard and Thrasher,are you two out there somewhere?

The last couple of days, I've been refreshing my knowledge on this case, which is truly one of the most intriguing mysteries. So far, I have a two questions maybe someone with more knowledge of the case could answer.

1. There is so much talk about the witnesses on that fateful day, there where and when the girls were actually abducted, possible sightings later, the ground searches in the area etc ..... But never have I ever seen anything about the investigation being more widespread, despite most theories I've seen having the abductor/abductors getting the girls out of the immediate area as quickly as possible.

How widespread was the investigation? Was there any investigation of the abduction or search for the girls beyond the Washington DC area? What LE agencies were involved besides Montgomery County?

2. I don't think I've ever seen anything about what kind of people Sheila and Kate were. Anyone know what they were like back then besides being innocent girls in a more innocent time?

Copper said:

The last couple of days, I've been refreshing my knowledge on this case, which is truly one of the most intriguing mysteries. So far, I have a two questions maybe someone with more knowledge of the case could answer.

1. ... How widespread was the investigation? Was there any investigation of the abduction or search for the girls beyond the Washington DC area? What LE agencies were involved besides Montgomery County?

2. I don't think I've ever seen anything about what kind of people Sheila and Kate were. Anyone know what they were like back then besides being innocent girls in a more innocent time?

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Good questions. I cannot state absolutely how many other jurisdictions and agencies were involved, as I do not have access to LE records and files. But, based on news coverage - which included many police briefings on the case - I do know that the FBI provided some assistance, and that Prince Georges County Police and Washington DC Police were involved in certain aspects of the investigation.

Montgomery County Police have always been the primary agency responsible for the case. They would tell you that they sent out communiques to all surrounding states and jurisdictions at the time. But whether or not they got any tips, assistance, etc. from that, I do not know.

I can say that the story was big news in the Washington DC metropolitan area for weeks and weeks, and that news of their disappearance was picked up by Associated Press (AP). That meant that newspapers all across the country could print the story if they chose to.

In 1975, newspapers and TV/Radio were much more locally oriented and there was not the type of Amber Alerts which are so common today.

As to what the girls were like, I suggest that you read a Washington Star article which I put in the thread on media and links. The Star reporter spoke with Mrs. Lyon about the girls and their personalities. She even described their room in great detail. Also, there have been a few folks who have posted in these threads who knew the girls personally and have described them.

I have just read about this case. I noticed on the timeline that the girls were expected home at 3pm. And they were seen walking in the direction of home at a time -- around 2 :30 pm -- which seems to indicate that they would have gotten home at around 3pm.

But, the timeline states that Mr. Lyon left the house at 3pm to go pick up Mrs. Lyon from bowling.Did he take her to the bowling alley ? Or did someone pick her up to take her ? They did not arrive back home until between 4pm and 4 ;30pm. Who was home from 3pm to around 4 :30 pm ? Did the girls have a house key ? Is it possible that they got to the house,and no one was home ? So they went someplace else,or back to the mall ? Or to another house in the block ? Very sad and intrguing case....

liz b. said:

I have just read about this case. I noticed on the timeline that the girls were expected home at 3pm. And they were seen walking in the direction of home at a time -- around 2 :30 pm -- which seems to indicate that they would have gotten home at around 3pm.

But, the timeline states that Mr. Lyon left the house at 3pm to go pick up Mrs. Lyon from bowling.Did he take her to the bowling alley ? Or did someone pick her up to take her ? They did not arrive back home until between 4pm and 4 ;30pm. Who was home from 3pm to around 4 :30 pm ? Did the girls have a house key ? Is it possible that they got to the house,and no one was home ? So they went someplace else,or back to the mall ? Or to another house in the block ? Very sad and intrguing case....

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Welcome to this topic. You ask good questions.

As I recall from Mrs. Lyon's interview in the Washington Star, she left home about the same time that the girls did - She to go bowling, and the girls to go to the mall. Mr. Lyon was sleeping in his bedroom, and the two boys had intentions of playing basket ball.

