17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #26

[cityslick]

I don't know, I thought he has a constitutional right to speedy trial?

F
http://www.criminaldefenseattorneytampa.com/FloridaDefenses/SpeedyTrial.aspx

MOM may had been speaking more from the DT's standpoint than GZ himself.

Requesting a speedy trial is not always in the defendant's best interest because often the defense needs additional time to be throughly prepared for pre-trial motions and trial.

 

[cityslick]

I LOVED Milli Vanilli!! I don't care if they lip synched! :floorlaugh:

O/T

It was a great album. It took a while to get over the disappointment when they were outed. Also what got me watching MTV back when MTV actually playing music videos.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Cues up 'Blame it on the Rain' by Milli Vanilli.

You know what makes me laugh, as a Floridian?? When I'm at the parks in Orlando and people wear poncho's on water rides? I'm like WHAT?? What's the point in that? You'll dry in ten minutes from May-Oct. Also, I went to the Blue Man Group concert and I really wanted front seats, but they were sold out, and everyone was wearing poncho's because they didn't want to get paint on themselves? That's part of the experience?

It just makes no sense to me! Enjoy life. Enjoy rain. Enjoy it all... as we don't live forever.

Walking/Running/Working out in the rain is part of life. There is nothing wrong or out of the ordinary by doing any of these things.

MOO

 

[Adrienne37]

Long time coming: Trayvon’s law
For the first time in a decade, Congress holds a hearing on anti-profiling legislation

The name of Trayvon Martin was invoked early and often at a Capitol Hill hearing on federal anti-profiling laws Tuesday as supporters hope the furor over the shooting of Florida teenage will prompt Congress take up a legislation that has languished since 2001.

“The senseless death of this innocent young man should be a wake up call,” said Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois, a co-sponsor of legislation which would expand current federal law enforcement guidelines against profiling and mandate training on racial profiling at all federal law enforcement agencies.

http://www.salon.com/2012/04/18/long_time_coming_trayvons_law/singleton/

 

[rotterdam]

I've lived in Florida that long too and I see people everyday working out in the rain, walking in the rain, running errands in the rain, I personally like to dance in the rain and play in the rain -- as long as it isn't lightening. Rain isn't going to kill you -- you're not going to melt. I gave up on umbrellas years ago because I get just as soaked with them --- I will wear a hoodie over my head if it's raining too hard though.

I understand that you personally don't like to get wet, but a lot of people don't mind getting wet. I've been to football games in Tampa in Sept/Oct and we pray for it to rain it is so hot! I've never in my life used a poncho! Let me get wet!

I lived in FL for 9 years and almost daily rain in the summer is a given. And it always starts when you are ready to leave work. Hard to avoid not getting wet. And those Fl thunderstorms. Just awesome.

 

[RANCH]

I tried to read a couple of Orlando Sentinel articles that were linked and got a pop up saying that I've reached my allowance of free articles. They want me to pay $12.99 for an initial 5 week membership. Well I'm not paying. I guess I'll have to ask for assistance on any of their story's.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/about/membership/

 

[Nana46]

You know what makes me laugh, as a Floridian?? When I'm at the parks in Orlando and people wear poncho's on water rides? I'm like WHAT?? What's the point in that? You'll dry in ten minutes from May-Oct. Also, I went to the Blue Man Group concert and I really wanted front seats, but they were sold out, and everyone was wearing poncho's because they didn't want to get paint on themselves? That's part of the experience?

It just makes no sense to me! Enjoy life. Enjoy rain. Enjoy it all... as we don't live forever.

Walking/Running/Working out in the rain is part of life. There is nothing wrong or out of the ordinary by doing any of these things.

MOO

Blue Man Group rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rocker::woohoo:

(
Sorry, I could not help myself,lol

 

[csziggy]

BBM

We're not aware of how many times it's saved a victim from arrest and prosecution, well, because they weren't arrested or prosecuted.

As for the BBM, I have to revert back to:



The Christine Grace cahttp://www.websleuths.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=7799487se was detailed in a journal article I read for part of a literary review I did for CJ... I believe it's called "Confronting Our Fear" and discusses battered woman syndrome and self-defense laws in Vermont.

