FL - Adam Kaufman on trial for the murder of wife Eleanora Kaufman, 33

Soulmagent said:

I had to leave It doesnt look like I missed anything. Are they ever going to get to closing today?

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TruTV says they will this afternoon, but I'm beginning to think it will be tomorrow the way they are haggling over the instructions.

I dunno the judge might make them stay there until 8 she is ready for this to be out of her court room .

Closing starting when IS goes off,..wth IS !

Where's the sound?

Never mind. Somebody turned it on.

Im glad I am not put in a position to judge someone else... I feel for those jurors and for Adam regardless of the outcome.

I saw alot of evidence but did not see everything. Wish we could see the pics. I want to know how " trival" those marks on the neck was. I heard there were areas on the back of the neck. I cant imagine that being made by the paramedics

Ugh! awful ending for the day. I wanted the jury to get the case today!



http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream1

dizzychick said:

Im glad I am not put in a position to judge someone else... I feel for those jurors and for Adam regardless of the outcome.

I saw alot of evidence but did not see everything. Wish we could see the pics. I want to know how " trival" those marks on the neck was. I heard there were areas on the back of the neck. I cant imagine that being made by the paramedics

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Ever been on a backboard? I can definitly picture marks being left by paramedics.

Soulmagent said:

Ever been on a backboard? I can definitly picture marks being left by paramedics.

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I would need a dead body to practice on LOL I dont know what kind of marks you can make with no blood flow, you need blood pulsing throuh the veins to make a bruise. I think the state said yellow marks or grey marks are possible after death but red/blue marks are bruising from pressure on skin that has blood flow.

I really think he got mad at her either cause she went out and they got into a fight or he went out after she did and a fight ensued later. People can snap and do things w//o a bad home life. I think it happened in a fit of rage but only the jury's opinion is what matters now, like I said im glad im not them that would be a hard job.

dizzychick said:

Im glad I am not put in a position to judge someone else... I feel for those jurors and for Adam regardless of the outcome.

I saw alot of evidence but did not see everything. Wish we could see the pics. I want to know how " trival" those marks on the neck was. I heard there were areas on the back of the neck. I cant imagine that being made by the paramedics

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30+ years ago I taught C.P.R. in the U.S. Navy. C.P.R. is a violent procedure and could very easily cause damage to the body. Realize what C.P.R. is doing, it is compressing the rib cage and the underlying heart muscle at least two inches in order to be effective. This takes a considerable amount of brute force to achieve. I found the most difficult thing to teach was the amount of force required. Some of my rough & tough students could not muster the force needed to achieve two inches of compression. Any object behind the back or a very uneven surface could easily leave marks.

When I saw the photos of Lina Kaufman's neck I could also relate to the intubation theory. I have been trained in battlefield triage and first aid and have seen a few videos showing a soldier being intubated. This can be a very simple procedure or it can be a little rough. Especially if the wrong size tube is used or something is preventing a clear visual of the throat. Granted, my experience is dated and newer technologies may be different. The mark on Lina's neck was quite unremarkable, I have done worse to myself with an accidental swipe of a fingernail on or about my face. In fact I did just such a thing two weeks ago.

My opinion in the Adam Kaufman case, if anyone cares for it, is that the state was extremely overreaching and if I were the judge I would reprimand the state's attorneys in this case and rule for an acquittal. The state had no basis for filing a charge against Adam Kaufman, which is evidenced by the fact that they did not have any [evidence]. I feel that legally and morally it was wrong to put Adam and his family through this trial and there needs to be a stricter standard for prosecutors. I have seen far too many prosecutors knowingly push forward to try and convict someone they simply know to be innocent. I would be inclined to support a law that would allow prosecutors to be charged for attempting to convict an apparently innocent man. It happens much too often in this so-called "free" and "just" country. Attorneys will tell you it is how our legal system works and it is necessary that it works this way, but I wholeheartedly disagree. Every single day in this country, prosecutors get up in front of judge and jury and completely fabricate lies, lies which they know to be lies. I don't care how it is justified, it is simply wrong.

That all maybe true but it was Adam himself on the 911 call that told 911 she had marks on her neck. That was before first responders had a chance to touch her.

Not that it makes him guilty, I'm just saying.

Does anyone have any idea how far they got today? I watched the entire 6 hours from this morning and it seemed like the judge was ready to finish the closing statements today, but it was already 3pm. I do not know if In Session continued coverage beyond that or if they will simply pick it back up in the morning.