The time that the girls arrived at the mall is pretty well established by a couple of eyewitnesses, and it is known that their brother Jay arrived at Wheaton Plaza some time after them. The youngest boy may have stayed at home, or may have gone to a friend's house.

I do not know how Mrs. Lyon got to the bowling alley. She either walked or got a ride. The fact was that Mr. Lyon went to pick her up in the family car around 3PM.

No witness ever stated that the girls made it home that day. The "3 PM" expected arrival time was never a hard and fast requirement. Mrs. Lyon had agreed with the girls in a conversation before they left that morning that it would be a "good time", but she never said that it was an absolute.

The girls knew that they always needed to be home for supper, and it was at supper time when Mrs. Lyon started to worry because they had not returned.

I do not know if the girls had a house key, but it was never stated in any press briefings or anywhere that they had one on them.

Richard said:

Welcome to this topic. You ask good questions.

As I recall from Mrs. Lyon's interview in the Washington Star, she left home about the same time that the girls did - She to go bowling, and the girls to go to the mall. Mr. Lyon was sleeping in his bedroom, and the two boys had intentions of playing basket ball.

The time that the girls arrived at the mall is pretty well established by a couple of eyewitnesses, and it is known that their brother Jay arrived at Wheaton Plaza some time after them. The youngest boy may have stayed at home, or may have gone to a friend's house.

I do not know how Mrs. Lyon got to the bowling alley. She either walked or got a ride. The fact was that Mr. Lyon went to pick her up in the family car around 3PM.

No witness ever stated that the girls made it home that day. The "3 PM" expected arrival time was never a hard and fast requirement. Mrs. Lyon had agreed with the girls in a conversation before they left that morning that it would be a "good time", but she never said that it was an absolute.

The girls knew that they always needed to be home for supper, and it was at supper time when Mrs. Lyon started to worry because they had not returned.

I do not know if the girls had a house key, but it was never stated in any press briefings or anywhere that they had one on them.

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I did read the Washington Star interview, and it's very informative. Seems like the girls did have a key. Mr. and Mrs Lyon went back to the house at 3:30, after she had gone bowling. Mrs. Lyon said " the girls weren't home " at that time.Being that the house was empty at or around 3 - 3:30, how could she have thought they might be home when she came back from bowling ? If they didn't have a way to get in the house ? The parents then went back out until 4 :30 pm. I wonder if,although no one saw them, the girls stopped off at the house, and then went back out ?

She went and did gardening then for two hours, and then it was suppertime.Mrs. Lyon said " the boys were home by then ". So, the boys came home between 4 :30 and 6 :00pm...

The oldest boy was at the mall ? He saw his sisters twice, once with the Easter Bunny, and once eating pizza ? So, he didn't play basketball ? I wonder when he left the mall ?

Lastly, Mrs. Lyon said that she was angry,rather than scared, when the girls didn't show up at suppertime. I wonder if they had stayed out past the time they should have before ? They were on spring break... MOO

liz b. said:

I did read the Washington Star interview, and it's very informative....

... The oldest boy was at the mall ? He saw his sisters twice, once with the Easter Bunny, and once eating pizza ? So, he didn't play basketball ? I wonder when he left the mall ?

Lastly, Mrs. Lyon said that she was angry,rather than scared, when the girls didn't show up at suppertime. I wonder if they had stayed out past the time they should have before ? They were on spring break... MOO

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The story of Sheila and Kate being seen "in the Orange Bowl eating pizza" by their older brother Jay was something that I had seen in a Washington Post article and then repeated years ago in my initial case summary. That summary was picked up by numerous websites and repeated over and over again, but I have never been able to confirm the story of Jay seeing them eating pizza, and I have come to doubt that part myself.

I feel that it started with a newspaper reporter jumbling up two facts - one that the girls went to the Mall with the stated INTENTION of eating pizza at the Orange Bowl - and two that Jay had seen them at the Mall that day.

When you read the Washington Star article, note that Jay says nothing to that reporter about seeing them eat pizza. He is quoted in several articles as to seeing them at the Mall center near the fountain by the Easter Bunny display.

