17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #10

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Ok, I get that. I would have gotten A lawyer too.
I'm just wondering why a civil rights attorney. Why not a criminal attorney?
That's my point and my question.

Was it JUST because TM was a black male and GZ wasn't?

Any guesses?

Not really because of race, the parents were already informed no criminal charges were filed, so why fight with a criminal attorney?

Civil rights are the protections and privileges of personal power and rights given to all citizens by law. Civil rights are distinguished from "human rights" or "natural rights," also sometimes called "our God-given rights"

Civil rights may have been the alternative to a non-criminal case? not sure on the law of that one, but we are all protected by civil rights
 
Maybe we need to ask the question of how people would feel about shooting someone caught in the act of burglary. If someone sees a guy trying to break into a neighbor's home, and it's clear and obvious that it is a burglary in progress, would it be ok to shoot that guy? I know it's not legal, but I suspect that a lot of people feel like it's right to do, anyway, that maybe it should be legal, or at least it should be dealt with leniently.

Because otherwise the only reason it would matter whether Trayvon were a criminal is if it means you believe he would proactively attack someone watching him. Indeed, if there is proof that it is likely Travyon would or did deliberately attack GZ (came up behind him, or ran at him and began beating him), then it is relevant in determining whether GZ was in the right. Even if GZ was following him, deliberately attacking GZ would not be called for and GZ would be in the right to shoot in self-defense, IMO.

But unless Trayvon did deliberately attack him, as opposed to responding to a verbal or physical threat by GZ, it does not matter if he had done 100 burglaries before that night. We don't have the "he needed killin" defense.

All JMO.

If I saw someone breaking into my neighbor's house and had a gun handy - no, I probably wouldn't shoot. But I would certainly aim that sucker at the robber and scream "STOP - I HAVE A GUN'. At that point, robber turns and sees the gun on him. He would either 1) try to getin through the window; 2) reach for his gun (if he has one) or 3) throw his hands up.

IF 1
I'm still not sure I would shoot. He is now contained inside the house - it would depend on who else was in the house.

2 - well then all hello is going to break loost and I would look to duck behind any stable, heavy object closest to me.

3) Hold him at gunpoint - order him to the ground, face down - arms out to side. Call 911 - if I hadn't or someone else hadn't by then.


You see - just because you carry a gun and can use it - doesn't really mean you SHOOT at anyone. Getting someone a gun point is enough. Who is going to be stupid enough to do anything rash when they have a gun pointed directly at them?

Its the pulling the trigger choice that GZ made. Unless it was a fight over the gun with the gun between them - there wasn't a reason for the trigger to be pulled - especially if you can get the attacker held at gunpoint.

That's why cops are cops. They are trained to do this. Cops don't always just shoot - and they don't want to shoot. Having a gun trained on a suspect, most times, is enough to be able to take that suspect into custody.



JMHO
 
Why is there a need to defend what this family has done after their son has died. TM is dead...no one in his family, any of his friends, his gf, no one he knew killed him? Sometimes there is a loss of focus, unless I missed something I don't know????? jmo

You don't have to defend them.

I'm just asking a question.

Why a civil rights attorney? On day 2.

That just seems odd to me.
 
Because they weren't the criminals that needed to be defended for committing a crime?

Criminal attorneys are criminal defense attorneys, why would a victim call a criminal attorney to help and represent "them" and their son who was the victim? :waitasec:

I didn't say a criminal DEFENSE attorney.

An attorney that deals with crimes. Not civil rights issues.
 
If I saw someone breaking into my neighbor's house and had a gun handy - no, I probably wouldn't shoot. But I would certainly aim that sucker at the robber and scream "STOP - I HAVE A GUN'. At that point, robber turns and sees the gun on him. He would either 1) try to getin through the window; 2) reach for his gun (if he has one) or 3) throw his hands up.

IF 1
I'm still not sure I would shoot. He is now contained inside the house - it would depend on who else was in the house.

2 - well then all hello is going to break loost and I would look to duck behind any stable, heavy object closest to me.

3) Hold him at gunpoint - order him to the ground, face down - arms out to side. Call 911 - if I hadn't or someone else hadn't by then.


You see - just because you carry a gun and can use it - doesn't really mean you SHOOT at anyone. Getting someone a gun point is enough. Who is going to be stupid enough to do anything rash when they have a gun pointed directly at them?

Its the pulling the trigger choice that GZ made. Unless it was a fight over the gun with the gun between them - there wasn't a reason for the trigger to be pulled - especially if you can get the attacker held at gunpoint.

That's why cops are cops. They are trained to do this. Cops don't always just shoot - and they don't want to shoot. Having a gun trained on a suspect, most times, is enough to be able to take that suspect into custody.



JMHO
And then you could potentially go to jail for assault with a deadly weapon, because you obviously didn't fear for your life enough to escalate to deadly force. Otherwise you would have shot him. JMO
 
I wholeheartedly agree. The photos at his mom's birthday party show such a handsome boy who loved his family. The picture on the horse made me smile but the pictures that I liked the most were the ones where he was dressed for the prom (that's what he had labeled). He was in a tux with a light green shirt. He looked very dapper. It's very heartbreaking still for me to think how close he was to safety when he was gunned down and brutally murdered.


~jmo~

I have seen some five year olds that could out cuss a sailor :(
 
Not really because of race, the parents were already informed no criminal charges were filed, so why fight with a criminal attorney?

Civil rights are the protections and privileges of personal power and rights given to all citizens by law. Civil rights are distinguished from "human rights" or "natural rights," also sometimes called "our God-given rights"

Civil rights may have been the alternative to a non-criminal case? not sure on the law of that one, but we are all protected by civil rights

I wonder if JJ, AS and the Black Panthers would have my back in a civil case.
Makes you wonder.
 