I have been riveted to this case for a week. This is not something I usually spend my time on, but the incredibly unethical and extremely aggressive prosecutors really caught my attention. They should have dropped the charges long ago.

dizzychick said:

I would need a dead body to practice on LOL I dont know what kind of marks you can make with no blood flow, you need blood pulsing throuh the veins to make a bruise. I think the state said yellow marks or grey marks are possible after death but red/blue marks are bruising from pressure on skin that has blood flow.

I really think he got mad at her either cause she went out and they got into a fight or he went out after she did and a fight ensued later. People can snap and do things w//o a bad home life. I think it happened in a fit of rage but only the jury's opinion is what matters now, like I said im glad im not them that would be a hard job.

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I heard them say that but I dont believe that ,as I know purplish marks appear on dead people due to researching decomposition and some of the tell tail signs body position etc..are redish purple marks not really bruising amoung other things. I guess he calls it just enough to be truthful but it is misleading.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10736761

I did not see if the EMT workers put a neck brace on Lena or hear how they moved her neck but according to the link it is possible to cause bruising after being handled while already deceased.

ArJuna,

The defence was able to finish their closing.

So deliberations start tomorrow? Trying to catch up on what I missed. I've been busy tracking down a killer in Europe. We caught him. :rocker:

Shelby1 said:

I know...there's something about him. Aside from his confidence level....maybe it's the bald head.

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Can't stand him. He's too full of himself and a bully, imo

Peliman said:

That all maybe true but it was Adam himself on the 911 call that told 911 she had marks on her neck. That was before first responders had a chance to touch her.

Not that it makes him guilty, I'm just saying.

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He did say that.

I do think he did it. But really I should know beyond reasonable doubts right?

I reasonably doubt it would take 2 years to charge adam for murder if it was that easy to see Lena died from strangulation.
And if it was I doubt they would only have the small amount of evidence they have which isnt very convincing alone.

If the jury follows the law ,how can they find him guilty ? Did the state meet the burdon of proof?

I dont think they did. They havent proved Adam killed Lena but they have proved the possiblity of a murder.

ArJuna said:

Does anyone have any idea how far they got today? I watched the entire 6 hours from this morning and it seemed like the judge was ready to finish the closing statements today, but it was already 3pm. I do not know if In Session continued coverage beyond that or if they will simply pick it back up in the morning.

I have been riveted to this case for a week. This is not something I usually spend my time on, but the incredibly unethical and extremely aggressive prosecutors really caught my attention. They should have dropped the charges long ago.

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Hi Arjuna, I'm a YNC whose cancer was caught by a very aggressive HM1(FMF). So thanks, "Doc". I agree with you but that 911 call bothers me.

I am riveted to this case, as my mom died at 34 of CHF. She told my dad she was nauseous and having trouble breathing, and died 1 hour later in the ER. The previous year or so, she had fatigue and it was chalked up to being a mom of 4 active kids.

I've been on a jury 4 times (once for a murder) and I must say, I am really struggling with this one. I'm leaning towards NG. And so agree about Mike Brooks!

~n/t~ said:

Can't stand him. He's too full of himself and a bully, imo

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Each to their own. I think he's been a great atty for Adam. The prosecution has been weak, weak and more weak. The investigation was pitiful. I never could vote "guilty" on THIS case if I was a juror. :moo:

Ransom said:

Each to their own. I think he's been a great atty for Adam. The prosecution has been weak, weak and more weak. The investigation was pitiful. I never could vote "guilty" on THIS case if I was a juror. :moo:

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Ransom, I totally agree with you. The prosecution did such a shotty job from the moment they got to the home til now. The Defense Team are awesome.....and ask anyone here who has been watching, I love PIT Bull, Attorney Milian......He is so sharp and on point that if I am ever in need of a defense attorney, I WANT HIM!!!!!! The other DT attorney is also very well spoken......They have really done their work.....

is there no one following the state closing rebuttal?

pcrum12 said:

is there no one following the state closing rebuttal?

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I am watching but hadnt logged on yet.

I am shaking my head at his reading of the law to the jury.

I just am not feeling like he convinced me that Adam put his hands arround Lena's neck and choked her to death. He doesnt even sound convinced of that. He just says Adam killed her by choking her with his hands or whatever he used.

The foam in her mouth puts doubt in it for me altho unlike the jury I missed things in court they did not and I also know Adam was assuced of choking his ex girlfriend. Doesnt mean he did that either. Overall I am a bit conflicted . The law part of me says I havent heard where they presented evidence Adam choked her to death ,with whatever he choked her to death with (their wording)

And I am left with is it a homicide? (I missed the picture of her neck and alot of the testimony about that)

In my opinion his closing is not driving home to me any of the facts they proved in court making me feel like he will be found not guilty.