Broxie was not arrested until an investigation was completed a year later. She was afforded some benefits of the SYG law. It was the lack of speedy trial that was the worst part about the case.

Hair was an example of a case that went through the works, even why SYG was on the books. It was a weird case, and the judicial process was carried out.

When the laws are actually applied, the victims are protected on both sides. There are methods codified in law by which victims need not be made victims any further, and there are methods by which the police can bring an individual to justice. Even before this law, it was still at the discretion of the police to arrest or not arrest, and the prosecutor to press charges or not. This law simply prohibits the mere use of force from being used as probable cause to arrest a potential victim. There has to be probable cause to believe that the use of force was also unlawful before the subject can be arrested. If the police are negligent in their investigation, that's on the police. It's not the fault of the law. Just because something has the potential to be abused does not mean that it is being abused, nor that victims should be stripped of basic rights because the law may be abused.

JMO

One thing I thought about after I signed off last night was that the Christine Grace case was before battered women were allowed to protect themselves. It took cases like the one dramatized in the movie "The Burning Bed" before women were considered credible when they complained to police about being battered and of course, in the Marissa Alexander we see that battered women are still made victims by the police and prosecutors as well as by the men who attack them.

I'm old enough I have seen the improvement in women's situations, but unfortunately I am old enough that I am now seeing a back-sliding where women are back to being blamed for being victims. It's depressing.

The Ernestine Broxsie is local to me and I have no doubt that race and gender both played a part in that case. Having been attacked by a renter and having that same law enforcement agency blow it off as a "landlord-tenant dispute" makes me think that some of that attitude contributed. Since when does serving a tenant eviction papers allow him to attack his landlady with impunity?

I think we'll have to agree to disagree - I believe that the SYG laws are overstepping what is needed. Tweaking the time tested and existing 'castle' and self defense law to add the provisions to protect people who were only protecting themselves and their property would have been sufficient in my opinion. SYG went too far beyond that and I don't think it will stand extensive court reviews.

But I am not a lawyer or in law enforcement, just someone whose lived long enough to get disgusted with the system and how legislators are willing to pass anything that they get enough contributions to support.

JMO, IMO, etc.

 

[Adrienne37]

You know what makes me laugh, as a Floridian?? When I'm at the parks in Orlando and people wear poncho's on water rides? I'm like WHAT?? What's the point in that? You'll dry in ten minutes from May-Oct. Also, I went to the Blue Man Group concert and I really wanted front seats, but they were sold out, and everyone was wearing poncho's because they didn't want to get paint on themselves? That's part of the experience?

It just makes no sense to me! Enjoy life. Enjoy rain. Enjoy it all... as we don't live forever.

Walking/Running/Working out in the rain is part of life. There is nothing wrong or out of the ordinary by doing any of these things.

MOO

I know what you mean Lola. I've walked around Disney so many times soaking wet and sometimes when the temperature was in the 90s, we would pray for rain just to cool off. Incidentally, we are expecting rain in north Florida this afternoon, it will probably start right at the time I'm leaving to get my daughter from school and guess what, I'll trudge right on out right in the middle of it.


~jmo~

 

[LolaMoon08]

And I used to live in Florida years ago.
ITA - I did live in Miam a long time ago and may do it again.
It does not rain that much or that often that people have to be out in the rain.
besides, I used my car all the time and did not get wet if I had to go out in the rain. (was not that often - that I HAD to go in the rain)

I personally would never put my life on hold because it is raining? There is no way that I would sit in my house and just watch the day waste away. If I have something to do... I will do it. If I want to go out to the beach... rain won't stop me. If I want to go to the store... rain won't stop me. If I want to get on a rollercoaster in Orlando and the ride is still open even though it is raining... I will go on that rollercoaster in the rain (I did the Manta in the rain once and it was amazing!!).

Rain is rain. It's water. We drink water. We bathe in water. We swim in water.