The Orange Bowl was a pizza "take out" place which had some stools or counters for eating pizza, but it was not a "sit down" restaurant. Usually, people bought pizza by the slice and either walked around eating it, or sat down on one of the planter/benches outside. The Orange Bowl was located between the Montgomery Wards end store and the Mall Center. There is a photo in one of the topic threads which depicts the area from the fountain looking west toward Wards. The Orange Bowl is about halfway down on the right and you can actually see the planters mentioned.

It was "Jimmy" and his buddy who claimed to have seen the girls near the Orange Bowl talking to the Tape Recorder Man. But that was near a planter/bench in the courtyard area across from the Orange Bowl, and the girls departed from there toward Mall Center immediately afterward. Again, no mention of them being seen "eating Pizza".

You correctly state what Mrs. Lyon said to Ms. Kuhn, the Washington Star reporter. She was angry with the girls because they were not home at supper time, but as it got later and later, her anger gave way to worry and fear.

This is a timeline I compiled some time ago. It seems like it may be useful to post it again here for reference. If you note any inaccuracies, let me know.

--------------------

• AM: Mr. Lyon slept in after overnight radio show; Katherine invited over to a girlfriend's house to play, but was discouraged by Mrs. Lyon. Arrangements were made for Katherine to call at 1500. Katherine told friend she and Sheila were going to Wheaton Plaza.
  
  
• 1100-1200: Sisters left home.
  
  
• ~1930 (1130): Sisters allegedly seen near Drumm Avenue and Faulkner Place as they walked away from their home toward Wheaton Plaza by 12 year-old David Reed (knew them from the pool the previous summer and having attended school with Sheila). Sighting of girls heading away from home that late in the evening in the dark discounted two weeks after it was made. [This sighting is believed by Richard to be a possible error by police and should have been Eleven rather than Seven. Given that it is discounted otherwise and makes no difference since they obviously made it to the mall, I include it here.]
  
  
• ~1145: Sisters seen by Sarah Biosca, retired seamstress, at a leather shop looking at a wallet.
  
  
• Unknown: Sisters seen at Up Against The Wall (jeans store) by 18 year-old clerk.
  
  
• Noon: Mrs. Lyon out bowling.
  
  
• ~1300: Sisters seen at mall center waiting at the Easter Bunny display by brother Jay; Jay walked right by, but Jay does not know if they saw him.
  
  
• Unknown: Sheila seen by 13 year-old who knew her as she was sitting on the Easter Bunny's arm as children talked to the bunny.
  
  
• 1300-1400: Sisters seen by "Jimmy" and friend (both 13 years old) near the Orange Bowl restaurant as they were talking to TRM.
  
  
• ~1400: Sisters seen by brother Jay as they ate pizza in the Orange Bowl according to Washington Post. Sighting not reported in interview with Ms. Kuhn in 6 April 1975 Washington Star interview.
  
  
• 1430-1500: Sisters seen near intersection of Drumm and Devon by another boy who only came forward after the discounting of the 1930 sighting. This sighting was/is viewed with skepticism as it was reported two weeks later.
  
  
• ~Early PM: Sisters seen by James Mann as they passed by his house. (This sighting was not reported by any of the contemporary news media and is dubious.)
  
  
• 1500 (3pm): Mrs. Lyon: "A good time to be home"; Katherine was expected to be home to call her girlfriend. Mr. Lyon left home to pick up Mrs. Lyon at bowling.
  
  
• 1600-1630: Mr. and Mrs. Lyon returned home.
  
  
• After Mrs. Lyon came home: "I told her to come by the next day," Kuester [neighbor lady with new baby] said. "I promised her I'd be sure to have Judy up." When Kate didn't show, Kuester called the girls' mother, Mary Lyon, who said the girls were running late and should be back any moment."
  http://www.gazette.net/gazette_archi.../265841-1.html
  
  
• 1800: Supper, Mrs. Lyon worried as girls were not home yet.
  
  
• 1900-2000: Sisters reported missing.