I'm just wondering why a civil rights attorney. Why not a criminal attorney?
That's my point and my question.

Was it JUST because TM was a black male and GZ wasn't?

Any guesses?



No, it was because TM did not require a criminal attorney as he was not accused or suspected of committing a crime. People don't hire attorneys to prosecute criminal cases -- prosecutors do that.

A civil rights attorney was hired because it can be argued that their son's civil rights will not have been respected if his homicide is not investigated.
 
A more interesting question, IMO, is why did the family feel they needed a civil rights attorney? Hmmm...

Here is why...
A civil right is an enforceable right or privilege, which if interfered with by another gives rise to an action for injury. Examples of civil rights are freedom of speech, press, assembly, the right to vote, freedom from involuntary servitude, and the right to equality in public places.

Learning there son was shot and killed while walking home from 7 eleven and NO ARREST WAS MADE, turned this case into a civil rights case. Trayvon was fataly injured. Trayvon had every right to be in the neighborhood. GZ interfered with that right due to his vigilante behavior.

JMHO...
 
Ok, I get that. I would have gotten A lawyer too.
I'm just wondering why a civil rights attorney. Why not a criminal attorney?
That's my point and my question.

Was it JUST because TM was a black male and GZ wasn't?

Any guesses?

I agree with your question completely.
YES they did need a great criminal attorney.
not a civil rights one. :moo:
 
I am not sure all kids end up with a blemish for drinking etc...by the age of 17.
I do not live under a rock and the kids I see for the most part... have never ever been dismissed from school one day. Some have, and frankly they should have been.
While TM had a right to walk home. There is reason for GZ to wonder...
Who is this unfamiliar boy out there - in light of 8 robberies in the community.
I would also be thinking Why is anyone out there in the rain? To get an Ice tea? hmmm :moo:

Then there are - people dredging up GZs history from 2005....
FAIR GAME SAID:
Lets find out the character of this boy too:
And we find 3 suspensions one of which was finding ladies jewelry and a screw driver in his locker.
FROM THIS MY ASSESSMENT IS:
Maybe GZ had perfect premonition? Just maybe? and maybe he did size him up right? WE DO NOT KNOW WE WILL NEVER KNOW.


The 911 guy said "We do not need you to do that" which is not an order at all. GZ was overzealous, no doubt. I am not taking a side.
I want to see a real investigation.

This is what I mean when I ask whether people feel it should be ok to shoot a burglar. Even if Trayvon WAS a burglar, for 100% sure, that is not the question here.

The question is whether GZ initiated the assault. Did he touch Trayvon first?

But even if he didn't touch Trayvon first, the various 911 calls and witness reports would seem to support the idea that he did initiate the confrontation verbally, at least.

If he touched Trayvon first, then he cannot claim self-defense. If he started the altercation by verbally confronting or threatening Trayvon, he is not legally responsible, but he is, IMO, morally responsible for Trayvon's death.

It doesn't matter if Trayvon was a known burglar with a record a mile long, or if GZ was a known nut with a power complex, or vice versa. The only thing that would make a difference to me would be if Trayvon intentionally attacked GZ, for instance because he didn't like GZ following him.

All MOO.
 
What keeps glaring at me (as a parent) is the fact that Zimmerman had to exit his vehicle, in the rain, in order to follow TM into what is essentially an alley when GZ could and should have stayed in the sheltered safety of his vehicle while on the phone with 911. IMHO - Getting out of the vehicle in the rain with a gun was a very conscious decision on the part of GZ as he wasn't going to let TM "get away". JMO
 
Trayvon Martin case: Mayor says police resisted release of 911 tapes

SANFORD, Florida -- The mayor of the city where Trayvon Martin was killed says he overruled police and prosecutors who opposed the release of tapes of 911 calls, telling them: “We're not here to hide anything.”

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...yor-says-police-resisted-release-of-911-tapes
Lucky for Trayvon that Norton Bonaparte, Jr. learned his lesson about 'transparency' when he was fired as City Manager of Topeka in early 2011 for allegedly: "not being open about an incident where a city employee used a *advertiser censored* chat line while on the job. Alcala also questioned the way Bonaparte handled an alleged theft of scrap metal by city employees from a work site."

Otherwise, I think Lee would still be Chief of Police.

Here is an article: http://www.wibw.com/home/headlines/119436399.html
 
Heads up! We're gonna be opening up a new thread in just a bit.

Jump on the link below, please. Locking up this thread.


[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167357"]Trayvon Martin Thread #11[/ame]
 
Lucky for Trayvon that Norton Bonaparte, Jr. learned his lesson about 'transparency' when he was fired as City Manager of Topeka in early 2011 for allegedly: "not being open about an incident where a city employee used a *advertiser censored* chat line while on the job. Alcala also questioned the way Bonaparte handled an alleged theft of scrap metal by city employees from a work site."

Otherwise, I think Lee would still be Chief of Police.

Here is an article: http://www.wibw.com/home/headlines/119436399.html

I can't remember which program he was on last night but boy he sure had a hard time conveying what he was trying to say and answering their questions.

~jmo~
 
Here is why...
A civil right is an enforceable right or privilege, which if interfered with by another gives rise to an action for injury. Examples of civil rights are freedom of speech, press, assembly, the right to vote, freedom from involuntary servitude, and the right to equality in public places.

Learning there son was shot and killed while walking home from 7 eleven and NO ARREST WAS MADE, turned this case into a civil rights case. Trayvon was fataly injured. Trayvon had every right to be in the neighborhood. GZ interfered with that right due to his vigilante behavior.JMHO...
LAST BBM so I made it red

TM had every right to be walking home is correct.
GZ interfering with it as a vigilante is your opinion
This does not make it a civil right case.
 
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