MOO

ETA: I even went outside and played/danced outside during Hurricane Charley... which was very cool!

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Isn't it against his client's best interests?
Why would his client, an innocent man who has a very good chance of being declared not guilty by the jury because he was only standing his ground and acting in self defense, want to wait two years for the court to say so and live under a cloud for all that time?

Hi Donjeta!
GZ will most likely live under a cloud for the rest of his life regardless if he is found guilty or aquitted, IMO.

Mr wm and I discussed this the night before last. He told me about a man in MT who shot a teen. The teen had ran out of gas, walked to the man's house to ask for a ride to get gas or call someone but noone came to the door. The man's truck was parked with the keys in the ignition so the teen left a note on the man's door that he borrowed his truck to go get gas. The man was so angry that he shot the teen dead upon returning his truck. The man was aquitted but Mr. wm says that the man is shunned by the townsfolk.
NOt that it is relevant to this case at all but I thought it interesting enough to share.

moo

wm

 

[Concerned Papa]

Where did the encounter start (asking him what he was doing there)?

We know quite a bit about GZ's story for that evening and I don't think this will take any "high tech" sleuthing to figure out using ONLY George Zimmerman's words. From the 911 call:

(1)

Zimmerman:

He’s running. [2:08]

911 dispatcher:

He’s running? Which way is he running?

Zimmerman:

Down toward the other entrance of the neighborhood. [2:14]

911 dispatcher:

OK, which entrance is that he’s headed towards?

Zimmerman:

The back entrance.

(a) What have we learned so far? That George says Trayvon started running down towards the back entrance, right?

(2)

911 dispatcher:

Are you following him? [2:24]

Zimmerman:

Yeah. [2:25]

911 dispatcher:

OK.

We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]

Zimmerman:

OK. [2:28]

(b) What did we additionally learn? That George said he was following him and that the dispatcher advised him not to do that, right?

(3)

911 dispatcher:

Alright, where are you going to meet with them at?

Zimmerman:

Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then go past the mailboxes you’ll see my truck. [3:10]

911 dispatcher:

Alright, what address are you parked in front of? [3:21]

Zimmerman:

Um, I don’t know. It’s a cut-through so I don’t know the address. [3:25]

(c) What nuggets did George add to our storehouse of facts? That if responding LE goes straight past the clubhouse and makes a left and then goes past the mailboxes they'll see George's truck, parked at a "cut through", right?

Let's consider what George has told us with a+b+c, shall we?

Where in this entire development could George's truck be parked and:

- Be able to see TM start running "down towards the back entrance",

PLUS

- Be in full view of responding LE officers after going past the mail boxes,

PLUS

- Be parked at a "cut through"?

I respectively submit that location is as shown on this image:

Now as to what George told us about that night through the leaked Orlando Sentinel article regarding his statements to LE:

Zimmerman got out of his SUV to follow Trayvon on foot.

When a dispatch employee asked Zimmerman if he was following the 17-year-old, Zimmerman said yes.

The dispatcher told Zimmerman he did not need to do that.

There is about a one-minute gap during which police say they're not sure what happened.

Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police.

Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.

-We know from the 911 call that George walked, jogged, or ran for 18 seconds as he followed TM prior to being told not to do that.

-Then LE tells us there is a 1 minute gap in their understanding of what happened.

-We also know through the leaked Sentinel article that George told LE that TM approached him from the left rear as he was walking back to his truck.

Considering George's claim of TM having approached him from his left rear as he traveled back to his vehicle, it's not a giant conclusion to draw that this most likely happened as he walked the sidewalk from west to east near its intersection with the "back sidewalk".

Therefore your question of:

Where did the encounter start?

was answered by George the same as his father's story. George AND his father are saying the alleged attack happened near the intersection of the two sidewalks. The point I've been repeatedly bringing to bear is that with the known time references afforded us by the 911 call, the attack coming after the relatively short distances traveled in this tale could not possibly be true.

