Conrad Murray trial -Day eight.

oceanblueeyes said:

Hi, legal!

I cant think of a reason why a doctor would pierce the confidentiality of his patient. It was certainly against the law in CA to do so and I will never ever believe MJ gave him permission to tape him in a very vulnerable state. So something really smells about that and it isn't a tuna boat passing by either.:floorlaugh:

Well I am not one who has ever been a conspiracy theorist but I have to admit from day one I have not been able to figure out why a doctor for 20 years could be so downright clueless and stupid. It wasnt just one thing he did.....it was everything he did that just makes no sense. I think this is why the medical community was stunned by his behavior.

IMO

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Simply, arrogance and greed.

Isabelle said:

If Dr. Murray only gave 25 mg Propofol to MJ, he should be able to produce the propofol bottle with the remaining medication and that would be his proof, but he can't because he didn't do that. He gave the entire bottle via gravity flow and combined with the load of benzos, the total drug effect killed Michael Jackson.

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:floorlaugh: Dont ya know Isa.....the DT is going to say that while MJ was on his walkabout he had time to use the propofol bottle and then hide it never to be seen again.

After all to the DT MJ is superhuman already and can do amazing things in two minutes top that would take normal folks an hour to do!:floorlaugh:

oceanblueeyes said:

Hi there my friend!

Ephedrine was found in his urine but only a trace amount. So little of it found they could not quantify it. None of it found anywhere else in his system though.

The tox expert said that he could have taken it up 72 hours before he died. They found no undissolved pills in his stomach. Only dark fluid.

Murray had ordered a ephedrine concoction. It wasnt full ephedrine. It had other ingredients too. I cant remember what they are now. Aspirin I think was one ingredient.

But it does show how carelessly Murray was with his patient's life. The energy boost would also make it harder for MJ to sleep at night.

This guy was just doing this willy nilly using MJ as a guinea pig while experimenting.

Appalling.

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Hi Ocean and thank you for clarifying!

It is my understanding that straight ephedrine is highly regulated by the FDA and for years it has also been sold in combination with other ingredients in one pill. Perhaps that is what Murray had gotten especially if it was through a mail-order "pharmacy".

And yes, the energy boost would have made it even harder for MJ to sleep, therefore the need for higher dosages of sleeping aids, or in this case, the anesthetic. This is no way to practice medicine and never should have been administered by a licensed medical doctor.

MOO

octobermoon said:

Jean C. said the bottle with CM's fingerprint is the one that was in the iv bag!!

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Well, isn't that special??!!!

As I had posted earlier, he was putting a little doggy bag together to take home and burn or bury or throw in a dumpster on the way. The slitted IV bag with the Propofol vial in it didn't look too dayam good, did it, Conrad? Hard to explain. Verrrrrry unprofessional, I must say.

Yes, remember he was shouting orders to Alvarez to put this in the blue bag and that in the other (black?) bag. But he had to take the ambulance ride. Oops. So I guess he threw the really bad stuff in the closet with plans to come back & get it. Oh well, the best plans.....

O/T -- The "closet" looks like the suits and coats room in the Brooks Bothers store here in Raleigh -- but bigger. Mahogany everywhere. I have never.
(My son worked there a couple of summers while he was home from college -- I am not a frequent customer!!!)

borndem said:

Well, isn't that special??!!!

As I had posted earlier, he was putting a little doggy bag together to take home and burn or bury or throw in a dumpster on the way. The slitted IV bag with the Propofol vial in it didn't look too dayam good, did it, Conrad? Hard to explain. Verrrrrry unprofessional, I must say.

Yes, remember he was shouting orders to Alvarez to put this in the blue bag and that in the other (black?) bag. But he had to take the ambulance ride. Oops. So I guess he threw the really bad stuff in the closet with plans to come back & get it. Oh well, the best plans.....

O/T -- The "closet" looks like the suits and coats room in the Brooks Bothers store here in Raleigh -- but bigger. Mahogany everywhere. I have never.
(My son worked there a couple of summers while he was home from college -- I am not a frequent customer!!!)

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A sidenote. I think Sean Connery use to live in the Holmby mansion.

IMO

Have the results from the urine that was in the condom cat been disclosed yet? I've been speed viewing the trial and may have missed it. It took a lot to knock MJ out. I thought it took a lot to knock me out. MJ definitely had me beat by mega mg.

legalmania said:

Have the results from the urine that was in the condom cat been disclosed yet? I've been speed viewing the trial and may have missed it. It took a lot to knock MJ out. I thought it took a lot to knock me out. MJ definitely had me beat by mega mg.

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I'm not sure it took alot to knock MJ out it just took alot to KEEP him out. I think from the time he got his first hit of propofol when he went to bed that night he never woke up again and the propofol and benzo's were free flowing all night long to keep him that way... p.s I don't have the answer to your original question about the urine..sorry!

Isabelle said:

And, a Saline bag is not easily cut. May have used a blade to slash it open.

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On the night stand next to the bed you can see a huge kitchen knife/steak knife with a black handle.

octobermoon said:

LOL, I only know anything that ends in "pam" is a seditive. DH was put on them to get used to his Bi-pap he had to wear to breathe.

ephedrine is for weight loss isn't it... off to google

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Yes, ephedrine is for weight loss, appetite control (if MJ took much of this, it's no wonder he only weighed 136 pounds, bless him), and as a stimulant.