Robert Zimmerman said NOTHING contradictory to George's known statements and primarily only filled in the "missing" gap of 1 minute referenced by SPD.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager

 

[cityslick]

You know what makes me laugh, as a Floridian?? When I'm at the parks in Orlando and people wear poncho's on water rides? I'm like WHAT?? What's the point in that? You'll dry in ten minutes from May-Oct. Also, I went to the Blue Man Group concert and I really wanted front seats, but they were sold out, and everyone was wearing poncho's because they didn't want to get paint on themselves? That's part of the experience?

It just makes no sense to me! Enjoy life. Enjoy rain. Enjoy it all... as we don't live forever.

Walking/Running/Working out in the rain is part of life. There is nothing wrong or out of the ordinary by doing any of these things.

MOO

Yea when I was at disney earlier in the year we had brought ponchos and was going to wear it on water ride in animal kingdom (cant remember the name) and there were only a few wearing it so I said no. I still got ragged on by the other riders cause I didn't get as wet as they did.

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...on-martin-murder-case-expected-to-step-aside/

A statement issued by court officials Tuesday said Recksiedler will decide what to do no later than Friday.
However, that decision should be made clear Wednesday, when the judge is expected to sign an order taking herself off the case.

 

[francie]

They were talking about GZ brother saying one more hit to the head he would have been wearing diapers.
Hits to the head are never minor, too often people have no idea how sever it can be.
If you follow the conversation it would make sense why I would bring that up.

I just don’t think there’s anything to compare between Natasha’s awful death and George killing Trayvon.

Natasha died from traumatic brain injury; no proof George had head or brain injury. IF he did, why not release medical reports rather than endure such fierce public scrutiny & go into hiding, fearing for his life? imo.

SFD cleared George; they didn’t say he was injured but declined treatment as in Natasha’s case.

Dad/brother claim he was beaten within an inch of being spoon-fed for life but 20 minutes after killing Trayvon was caught on camera walking/talking fine. And there is also no proof that George was confronted or struck by Trayvon, no medical reports exist that would exonerate him or we’d have them in our hot little hands. jmo of course.

:moo:

 

[grammieto5]

The point your missing is that it is not up to GZ to determine if he has sustained enough pounding to cause a head injury. He only has to be in fear of losing his life to use deadly force. I think he will be able to show that a reasonable person, who is being straddled by someone who is "beating him up" according to the witness, would have used deadly force in his situation.

He will probably argue that he has no mode of escape since he was being straddled, and that his choices were to continue to be assulted, or use his firearm.

OK hold on here, I thought it was GZ who straddled Trayvon???? Or are you stating that Trayvon straddled GZ before GZ murdered Trayvon ????

 

[grammieto5]

As a Floridian, we walk/run/dance/play/run errands/ in the rain? It's what we do! If we didn't leave our homes everytime it rained here... we would never get anything done. I see you are a Gator fan, so I can only assume that you have lived in Florida?

Walking in the rain in Florida is like walking in the snow up North.

I've never lived in Florida, I do live in Arizona, and believe me when it rains here I do go out walks. I really see nothing wrong with a 17 year old being out in the rain.

 

[cityslick]

OK hold on here, I thought it was GZ who straddled Trayvon???? Or are you stating that Trayvon straddled GZ before GZ murdered Trayvon ????

I don't think it's been ultimately determined who was straddling who. Two different witnesses give conflicting information.

 

[tlcya]

OK hold on here, I thought it was GZ who straddled Trayvon???? Or are you stating that Trayvon straddled GZ before GZ murdered Trayvon ????

the poster is referring to the alleged claim by GZ that TM was straddling him and beating his (GZ's) head against the sidewalk.

I think. As far as I know there are no independent witnesses to that alleged beating. There are several witnesses to GZ straddling a deceased/just shot TM.

 

[grammieto5]

I wish / hope there is someone who saw the start.
I believe that different people saw different parts of what happened. some only heard it because they were afraid to go to a window and be seen.
I also believe that there were different times that both of them were on the bottom and on the top.
And both of them yelled for help at different times too.
DO I know anything for sure NOP - nobody here does. :moo:

Well we all know for sure Trayvon was murdered and we know for sure GZ was the one who did it.