Thundar said:

Yah, no should not have been in there if this is true, "This medication reverses the sedative effects of certain medications. It is used to counteract effects of certain anesthetics. It may also be used in the treatment of drug overdose." Kind of defeats the purpose of the propofol.

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Makes no sense to me, either, unless DrM was trying to bring him out of his sleep. He could have given him some near the time MJ was supposed to wake up. (This is a real shot in the dark, since I am, and never was, a chemistry guru.) Poor, poor MJ. What a jerk DrM is.


BTW, where did the good doctor go to undergrad and med school? Do his residencies? Anyone know? Sure would love so see his C.V.

Here's an interesting read that shows a brief bio of DrM and also mentions the MJ relationship and death details....

Maybe not everyone had read it....

http://www.biography.com/people/dr-conrad-murray-481814

Saw just a few tidbits of case, but did the prosecution prove somehow in court how one of the drugs in MJ's system killed him before the other? How did all of these drugs interact?

Is it true that there was a needle found on the floor and the investigator picked it up with bare hand and moved it to take a pic? What was the ingredient of that needle? Or was it a drug vial or both?

borndem said:

Makes no sense to me, either, unless DrM was trying to bring him out of his sleep. He could have given him some near the time MJ was supposed to wake up. (This is a real shot in the dark, since I am, and never was, a chemistry guru.) Poor, poor MJ. What a jerk DrM is.


BTW , where did the good doctor go to undergrad and med school? Do his residencies? Anyone know? Sure would love so see his C.V.

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For the last 10 months my sister has spent time (a week here, a couple days there, up to three weeks at a time) on and off at Loma Linda Hospital.
I have spent enough time there now (during day and night shifts) that me and the nurses know each other on a first-name basis.

I've had lengthy conversations with some of the nurses who are around my age and are/were just as devastated over MJ's death as I was/am.
I have been told by several nurses that Murray spent time at Loma Linda University Hospital completing his residency.

Two things: .
1. Those nurses I've spoken with about Murray were Not impressed with him back then.
2. Seeing what I've seen on a 24 hours basis sometimes a couple days straight, in the oncology ward, I am not impressed with LL University Hospital.
Remember: IMOO

AuburnSchnauzer said:

Saw just a few tidbits of case, but did the prosecution prove somehow in court how one of the drugs in MJ's system killed him before the other? How did all of these drugs interact?

Is it true that there was a needle found on the floor and the investigator picked it up with bare hand and moved it to take a pic? What was the ingredient of that needle? Or was it a drug vial or both?

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Cause of death was propofol poisoning. Mode of death was homicide, because propofol is quick acting iv drug and no individual could give themselves enough for death alone. There is a summary in this thread of the drugs in MJs system at death. The interaction of the drugs apparently was death. The coroners investigator left a thumb print on a syringe. Didn't know how her thumbprint got there. She removed the propofol bottle from the saline bag before she took the picture of the two so there is no picture of the propofol bottle in the saline bag for evidence, just an investigator and a security guard that testified to seeing it that way. I am not sure what drugs were in the syringe with the thumb print.

Pics from tmz.com of the meds found in the bedroom, don't know if this is all of them or not as I could not watch that part of trial.

One thing was loud and clear to me with yesterday's testimony. Something does not make sense.

The defense would have the jury believe that MJ was this rabid drug addict but frankly the evidence entered doesn't show that at all.

I think just like everything to do with MJ it was blown way out of proportion. A full blown addict will take everything and anything they can get their hands on especially if it is right there in their home for the taking. So him being a drug addict at the time is a bunch of baloney, imo. I don't think he even wanted the other drug cocktail that Murray decided to give him. He just only wanted the propofol so he could think he had slept, imo.

Bottle after bottle of drugs were found in abundance at the Holmby Mansion and so many of them had quite a few pills in the bottle. Some meds were over a year old or more. What addict leaves the drugs alone that they supposedly crave?:banghead:

Sometimes I think it gets lost that MJ was a 50 year old man who would have aches and pains and medical problems just like any person his age would. I imagine some of our medicine chests are also filled with drugs we may have needed for some kind of illness or sickness. But if MJ has it then of course it is spun the only reason for it is to feed the drug addiction. It seems some expect MJ to have been totally healthy without ever needing a real doctors care for certain medically necessary things.

Why would a saline bag have a slit (cut) in it if not to place something inside of it? That bottle has CMs fingerprint. That is the bottle of propofol CM gave him and is the homicide weapon.

So while the defense is all about getting the jurors distracted with insignificant things I certainly hope the real evidence is not getting lost in the smoke and mirrors of the defense.

IMO

Mygirlsadie said:

On the night stand next to the bed you can see a huge kitchen knife/steak knife with a black handle.

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Wonder if it was picked up as evidence?

I haven't been able to determine whether the cut in the saline bag is a smooth or rough edged one.

ocean;

I agree there is no way the old meds would still be there if he was truly addicted at the time of death. Empty old bottles maybe, but not ones with anything remaining in them. Just known to many people with addictions, sad really.

I would think a true addict would have taken all of the drugs that they thought would give them a 'high'. There would be no full or partially full bottles of pills in the home, unless they were hidden (hoarding). Whatever happened to MJ has Conrad Murray's name all over it.

21merc7 said:

ocean;

I agree there is no way the old meds would still be there if he was truly addicted at the time of death. Empty old bottles maybe, but not ones with anything remaining in them. Just known to many people with addictions, sad really.

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Exactly. That is like putting booze in a home with an alcoholic.

And the famous words of JVM "An addict will drink shoe polish!............